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Brennus Thirdly

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by krikav, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Yep wait until Agri finished, see if you find more animals around.
    Imo your scout should head back to south of Bibracte fast, both for scouting and fogbusting (only direction barbs look potentially dangerous from).
     
  2. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler :


    Hannibal has not found others yet. And he doesn't seem to be building a settler in Utica.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    I went slow and steady to not lose the scout. But I should probably heed @Fippys advice now and start moving slowly south to secure that area somewhat.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    AH takes 11 turns, and that would likely mean that the worker will farm and walk to the piggies and stand there for one turn. Then pasture 4 turns.
    If no horses show up on any of the two potential sites, there is an absolute disaster.
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

    Mining BW looks better, get a mined powertile one turn earlier, and doesn't matter much if it's more hammer or more food at this stage I think.
    Is a desert hill 5 turns to mine...? That could preoccupy the worker while waiting for BW, a almost completely useless tile though as there already is one 3H tile available... but likely best move anyway?
    There is also a slim chance the desert hill might be copper too.
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

     
  3. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Tricky as AH gets 20% from both hunting and Agri, wish there would be a cow or so closer to make that easier.
    Also with 2 power tiles + PH, chopping would not be that crucial early (imo).
    I have no strong opinion on which to pick here, worth considering that AH + wheel (if horsies) would be quicker than mining + BW + wheel (if copper).
     
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  4. Jarno

    Jarno Chieftain

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    Drawback from AH is when there are no horsies around, you would have so many idle worker turns. With BW and no copper, just start chopping. Could copper appear on the grass flatland? Either way more possible copper than horse tiles in the BFC.
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T32 BW :


    Toku appears with a scout.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    Both Toku and Hannibal are eager to map out the south, so I dare to climb hills taging along
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

    Napoleon also appears! Suddenly Hannibal as closest neighbour doesn't feel all that bad.
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

    Think I did a minor micro error here. I should have worked a more hammer heavy tile last turn, before pig-mine came online, that way I would have gotten to pop3 the same time as the third warrior finishes.
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    Working hammer tiles now to get some overflow into the settler at least.
    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG
    Hannibals scout went into the jungle, and my two warriors start to be more brave. A flatland barb city there.
    That should prevent Hannibal from thinking about settling in this direction I think.
    Also, is the tile 2S of the fish, the only possible tile that gets that fish now...?
    Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG

    Southern region was easy to fogbust, scout took up the western position first before warrior came there to take his place, then the scout carefully walked west and secured that spot.
    South is 100% safe now, as Hannibal have popped borders and fogbust all other tiles.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG

    Worker had time to finish that desert mine so I now gain a commerce while building settler, not all that bad!
    Worker is chopping that tile first, because I wanted to sprint north. But now I'm not sure anymore.
    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG

    I have copper in the south, and there was hill piggies on that mysterious tile all along, settlement SW from initial settler position would have been very strong, but it would have orphaned those clams.
    City placement here feels abit akwards... Want to block of this land, but if I share wheat Hanny might get funny ideas about settling further south. Settling SW of the copper and build a monument would reserve all land, but that city would be slow and not very good.
    Obviously want to settle 1N of piggies quite soon too, as thats a very nice spot.
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

    A group with similar peaceweights. Have to keep in mind that I could get a target easy here, and pleasing them all doesn't look that likely unless there is some religious AI sharing our continent.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG


     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  6. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Could have yup, i think copper can appear on all tiles (even ice).

    Looks like very solid fogbusting, Krikav :)
    Funny that settling more south would also have given hill pigs.
     
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  7. Jarno

    Jarno Chieftain

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    Man it's so satisfying if the tundra is like a perfect composition of 5x5 squares. No funny peninsulas requiring an additional fogbuster.

    Now settling the immediate south (for metal) doesn't seem to have the highest priority, more concerned about how to generate commerce. Maybe claim the FPs by settling 1NW of the pigs (insta-connected)? Would need pottery though to be of any proper added value. Or you could go fishing and settle the clam/fish/pig?

