Brainstorming Grigori Module

[Sephi]

this is added so far. Feel free to make any suggestions.

• Diverse Trait (from TweakMod by Rystic)
• Museum, replaces Pagantemple, gives +1 adventurers GPP (from TweakMod by Rystic)
• Changes to Luonnotar Unit (from MagisterMod)
• When Luonnotar uses enlighten ability, small chance to spawn a new adventurer
• Grigori Units of lvl 6+ can found an adventurers Guild (takes the unit 20 turns)
• Grigori Adventurers Guild sells special Equipment: heroic Armor (resistance to many damage types), heroic weapon (+1 lightning damage, +20% vs. Melee), Spellcasting Guide for Beginners (chance to learn a random tier1 spell)
• Grigori Heroes can achieve Legendary Status
  • When Grigori Hero defeats Worldunit in Battle, gains legendary Status Promotion and new adventurer is spawned in Grigori Capital
  • When Grigori Hero of lvl 15 defeats unit in Battle, gains legendary Status Promotion and medium chance to spawn new adventurer in Grigori Capital
  • legendary Status Promotion allows Hero to create great Museum (normal Hero with unique Equipment can also do this)
  • Construction of a great Museum has small chance to spawn a new Adventurer
  • legendary Status Promotion give one time immortality
  • legendary Status Promotion unlocks special Equipment (none added yet)

 

[Brokenbone]

Sounds interesting!

Additional sources of Adventurer GPP are definitely valuable, as that's one thing you can't pick up by reassigning specialists, and virtually any wonder you pick up is going to "pollute" your GP pool in ways that may detract from adventurer chances. If there were additional ways (even expensive ones) to gain Adventurer "points", that would be something worth considering. Clearly sacrificing a decent unit to create a "points producing" guild is one way, wonder if other sacrifices might make sense. Add a unique piece of equipment to a city with a museum, even temporarily, to boost GPP? Like, park the Orthus Axe in Midgar, people ooh and ah over it, giving a temporary boost while it's there? Possibly "on" a unit as a promotion as opposed to sitting there as a flaming axe icon thingy that some wandering assassin might target.

 

[readercolin]

How about able to settle adventurers after they reach level 10-11 (88xp/101xp IIRC, unless you're using charismatic). This would then provide a few adventurer points (2-3), and possibly the ability to cast a spell in that city named "Call to Arms" which gives you an adventurer with 0 xp. Alternatively, make any level 10 unit, even if they aren't an adventurer be able to settle as one. This gives you the ability to get more adventurer points, but because of the 10-11 xp requirement, you won't be getting one before turn 100 unless you're really getting swarmed (in which case, you probably don't want to settle him).

Another idea would be to take the museum a step further using the cathedral mechanic - with 4 museums you can build a great museum, which gives another 1-2 GPP, and a % boost to GPP's (say a 25% or 50%). Either in addition to this, or instead of this, have the grigori national museum, which gives a 100% boost to GPP's, as well as 2-3 adventurer points, but is a national wonder. This could also have the effect of allowing "Visiting Hero's", which for every hero in the city it gives a %boost to GPP, and/or +1 adventurer points.

If you want something that might work better lore wise, you could use a building like the ancients hall (I forgot the name, it was a jotnar building in FF+, before the jotnar were changed to use the kuriotate mega city idea). This building provided a 5% boost to GPP in the city it was built in, and a 3% boost empire wide, as well as 1 GPP (they used a generic one, that didn't add points to any particular GP). An idea like this could be modified, as the grigori cities are centers of learning, and it could be considered a kind of idea trade type thing.

Another idea on that line would be to change their library to a library of hero's or something similar. This could either add another early adventurer point, or it could add a % boost to GPP.

One last idea would be to take RifE's adventurer system and use that, allowing the player to get adventurers, but also be able to get regular GP. In all honesty, most of the games that I've played that used that sort of system allowed the grigori to play in a much different way, as I was able to fully leverage the philosophical trait, instead of hording my points in an attempt to get more adventurers.

