Brazil Unique Unit

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

For me personally, only the Pracinha could potentially replace the Minas Gerae, and even then, it's not by that much.

I agree. The Pracinha was the UU for them in Civ 5, however they probably wanted to differentiate them this game. Although I would also argue that the Voluntarios de Patria would be a more ideal gunpowder unit, in my opinion, especially if Pedro II continues to lead Brazil.

And it's not like there's an iconic UU such as Japanese Samurai, or Persian Immortals, that would make the Minas Geraes or Prachina show up every game. They can easily switch them between versions.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Self recongnition should be the most important way to analyze nations. You are american because you think your self as american.

He's Canadian.

Back to the topic, I still don't understand why people don't like Bandeirantes as the best Unique Unit for Brazil, but I have no problems if our UU become the Pracinhas or the Voluntarios da Patria, I just don't like MInas Geraes because it never was used in war, just against Brazilians in States coup

I honestly don't have a problem that it was used for slave purposes, considering it's a part of history. My problem with them is it doesn't feel Brazilian considering Brazil wasn't an independent country whenever they were used, but a Portuguese colony.
Therefore having a slaver unit for Pedro II leading Brazil to me doesn't make sense at all. That doesn't mean I want them as a Portuguese UU either.

 

[Patine]

Self recongnition should be the most important way to analyze nations. You are american because you think your self as American.

No, I'm not American, first off. And, I continue to disagree with you here. Self-identification is the second WORST way to analyse nations, after ONLY slander and derision by their enemies. NOW, back to topic.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I honestly don't have a problem that it was used for slave purposes, considering it's a part of history. My problem with them is it doesn't feel Brazilian considering Brazil wasn't an independent country whenever they were used, but a Portuguese colony.
Therefore having a slaver unit for Pedro II leading Brazil to me doesn't make sense at all. That doesn't mean I want them as a Portuguese UU either.

Basically Portuguese Conquistadors?

 

[Henri Christophe]

as I said, at the time Brazil was under Spanish ruler of Philipe II. That make the Bandeirantes kind of Spanisher Conquistadores
And very important detail, the Bandeirantes speak a native language of Brazil (the Tupi Guarani) at the time it is called just *Lingua geral Paulista*.

And Brazil was called Brazil since 1500, and we never have independence of Portugal (Portugal who get their independence from Brazil), we was an united kingdom and they want to leave. Our history is unique and deserve an unique unit as Bandeirantes to represented it

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

And Brazil was called Brazil since 1500, and we never have independence of Portugal (Portugal who get their independence from Brazil), we was an united kingdom and they want to leave. Our history is unique and deserve an unique unit as Bandeirantes to represented it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_Brazil
Can you explain this then?
I never said Brazil didn't exist in 1500. The colony was called Brazil whether Portugal was in a union with Spain or not.

 

[Patine]

as I said, at the time Brazil was under Spanish ruler of Philipe II. That make the Bandeirantes kind of Spanisher Conquistadores
And very important detail, the Bandeirantes speak a native language of Brazil (the Tupi Guarani) at the time it is called just *Lingua geral Paulista*.

And Brazil was called Brazil since 1500, and we never have independence of Portugal (Portugal who get their independence from Brazil), we was an united kingdom and they want to leave. Our history is unique and deserve an unique unit as Bandeirantes to represented it

The name, "America," dates to Amirigo Vespucci, a navigator who was active before Jamestown was settled, Mexico is a linguistic conceit for the "Land of the Mexica," (Aztecs), who settled in the Valley in the 14th Century, etc., - but the United States and Mexico do NOT mark the beginning of their nationhoods as we know them from those years.

 

[Henri Christophe]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_Brazil
Can you explain this then?
I never said Brazil didn't exist in 1500. The colony was called Brazil whether Portugal was in a union with Spain or not.

The capital of united empire was in Rio de Janeiro, it was an united kingdom in order to participate the Congress of Vienna.
Someday Portugal want to back to be the empire and Brazil just the colony, Brazil don't accept back to be a colony and proclame the independence.
But, if Portugal dosen't want to change the Status Quo, Brazil never will get their independece, it was an initiative of Portugal the independence movment.

By the way, our first king Pedro I, was also Pedro IV of Portugal.

The name, "America," dates to Amirigo Vespucci, a navigator who was active before Jamestown was settled, Mexico is a linguistic conceit for the "Land of the Mexica," (Aztecs), who settled in the Valley in the 14th Century, etc., - but the United States and Mexico do NOT mark the beginning of their nationhoods as we know them from those years.

Americo Vespúcio never went in USA!
About Mexico, for me Mexico begins when Aztecs arrive (or even early, when Toltecs arrive). But I ask a lot of Mexicans "how old are Mexico" and most of them remember the Grito de Hidalgo as born date of modern mexico. And I consider self recognition very important, Mexico is so old as their independence movement.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Americo Vespúcio never went in USA!
About Mexico, for me Mexico begins when Aztecs arrive (or even early, when Toltecs arrive). But I ask a lot of Mexicans "how old are Mexico" and most of them remember the Grito de Hidalgo as born date of modern mexico. And I consider self recognition very important, Mexico is so old as their independence movement.

But he was the first to recognize that America was a separate continent from Asia. That's why it was named after him. And I'm pretty sure the Aztecs didn't consider themselves Mexicans.