    Happy crew of warmongers you've met so far :crazyeye:
     
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  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T32 Overview, thoughts and plan :


    Ok, I moved one of the warriors up north, and that barb city also has a wheat.
    Would be lovely to get that spot.
    One way is to settle north first and get a monument quickly, either I get that barb city culture flipped eventually, or I take it with axes or someone else takes it, but if I get a monument there early I'm likely to have T0 access to that city at a war declaration for quite some time, could be handy.

    Another way is to claim copper quickly and just get a few axes out. This is also nice for safety reasons, and could open up possibilities for opportunistic warfare (say it turns out that Hannibal is stuck with archers..)

    Other than that, I see that the south is pretty much decided. I need to settle 1N of the piggies to get clam+fish, and if I do that I likewise need to settle 2S of the pigs, as 3 food sources are difficult to handle with one city.
    That can be postponed for quite some time though, and I could have those southern pigs mined for long too.

    Hannibal will go for the cows before he goes further south, so I have some warning.
    The northern spot I like 2N1W of pigs, I'm not sure that would be insta-connected, but it gives me more land and it gives me the opportunity to build workboats for capitals fish and for the clam. (And possibly for that fish further north if I can get that spot too.

    Southern spot i like NW of the copper, as that could share the wheat which no other tile can. This spot require a road to be connected.

    I'm leaning toward the southern spot first, as it grabs a powerful resouce (copper, 6 yield tile) and because the purpose with norther spot would likely be to get a monument and make a war easier in 70 turns time, which I think is good, but it's a way slower and slower yielding idea.
    In either case though, I think TW is the way to go. Fishing before pottery makes sense though, but I kind of want to go AH before all those techs though...
    Worker is in a bad spot to move to the copper, so should likely just stay and chop. (Maybe into henge to ease up economy) or maybe just into another settler.
    Thinking that growing to size4 and whip a worker for southern city is best.
    Maybe that lines up well with TW, so that the new worker can enter the forest and make a road for two turns, and then reach copper right away, connecting the cities and only using one turn to do it.
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

     

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  9. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T40 :

    As a chop is landing soon, I decide to grow toward pop4 instead, thinking that this gives me 1T slower settler, but that I reach pop4 2 turns quicker and thus getting a worker 2T quicker.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
    Then I realize I have 10 production, and have a chop landing so I get to 30/60, and I have happycap enough to handle it and low enough food that it isn't a problem.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG
    So I just 1pop whip that worker, this way, I save a population. Overflow would only have gotten into SH and I have enough there already I think
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG
    First worker did two chops, then entered forest in time for TW, second worker is just out and have moved into forest. I'm starting to have second thoughts about settling something north to share pigs. if it doesn't claim more food... Copper city will probably need the wheat to be functional up until biology so capital needs its piggies.
    One alternative is to road there, then settler reaches that jungle tile in two turns, it will get fish in second ring, and start to put culture pressure against that barb city.
    Abit worried that this is too slow and not good enough though.
    Another alternative is to settle that plain hill.... Or to simply go southwest instead and fight myself out for land later.
    Or... go for some axes and just take that barb city.
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG
    Hannibal has settled up there, so he is boxing me in. Partly good because then the morons will leave me alone, but partly bad because I'm boxed in. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG



     
  10. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Sorry, long turnset, things where just cruising along. :)
    Spoiler Writing - T71 :


    SH is built T41 so I couldn't get more hammers into it, I get 46 failgold the next turn. Which makes me go AH right away.
    While Capital builds settler, I try to grow this city. It will have difficulties getting up to size with so little food.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG

    As capital is 7T away from borderpop, I replan and instead road these two tiles, another road but this speeds up settler and will connect this city once borders pop.
    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG

    AH reveals horses, nice! Also note that that lovely barb city also has horses! Rivers everywhere, cow, wheat and horses. I GOT to get that city.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    Hannibal settles in my face.
    Civ4ScreenShot0015.JPG

    T54 Napoleon finishes oracle and likely grab alfabet. I have nothing to give him.