-Colin

 

[Valkrionn]

Obviously I like the adventurer system in RifE.

My original setup mirrored the Scions; A random chance each turn. Didn't fit, and I didn't like it, was just better than the current setup.

The 'new' one makes use of a new variable stored in the DLL for the Player (VERY little DLL work here atm, plan to put it all in the DLL eventually and make it easily moddable but want the entire system 'finished' first), and then python is used to add 'points' each turn. Mirrors the GP system, basically. Displayed very nicely, and everything works great... Just want more buildings that affect it, which I'm planning to add with the upcoming patch.

 

[Jenaelha]

Like Pagan Temple, I hope that museum might add culture%. But perhaps add science% as well. For museums have both cultural and scientific contribution. Definitely happiness (perhaps with the Artifacts resource?)

I'd like the Gregori to pop a Hero upon discovery of Honor.

As an additional source of Adventurer GPP have heroic feats. Great victories in battle produce lump GPP rewards. Defeat Orthus for a reward of X% bonus in GPP points. Defeat a city, or civ for another X% bonus.

Regarding the Diverse Trait, what unit art accompanies the non-Gregori spawns and does it maintain through promotions to new unit types?

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[arstal]

Maybe in addition to the GPP, you get the Adventurer's kid to carry on the legacy.

A lvl 1 adventurer, with random promotions (maybe more bad then good)

 

[Valkrionn]

How would you feel about a new promotion list for Great People? Specifically, Adventurers?

Dean and Thomas.Berubeg have proposed adding a promotion (actually, two, but I would limit it to one) to each adventurer, based on the unit's background. An adventurer who was originally Hippus (Melusine, I think? Not sure on the name) could start with Horselord, for example. Gives them a bit more flavor, and (so long as you don't grant outrageous promotions) shouldn't be too strong.

I'm really considering adding it, believe they still have the list.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I think one thing that could be cool is portraying the way in which people from other civs who have suffered due to religious wars are welcome in the Grigori civ. a crossover between the "immigration" mechanic that USA has in Rhye's and Fall and the good old FFH guild that was all about war victims ( can't remember the name, sorry ) . this would mean that every time a city gets razed, or inquisition used in a foreign city, the Grigori have a hefty chance to get a population increase in one or more of their cities ( possibly depending on the size of the foreign city and religions present in it, and I'd guess razed cities would provide more than inquisitions ), i.e. now-homeless people moving to their civ.

 

[Fafnir13]

No, not a population increase, but refugees. It would work much like manes and angels. The refugees could add to city size, but with the happy limit like the scions. Refugees could also upgrade to military units and would come with appropriate race/civilization promotions
Naturally, the Grigori shouldn't be getting any refugees if they're doing the razing

 

[Ash_Highwind]

Obviously I like the adventurer system in RifE.

My original setup mirrored the Scions; A random chance each turn. Didn't fit, and I didn't like it, was just better than the current setup.

The 'new' one makes use of a new variable stored in the DLL for the Player (VERY little DLL work here atm, plan to put it all in the DLL eventually and make it easily moddable but want the entire system 'finished' first), and then python is used to add 'points' each turn. Mirrors the GP system, basically. Displayed very nicely, and everything works great... Just want more buildings that affect it, which I'm planning to add with the upcoming patch.

In my opinion to choose from greate people or an adventurer is more balanced, as exeample it is still very easy to archieve an Altar victory with the worldspell even if one of your opponents is near any type of win:
Cast the spell if you have build (lets say 3 altars) you dont need much luck you often get enough prophets to build all missing altars and also enough GE to nearly instantly build the final altar. if you remove the adventurers from the list you will get even more GPs [by the way in rife i allways win the altar race with the grigori - with only 6 citys mostly play on large maps]


but back to topic:
Something i like from magisters mod ideas is the reverting of an adventure to go an other route of promoting, but it could be very easy exploitet - so it has to be limited, im thinking of an national wonder witch gives a book/item what ever wich revert the adventurer back to its ground form.
The wonder should spawn a fixed number of those (maybe based on mapsize - standart 3?) that would make some of the units very powerful but if given late in the techtree balanced.
maybe one of the techs wich the grigori nearly never tech as religious law or theology?