Back on topic, only Pracinhas could potentially replace the Minas Gerae, etc., yadyada.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Someday Portugal want to back to be the empire and Brazil just the colony, Brazil don't accept back to be a colony and proclame the independence.

Well you just contradicted yourself and proved my point. Now back to topic.

Back on topic, only Pracinhas could potentially replace the Minas Gerae, etc., yadyada.

Or Voluntarios de Patrias (Fatherland Volunteers).

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Well you just contradicted yourself and proved my point. Now back to topic.


Or Voluntarios de Patrias (Fatherland Volunteers).

Those should be saved for a Persona of Pedro II.

 

[Henri Christophe]

But he was the first to recognize that America was a separate continent from Asia. That's why it was named after him. And I'm pretty sure the Aztecs didn't consider themselves Mexicans.

Back on topic, only Pracinhas could potentially replace the Minas Gerae, etc., yadyada.

Aztecs are the Mexica people, who found the city Mexico-Tenochititlán. Of course they understand they self as Mexica, but today we change the meaning of Mexica to something else.


Back to topic, how about the Cangaceiros as Unique Unit, they are from North East of Brazil.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Those should be saved for a Persona of Pedro II.

Sure but they could also appear for future games as the standalone UU too.

 

[Zaarin]

Of course they understand they self as Mexica, but today we change the meaning of Mexica to something else.

"Change" is a key word here. Just because the Mexican leaders appropriated the name does not make them Aztecs. Saddam Hussein's propaganda painted his Iraq as a successor state to Babylon and churned out slogans like, "Yesterday Nebuchadnezzar, today Saddam," but that doesn't make Iraq in any way, shape, or form Babylonian. Self-perception can be interesting from a cultural and social perspective, but it's entirely irrelevant from a historical perspective.

 

[Evie]

I wouldn't quite compare the two - while I wouldn't call Mexico a true continuation of the Aztec civilization (though within the context of Civilization, I would most assuredly count the Aztecs as being the civilization representing Mexican history), there is much greater relation between Indigenous people of Mexico (of which the Aztecs are only one contributor, and not a particularly large one) and modern mainstream Mexican culture (to say nothing of Indigenous minority groups within Mexico) than between Babylon and Iraq.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

The best friend of Bolivar was a black guy called Dionisio who fight with him in many many battle, he should become a comandante general in this game by the way.

"This fear of race war was deeply ingrained in the class from which he came, haunted as it was by the spectre of the Haitian slave revolution of 1791, which led to mass killings of whites. For Bolívar, the risk of racial demagoguery ruled out democracy in the new republics he created, whose citizens he believed were not yet ready for it after three centuries subjected to the "ignorance, tyranny and vice" of Spanish rule."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/rebranding-bolívar-how-the-left-adopted-the-liberator-1.987676#:~:text=Bolívar was not personally racist,legal footing with other citizens.
Really you need to re-educate yourselves. Bolivar wasn't racists true... but he wasn't THAT into black liberty either. His main concern was the security of Gran Colombia... and outright liberating is too costly. Sure he was pals with a black buy. that does NOT mean he was in black liberation.

Back to the topic, I still don't understand why people don't like Bandeirantes as the best Unique Unit for Brazil, but I have no problems if our UU become the Pracinhas or the Voluntarios da Patria, I just don't like MInas Geraes because it never was used in war, just against Brazilians in States coup

Because that would be an insult to Pedro II?
Why not have the confederate unit as UU when Abraham lincoln leads America? Would that fit America?
You need to see things in different perspective and think MAYBE you are wrong?

 

[Zaarin]

I wouldn't quite compare the two - while I wouldn't call Mexico a true continuation of the Aztec civilization (though within the context of Civilization, I would most assuredly count the Aztecs as being the civilization representing Mexican history), there is much greater relation between Indigenous people of Mexico (of which the Aztecs are only one contributor, and not a particularly large one) and modern mainstream Mexican culture (to say nothing of Indigenous minority groups within Mexico) than between Babylon and Iraq.

My point wasn't to compare them but to point out that a people's self-identity doesn't necessarily reflect any kind of historical reality. That being said, the difference between the relationship between Mexico and the Nahua and Iraq and Babylon is chiefly a matter of time. Babylon had been gone for over two millennia when Saddam Hussein called himself the new Nebuchadnezzar, whereas the Triple Alliance fell only 500 years ago and its descendants still maintain a distinct identity.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Back to the topic, guys, please!! We can discuss these other topics in different threads, alright?

Now, Cangaceiros are interesting, but what would they do?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Now, Cangaceiros are interesting, but what would they do?

I'm not sure. From what I read they're mainly outlaws, or people that live an outlaw life, that have always been in trouble with the government of Brazil. I don't think they'd make the best unit, from a historical standpoint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangaço

 

[Henri Christophe]

Because that would be an insult to Pedro II?
Why not have the confederate unit as UU when Abraham lincoln leads America? Would that fit America?
You need to see things in different perspective and think MAYBE you are wrong?

I don't see as an insult to D.Pedro II the Bandeirantes, have a lot of statues of Bandeirantes around

I'm not sure. From what I read they're mainly outlaws, or people that live an outlaw life, that have always been in trouble with the government of Brazil. I don't think they'd make the best unit, from a historical standpoint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangaço

They are outlaw, but the Brazilians love they, they are kind of Robin Wood, they stole but are beloved.
The game Smite use a Cangaceiro as Brazilian UU.