    I steal Hannibals forests. :)
    Economy is tanking, but I'll continue to crank out axes untill I'm sure I get that barb city.
    Workers have no time laying down cottages either. :(
    I do take time to road toward this city now though and that yields +4 commerce right away.
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

    I meet Sully this turn, he has been busy building wonders. Doesn't look like he have had that much luck spreading that religion though.
    I OB with him as the others seem to tolerate him. To activate that road to Hannibal the same turn.
    Also tie up a few resources (gems from Napoleon) even though I don't need them yet.
    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

    Poor Hannibal really must be squeezed in the west. I hope Judaism spreads to me too, I think it was WvO that founded it.
    Civ4ScreenShot0029.JPG

    Here I make a go for it.
    First axe wins, second dies, third wins. Then I injure the last archer with the warrior so the fourth axe get good odds. Last axe kills the severely injured archer.
    68g, 3 axes at 6/8 xp (each already at CR1), one at 4/4 (gets woody) and a absolutely lovely city. This gets me to writing too!
    Civ4ScreenShot0031.JPG

    Hannibal just captured a jungle barb city settled on rice, and that takes his city count up to 7. Most of them are crap and only the two closest to me are hilled (If I was right about the capital).
    Civ4ScreenShot0035.JPG

    A jungeled peninsula where I think Hannibal will continue to expand. A hilled barb city up there too, I should send up two of my 6/8 axes up there to see if I can either snipe it if the AIs go for it, or if I can get a promotion to reach lvl4.
    WvO is willing to trade marble so there is a chance I can get it later.
    WvO and Napoleon have alfabet. I have to get cottages down now and see how quick I can get economy going, if I can reach aestethics in time or if I need to do someting else.
    Civ4ScreenShot0037.JPG
     
  11. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    And the save:
     

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  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    How come noone is giving me hell for settling Tolosa with food in second ring? :)
     
  13. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    Interesting game, no obvious path to follow. I would probably have skipped fishing to bulb Engineering, plenty of food available as is. Construction war doesn't look too tempting. From your position I'd probably try to get to Cuirs as quickly as possible (bulb the usual stuff along the way). The Aesth route looks tempting if you can trade for marble. Else it's probably better to beeline CoL & Philo, especially with a SPI leader.
     
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  14. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I didn't read thoroughly but I think SIP was overthought. Wet wheat and fish in Bibracte would run the distance easily.
    2H city tile is good but losing food and even coastal access... I wouldn't say it's worth it. Fish is power.
    From starting screen, I don't see any reason to move.

    ps : trust the mapmaker ;)
    pps : standard resource generation for capital's BFC is 4 specials. Seeing 2 + forests, you gotta know there's more. (Floodplains count as 1/2 resource, so fp starts are not likely to yield stratetic resources or the such.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  15. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler Toward T89 :


    After the tough initial landgrab, and especially after rushing out 6 axes I'm abit exhausted, 4 workers in this empire is pathetic and I must prioritize getting more asap, I'm up at 8 workers T89, two where 2popped in tolosa, one 1popped in Vienne, and one 2popped in Gergovia.
    Capital is getting tasked with building a gift settler to Hannibal after library completion, with the aid of chops.
    I try to focus food in cities so that cities with granaries get first dibs, then cities w/o granaries and lastly food is redirected into workers/settlers.
    Hannibal is finishing a monument in his southern city next turn, which prompts me to counter that with a monument of my own.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    I make a note of this... No metals and he is unlikely to trade for them too. He does have alot developed calendar resources though and is likely to reach longbows very soon. And he has ivory so probably too late to be a pushover with gallic warriors. Especially since I'm allready preoccupied with thousands of other important tasks.
    Perhaps my 5 axes should have marched toward him, instead of the northern barb city though...
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