Just some Brainstormings

im not sure how to flashout the grigori the way they deserve it, i dont think that 1000 of wonders are the way - maybe work more with the armageddoncounter? like under 50% they can get some bonuses versus disciple units? over 50% they get somethings vs demons and/or angels?
Or they are able to remove religions?(not inquisition something differnet) bonuses when they get rid of holy citys, or the ability to remove even state religions from other civs?
Maybe cooperation bonuses? because its the way of the mortals?

In my opinion are the grigori one of those civs wich try to get rid of the gods/demons/Angels but i never can think of a working way wich is possible to put into the gamemechanik, i dont think that the grigori are a warmonger civ also not a full builder civ maybe they should get some more culture possibilities.

so far Ash

 

[Fafnir13]

In my opinion are the grigori one of those civs wich try to get rid of the gods/demons/Angels but i never can think of a working way wich is possible to put into the gamemechanik, i dont think that the grigori are a warmonger civ also not a full builder civ maybe they should get some more culture possibilities.

Another kind of council might do it. Grigori have to be in the game for it to happen, possibly founded with some wonder. In order to join, must have no state religion and some appropriate tech (trade? Code of Law?). The council would prohibit warring on fellow council members and foster trade, giving bonus routes and similar effects via council declarations. A few ideas:

Closed Borders: Ban on trade with non-members.

Free trade: +X% all trade routes with member civs.

Open Arms: gives non Grigori civs the chance to gain refugees (see idea of mine in previous post), increases Grigori chance to gain refugees.

Underground Railroad(needs a better name): non-member cities with unhappy citizens have a chance of losing decreasing in population and spawning a refugee in the nearest member city. This one's my favorite, but probably the hardest to implement. The number of checks alone....

 

[Jabie]

Research Adventure. Castable only by Adventurer in a city with a Library. Adds a random lair on the map. Takes 2 turns to cast. Each subsequent casting takes an addition turn to cast.

Research Treasure. Castable only by Adventurer in a city with Grigori Tavern, Library and Museum. Costs X gold. Puts a random Treasure Chest somewhere on the map. Takes 2 turns to cast. Each subsequent casting takes an addition turn to cast.

Enlighten. Castable by any Level 4+ Grigori unit. Grigori equivalent of Inqusition. Removes all religions from city.

Grigori Legal Code. Requires 4 Courthouses. Can only be built in a city with a Courthouse. Allows the owner to switch alignment upon construction. +1 Culture, reduces corruption by 10%.

If you do not plan on using them as separate civilisations, you may want to brrow some ideas from the Austrin and Dural in FF / RiFE.

 

[Sephi]

Sounds interesting!

Additional sources of Adventurer GPP are definitely valuable, as that's one thing you can't pick up by reassigning specialists, and virtually any wonder you pick up is going to "pollute" your GP pool in ways that may detract from adventurer chances. If there were additional ways (even expensive ones) to gain Adventurer "points", that would be something worth considering. Clearly sacrificing a decent unit to create a "points producing" guild is one way, wonder if other sacrifices might make sense. Add a unique piece of equipment to a city with a museum, even temporarily, to boost GPP? Like, park the Orthus Axe in Midgar, people ooh and ah over it, giving a temporary boost while it's there? Possibly "on" a unit as a promotion as opposed to sitting there as a flaming axe icon thingy that some wandering assassin might target.

added abilty for Heroes with unique Equipment (orthus axe, items carried by horseman, other heroes) to create a Great Museum.

How about able to settle adventurers after they reach level 10-11 (88xp/101xp IIRC, unless you're using charismatic). This would then provide a few adventurer points (2-3), and possibly the ability to cast a spell in that city named "Call to Arms" which gives you an adventurer with 0 xp. Alternatively, make any level 10 unit, even if they aren't an adventurer be able to settle as one. This gives you the ability to get more adventurer points, but because of the 10-11 xp requirement, you won't be getting one before turn 100 unless you're really getting swarmed (in which case, you probably don't want to settle him).

Another idea would be to take the museum a step further using the cathedral mechanic - with 4 museums you can build a great museum, which gives another 1-2 GPP, and a % boost to GPP's (say a 25% or 50%). Either in addition to this, or instead of this, have the grigori national museum, which gives a 100% boost to GPP's, as well as 2-3 adventurer points, but is a national wonder. This could also have the effect of allowing "Visiting Hero's", which for every hero in the city it gives a %boost to GPP, and/or +1 adventurer points.

added Great Museum that gives another adventurer GPP (and culture+science). Also when constructed has a small chance to spawn another Grigori Adventurer.

Like Pagan Temple, I hope that museum might add culture%. But perhaps add science% as well. For museums have both cultural and scientific contribution. Definitely happiness (perhaps with the Artifacts resource?)

I'd like the Gregori to pop a Hero upon discovery of Honor.

As an additional source of Adventurer GPP have heroic feats. Great victories in battle produce lump GPP rewards. Defeat Orthus for a reward of X% bonus in GPP points. Defeat a city, or civ for another X% bonus.

Regarding the Diverse Trait, what unit art accompanies the non-Gregori spawns and does it maintain through promotions to new unit types?

Thanks for your consideration.

museum adds culture and happiness with marble. Also added a very small science bonus. added defeating a world unit as a heroic feat. Unit Art of Diverse trait works like the dwarves you can get from the dwarves vs. lizards event, which are normal axeman with the dwarf promotion.

How would you feel about a new promotion list for Great People? Specifically, Adventurers?

Dean and Thomas.Berubeg have proposed adding a promotion (actually, two, but I would limit it to one) to each adventurer, based on the unit's background. An adventurer who was originally Hippus (Melusine, I think? Not sure on the name) could start with Horselord, for example. Gives them a bit more flavor, and (so long as you don't grant outrageous promotions) shouldn't be too strong.

I'm really considering adding it, believe they still have the list.

that sounds very interesting

Research Adventure. Castable only by Adventurer in a city with a Library. Adds a random lair on the map. Takes 2 turns to cast. Each subsequent casting takes an addition turn to cast.

Research Treasure. Castable only by Adventurer in a city with Grigori Tavern, Library and Museum. Costs X gold. Puts a random Treasure Chest somewhere on the map. Takes 2 turns to cast. Each subsequent casting takes an addition turn to cast.

Enlighten. Castable by any Level 4+ Grigori unit. Grigori equivalent of Inqusition. Removes all religions from city.

Grigori Legal Code. Requires 4 Courthouses. Can only be built in a city with a Courthouse. Allows the owner to switch alignment upon construction. +1 Culture, reduces corruption by 10%.

If you do not plan on using them as separate civilisations, you may want to brrow some ideas from the Austrin and Dural in FF / RiFE.

added Research Adventure. Enlighten is already in (via Luonnotar from Magister Mod).

added effect to Courthouse: When constructed, small chance to allow agnostic leader Alignment switch.

 

[Medicine_Man_55]

Some suggestions:

1. Instead of the Grigori Museum replacing the Pagan Temple you should make it a unique building that requires Writing to build (the same tech that gives access to the National Epic) -- make the Grigori Museum give +3 science, +4 culture, +15% culture, and +1 adventurer GPP
2. Make the replacement for the Pagan Temple a Heroes Tomb, available at Mysticism -- giving +2 culture, +10% culture, and +1 adventurer GPP
3. Introduce a FFH equivalent of the Hermitage state wonder, perhaps the Great Museum you're discussing in this thread, requiring 4 museums and some mid-game tech -- +100% culture, and +2 adventurer GPP

The reason I suggest attaching + culture modifiers to alot of the new Grigori buildings is to make a potential push for culture victory more viable for the civ. The Grigs really need more viable victory conditions and culture should be one of them; the lack of temple stacking hurts them otherwise.