    T77 Napoleon demands 70g, which sets me back at least 2-3 turns from aestehics, I don't feel brave enough to refuse though, I'm cautious with everyone and especially Hannibal who is pleased with his other land targets could start to plot at any turn.
    He does seem to be in expansion mode still though, hill city... not so nice.
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    This map is gearing up to a total carnage. Hannibal and Toku has now swapped from sullys minority religion judaism to WvOs minority religion confu, and Napoleon founds his own. Bascially it's everyone against everyone here. Going mounted warfare feels spot on, I might have to move around quite abit.
    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG

    Uticas borders pop and a hammer appears in the desert, thats iron. Capital goes for a monument right away, 117 turns to next borderpop though, but every bit helps.
    I wanted a city SE of the incense earlier on, and I think I'll put the settler there instead of gifting it to hannibal, if I was more desperate for the iron I should probably settle something with the iron in first ring, but such a city would be junk, that incense city could be quite good. Will farm the floodplains I think.
    Both Sully and WvO have been putting up iron for trade, and I might have other sources too, so playing a safer middleway here.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    Marble is still up for trade, noone seem to have anything that WvO wants.
    I'm carefull to tie up all deals that come available, but I don't want to open borders with WvO, nor start any trading with him untill I have to, as he is worst enemy of Toku (irrelevant) and Napoleon (Highly relevant!)
    Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG

    Umm... Sully, what are you doing..? :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0017.JPG

    Hannibal is likely to make a go for it, and I circle around like a vulture. A woody2 axe, one at 3xp unpromoted and two at 6/8 CR2.
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG

    That has got to be some bad rolls for Hannibal...? I can't risk this though, CR2 axe gets 21% odds. If there was only two archers I could have chanced.
    One high prio for me here is to get a guy to 8xp though, but if I can get this city that would be sweet too.
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

    Napoleon reached longbows last turn or this, and he also canceled deals. Apparantly not interested in fish and wheat. He does have a taste for horses though, likely contemplating the joy of crushing his worst enemy WvO with knights.
    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG


     
  16. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I appreciate alot when you guys chime in and tell me how you would have thought and prioritized differently, helps me to learn!
    @Pedro78 That you would have avoided fishing to bulb engineering was interesting for example.

    Spoiler T89 Situation :

    I have to be happy with this landgrab. Game would have been way eaiser if Hannibal would have settled his first city toward the others instead. (Likely easier for him too!)
    Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG
    I'm blessed with quite alot of resources that is high in demand which is lovely! Noone has copper?! What kind of map is this. :D
    Civ4ScreenShot0028.JPG
    5T to Aestethics now. I must remember to trade for the gold/marble prior to finishign Aestethics as that tech seems to up the price alot.
    After that... I'm thinking drama as next tradebait, but I want meditation/poly/litterature too to start failgolding.
    Civ4ScreenShot0029.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0030.JPG
    I'm finished with scouting out Napoleons territory, and soon I have to tie up the marble from WvO, so will cruise toward him and start to scout his land too.
    Civ4ScreenShot0031.JPG
    Thats abit larger stack than I was hoping for... He might just snipe the city right from me.
    Should perhaps just throw my axes away so I have a hope of getting a lvl4 guy.
    Can hope that the barb city builds another archer though. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0032.JPG
    Cimmerian has been getting special treatment I'm thinking a heroic epic there would be wonderful to push culture abit.
    Libraries in Cimm, Tolosa (Just 1pop whipped for the aestethics-sprint), Capital and in Gregorvia.
    Vienne can't do much at all. Was w/o a granary for a long time and capital have had dibs on the wheat too.
    Setting up for burocracy here with cottages concentrated around capital, although I'll cottage abit around Tolosa later on too.
    Plan to whip barracks and some gallic warriors (who doesn't need iron!) for failgold once I can put hammers into Shadawgon and parthenon and national wonders in Tolosa, Gergovia and Deer city. Capital and Cimmerian I just want large and capable.
    Civ4ScreenShot0033.JPG