Reworking the adventurer spawning mechanic is also highly desirable. Tying it to the spawning of adventurers to GPP has a negative impact on how the economic and building aspects of the civilization are played. Always control population, never use specialists, etc. For a civ that is already restricted from using any religions, the Grigori adventurer system goes a long way to making sure that they not only play very differently from any other civ but are also only played one way -- a good thing and a very bad thing.

What would work very well for a new spawning mechanic for adventurers is something like the Great General system from Warlords. A pool of adventurer points that is managed at a national level (rather than city level) and filled up by special structures rather than successful conquest. Such a system is self-regulating to some extent; a large Grigori empire would generate adventurers somewhat faster but would also have more territory to defend.

Anyhow, I hope you'll consider some of this; the fact that the Grigori have basically one way to be played (domestically) is a bit of a problem.

 

[Brokenbone]

Just on the point of Adventurer backgrounds (who is from what culture etc.), I guess the last best place I was able to find ideas on it, lore wise, was here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=283290

Maybe it has been discussed more, elsewhere, and more recently.

I guess it would be challenging to figure out though, who could enjoy what backgrounds if they all start out as "classless" adventurers. All I mean by that is that if you pick a guy with a Hippus background, would you enjoy the Horselord promotion ONLY if you chose to advance him up the Mounted line? Or a Svart might get "Sinister" only if you went up the recon line? A Doviello might get Winterborn no matter what line you chose, just to contrast. Or a Balseraph maybe... mutated? Bannor all start with Guardsman, notwithstanding that some units aren't fit to get that promotion (non melee, non archer)?

Anyhow, a cut and paste from that thread in case it's easier to reference here:

• .

<SNIP>
Adventurers:

1. Branding - Female/Human - Grigori - Spoke with Trenton early in his quest to bring Danalin back into the world about the role of the Gods, Priests and Religions
   • I yearn for a kingdom without gods or kings. Only men and women under none.
2. Melusine - Male/Human - Hippus -
   • Magnadine? A fool. Everyone thinks he's great, just because he can ride a freaking pony. I don't need a horse to kill people, isn't that even more impressive?
3. Sidhelle - Female/Elven - Ljosalfar -
   • "We had trapped the thief in the corridor outside the library. 5th squad was to her left, and 2nd squad to her right. As I called on her to surrender, she reached into her backpack, which was stuffed with stolen spell scrolls, and pulled out a crystal rod. As the squad began shooting, she activated the rod. There was a blinding light and when we could see again, she was gone." --Ilnacht Vivordur, Svaltalfar 2nd Hunter Squad Leader - After action report
4. Carrow the Hunted - Male/Human - Doviello -
   • He is an embittered mistheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in the gods and their agendas as personally dislike them. -- Interviewers notes penned on Carrow's Application for Citizenship
5. Khord Tenhare - Male/Human - Grigori - Known Facts: Lead the War Party which cornered Stephanos, and was then killed by his own men
   • To this day the Grigori travel down the length of the serpent's canyon and offer small tokens to the stone mound at its end. This is a reminder of their own failure, and the screams of Khord Tenhare are said to still echo within the canyons walls.
6. Pinchete - Male/Goblin - Clan of Embers -
   • "...it came at me from the deep wilderness. I cursed my carelessness as it's canines went for my throat. With brute strength did I turn him, look into his eyes and butted him into the darkness" --Recounting of Pinchete's favorite tale, How I Tamed Gral, the Greatest Mount
7. Needles - Male/Human - Grigori -
   • Those idiots at Aeron's Bounty? Inefficient. Wasteful. Overpriced. They're cultists masquerading as assassins. They add pomp and ceremony to what is a very simple job. Me? You pay me, and tell me who you want dead. They end up dead
8. Bahamet the Second - Male/Human - Malakim -
   • Bahamet calls it "subtlety." I call it sitting and chatting with overfed royal dandies until his enemies die of old age. --Panlupan
9. Groo the Wanderer - Male/Human - Doviello - Known: Inspired by a Comic
   • Now Groo does what Groo does best!
10. Cabal Tenhare - Male/Human - Grigori - Known Facts: Head of the Nightwatch for the Junon, slain by Stephanos
    • The streets of Junon were said to be safer during the night than during the day. Cabal Tenhare and his hundreds of pet ravens watched over the sleeping city. If any crime was commited there would be only caws, a flurry of black wings and a black cloud would descend on the criminal.
11. Panlupan - Female/Human - Lanun -
    • "Her idea of tact is toasting the King before setting his palace on fire." --Bahamet the Second
12. Volanna - Female/Elven - Svartalfar -
    • The Bannor always brag about how their devotion to Junil allows them to ignore pain and other irritants... I've found this 'gift' allows my poisons to go unnoticed till it is too late for even the most proficent Confessors to save them
13. Father Jeon - Male/Human - Bannor -
    • I've come to understand a certain pattern in this life. The gods and Kings agree too often. If the King changes his mind then, miraculously, the gods seem to change theirs as well. When the time for war comes, the gods demand blood and martyrs. When the king wants to fatten himself on gold, the gods suddenly expect grand and expensive tribute. I don't know about the gods themselves, but religion is clearly an arm of the king, not the people.
14. Llangru - Female/Orc - Grigori -
    • The clan is strong and Bhall is stronger, but I find that working alone makes certain jobs much simpler and entertaining to complete.
15. Nosamonce - Female/Human - Sheiam -
    • I have learned that if there is any power in demonology, then it lay with the demons. Using it for your own purposes is like trying to beat mice to death with a rattlesnake.
16. Bhalira - Female/Dwarven - Luchuirp -
    • Some gods, like Nantosuelta and Sirona, are benevolent. Some are not. But in the end all they want is our obedience, not our well being.
17. Comillo - Male/Human - Calabim -
    • Many people speak of the unique... Hunger... of the Calabim. Having lived among them long enough to share in this strange affliction I stand now as testament that it can be overcome, though the Hunger exists in all Lands, not just that of the Calabim. I speak of the Hunger for greater power over the people of Erebus... of what did you speak?
18. Hamlyn Ka - Male/Dwarven - Grigori -
    • Good... Bad... Maybe that Runekeeper was right after all; I'm just a traitor.
19. Kimble the Quick - Male/Human - Grigori -
    • "Kimble the Quick / He would take his pick / Of the gold and the silver up in Jubilee / But Perpy found out / and now the poor lout / is locked up in a tower with his lunacy!" -- Grigori children's rhyme
20. Bakabushi - Female/Human - Illian - Known Facts: Mother was Balseraph, captured in a raid
    • I'm only laughing on the outside / My smile is just skin deep / If you could see inside I'm really crying / You might join me for a weep.

<SNIP>

 

[readercolin]

Question about the lunnotar. Originally, the lunnotar were druid replacement units (specifically, they require neutral alignment). With your adding of a good leader to the grigori, have you removed the neutral alignment requirement?

-Colin

 

[Valkrionn]

Some suggestions:

1. Instead of the Grigori Museum replacing the Pagan Temple you should make it a unique building that requires Writing to build (the same tech that gives access to the National Epic) -- make the Grigori Museum give +3 science, +4 culture, +15% culture, and +1 adventurer GPP
2. Make the replacement for the Pagan Temple a Heroes Tomb, available at Mysticism -- giving +2 culture, +10% culture, and +1 adventurer GPP
3. Introduce a FFH equivalent of the Hermitage state wonder, perhaps the Great Museum you're discussing in this thread, requiring 4 museums and some mid-game tech -- +100% culture, and +2 adventurer GPP

The reason I suggest attaching + culture modifiers to alot of the new Grigori buildings is to make a potential push for culture victory more viable for the civ. The Grigs really need more viable victory conditions and culture should be one of them; the lack of temple stacking hurts them otherwise.