    *EDIT* Empire after T89 Micro
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    */EDIT*

     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  17. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T95 Aestethics trades :


    I should probably not have been that afraid of diplo hits with Napoleon... Because now I lost marble. :'(
    I thought the player got to see all resources available for trade, before the AIs got a chance to trade? Not the case it seem!
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

    Same thing happens with Hannibals gold next turn. Toku did not have surplus dye to trade last turn. :<
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

    Hannibal sends a smaller force, very good!
    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG


    Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG

    This guy even makes it! :D
    Next guy gets good odds, and gain 2xp as well, so now I have two CR3 axes and have unlocked heroic. I also gain a very nice city, although it's far away.
    Sending a worker north asap.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG

    Sully is behind WvO, as he is sending missionaries to me (I have gotten 0 autospread, annoying!), and he has closed borders with Toku (suprise! )
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

    Unfortunatly, sully is only willing to give 35g for Aestethics, so he is almost finished with it.
    Even worse is that Napoleon is also going for Aestethics which is really weird. (Offering meditation+some change).
    The others are willing to give math though, so they haven't started teching aesetthics.

    I put some beakers into alfabet and wait untill next turn.
    Annoying as well, because I just whipped barracks in deer city with the intent of rolling hammers onwards with research, but now I have to throw 35 hammers into a spear.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    Next turn Sully finishes Aestethics, and I get this Idea that I can trade for HBR, and broker that to WvO for massive profit, but Hannibal isn't willing to trade right away, so I put some beakers into HBR.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    But after trading for alfa with WvO, I can't get the deal, he isn't going for aestethics himself (I have EP so I see he is going for currency.
    Have Aestethics crossed some line where it isn't worth as much anymore...?
    I'll just go put some more beakers into it and try again next turn.
    Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG
     
  18. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T103 :

    I trade for WvOs gold and OB with him, finish meditation and trade HBR for IW with WvO.
    I gift Toku HBR and Aestethics but only gain +2 diplo, he is not pleased by this.
    That desert spot is my only source of iron.
    Nothing up at the barb city either. :/
    Now I save up cash, grow abit, whipping some stuff and put overflow into Paya.
    I haven't really prepared GPgeneration very well, because I'm ages away from a second one, but first one I think should absolutely do an academy. I'm still lacking either drama or CoL for a philo-bulb, and I need math too, and I have nothing to trade.
    The +4 culture from the academy will help greatly claiming that iron too. Later I also whip a monestery and start to slow-build a half-price temple.
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    Glib is built by Sully T100.

    Hannibal is powerful. Wonder if I should consider that gift city idea again... Noone is plotting, which is very weird.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    T103... I have 644 hammers into Paya now and SoZ is built, Paya should be built any turn now but I continue to put one overflow into it each turn while I can.
    Can reach drama with the cash I have at hand now though and capital is almost large enough to work all cottages. I think I should go for it as I could trade for math and perhaps monarchy,if I get there. I have some forests with one turn of chopping left that I could get into Paya too.
    CoL is also an option, but so is compass.
    The marble is still unavailable.
    If Napoleon would get his act together I could become a warbuddy with him against perhaps WvO, and then cozy up with Sully with HR+Hindu.
    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG

     
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  19. Jarno

    Jarno Chieftain

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    Thanks for the updates, guess your level is way above mine so I'm reluctant to give any 'advice'. Was rooting for you to make the resource deals when you could before they would disappear, unfortunately you didn't :(
    Hope you can trade yourself out of the technological backlog
     
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  20. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @Jarno Don't worry about level of skill. I make moronic mistakes all the time. I also have a tendancy to get confused and lost inside my own cute ideas instead of just playing the map. :)
    Not locking up the marble trade when I could was clearly a mistake.
     

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