Reworking the adventurer spawning mechanic is also highly desirable. Tying it to the spawning of adventurers to GPP has a negative impact on how the economic and building aspects of the civilization are played. Always control population, never use specialists, etc. For a civ that is already restricted from using any religions, the Grigori adventurer system goes a long way to making sure that they not only play very differently from any other civ but are also only played one way -- a good thing and a very bad thing.

What would work very well for a new spawning mechanic for adventurers is something like the Great General system from Warlords. A pool of adventurer points that is managed at a national level (rather than city level) and filled up by special structures rather than successful conquest. Such a system is self-regulating to some extent; a large Grigori empire would generate adventurers somewhat faster but would also have more territory to defend.

Anyhow, I hope you'll consider some of this; the fact that the Grigori have basically one way to be played (domestically) is a bit of a problem.

What you're proposing for the adventurer spawning is what I already did in RifE.

You have a 'pool' of points. Points are acquired from buildings, and the Apprenticeship civic applies some as well as a modifier (multiplier, rather than simple additive). This is done empire-wide.

Get up to the required points, and an Adventurer will spawn. Cap starts at 100, increased by 20 for each adventurer.

The display is nice too, IMO...

Spoiler :

Just on the point of Adventurer backgrounds (who is from what culture etc.), I guess the last best place I was able to find ideas on it, lore wise, was here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=283290

Maybe it has been discussed more, elsewhere, and more recently.

I guess it would be challenging to figure out though, who could enjoy what backgrounds if they all start out as "classless" adventurers. All I mean by that is that if you pick a guy with a Hippus background, would you enjoy the Horselord promotion ONLY if you chose to advance him up the Mounted line? Or a Svart might get "Sinister" only if you went up the recon line? A Doviello might get Winterborn no matter what line you chose, just to contrast. Or a Balseraph maybe... mutated? Bannor all start with Guardsman, notwithstanding that some units aren't fit to get that promotion (non melee, non archer)?

Anyhow, a cut and paste from that thread in case it's easier to reference here:

Thomas and Dean discussed it on #Erebus, don't think it was on the forums. They used that link to get the backgrounds, though.

Also, I'd think they get the promotions regardless of if you use the 'appropriate' upgrade or not. Encourages you to use them in a certain way, without requiring it.

 

[Goodgimp]

The thing that I dislike about the current Adventurer system (based on GP growth rate) is that it really wrecks havoc with Team games.

As Grigori, you want to avoid specialists and throttle back on any Wonders if you want to get some Adventurers out. However, doing so leaves your per turn GPP quite low, so a teammate is more than likely going to be popping out Great People before you, which leaves you screwed.

IMO, the Grigori Adventurer growth rate either needs to be separate from standard Great Person pool or it needs a new mechanic entirely. Perhaps allowing high level units to gain the Hero promotion in some way.

Sorry, I know this post is short on ideas, but just wanted to point out that for those of us that A) play FFH in multiplayer and B) Play on Teams, Grigori really are a headache to play with.

 

[Medicine_Man_55]

What you're proposing for the adventurer spawning is what I already did in RifE.

You have a 'pool' of points. Points are acquired from buildings, and the Apprenticeship civic applies some as well as a modifier (multiplier, rather than simple additive). This is done empire-wide.

Get up to the required points, and an Adventurer will spawn. Cap starts at 100, increased by 20 for each adventurer.

Imagine that; well that's just about exactly what I was thinking of. Hopefully Sephi will consider it using that system rather than re-inventing the wheel.

 

[Sephi]

Question about the lunnotar. Originally, the lunnotar were druid replacement units (specifically, they require neutral alignment). With your adding of a good leader to the grigori, have you removed the neutral alignment requirement?

-Colin

I think so