Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski: Israeli interrogators 'in Iraq'

[Capulet]

Israeli interrogators 'in Iraq'


Members of Karpinski's (l) brigade have been accused of abuse
The US officer at the heart of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal says she has evidence that Israelis helped to interrogate Iraqis at another facility.
Brig Gen Janis Karpinski told the BBC she met an Israeli working as an interrogator at a secret intelligence centre in Baghdad.

A BBC reporter says it is the first time a senior US officer has suggested Israelis worked with the coalition.

The Israeli foreign ministry said the reports were completely untrue.

Gen Karpinski was in charge of the military police unit that ran Abu Ghraib and other prisons when the abuses were committed. She has been suspended but not charged.

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme she met a man claiming to be Israeli during a visit to an intelligence centre with a senior coalition general.

"I saw an individual there that I hadn't had the opportunity to meet before, and I asked him what did he do there, was he an interpreter - he was clearly from the Middle East," she said in the interview.

"He said, 'Well, I do some of the interrogation here. I speak Arabic but I'm not an Arab; I'm from Israel.'"


Images of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison sparked global outrage
Until a 1999 ruling by the Israeli Supreme Court, Israeli secret service interrogators were allowed to use "moderate force".

The US journalist who broke the Abu Ghraib scandal told the programme his sources confirm the presence of Israeli intelligence agents in Iraq.

Seymour Hersh said that one of the Israeli aims was to gain access to detained members of the Iraqi secret intelligence unit, who reportedly specialise in Israeli affairs.

'Convenient scapegoat'

The BBC reporter, Matthew Grant, says that whatever the truth, these allegations could cause anger in the Arab world.


Photographs of naked Iraqi detainees being humiliated and maltreated first started to surface in April, sparking shock and anger across the world.

One soldier has been sentenced and six others are awaiting courts martial for abuses committed at Abu Ghraib jail.

Gen Karpinski has said she was being made a "convenient scapegoat" for abuse ordered by others.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3863235.stm

 

[boogaboo]

Musa, don't u have anything better to do than to blame Israelis for all the world troubles?? I won't have it.
Don't take it personally..

I'll reply to your emphasis (and center of story):

Until a 1999 ruling by the Israeli Supreme Court, Israeli secret service interrogators were allowed to use "moderate force".

This was done, because we have too many situations where we can stop a bombing if we get the information from a person who we know has it.
It ain't right, but please suggest what sould be done with such a person -
even the US (where u supposedly live) changed some laws in order to confront terror. We were just hit a lot earlier and adopted.

I believe that force is still used in some places and circumstances, and that the ruling was more to minimize such cases and not give legitimation.
It was also good for forein affairs, and is right.

The US journalist who broke the Abu Ghraib scandal told the programme his sources confirm the presence of Israeli intelligence agents in Iraq.

We're everywhere. sure.
Why is it such a shock that our intelligence is in Iraq? I'm sure the intelligence agencies of half the globe are there..
The US and EU are there..

Seymour Hersh said that one of the Israeli aims was to gain access to detained members of the Iraqi secret intelligence unit, who reportedly specialise in Israeli affairs.

Great thinking on our side. What's the problem?
Former Iraqis surely tell stuff to the US, and we're US freiends.

"I saw an individual there that I hadn't had the opportunity to meet before, and I asked him what did he do there, was he an interpreter - he was clearly from the Middle East," she said in the interview.

"He said, 'Well, I do some of the interrogation here. I speak Arabic but I'm not an Arab; I'm from Israel.'"

OK, the Israeli is there! Call the forces home!
He may even do interrogations, but only under US orders.
Perhaps he's an Israeli living in the US and working for the US miulitary?
Still can't see the problem.

The BBC reporter, Matthew Grant, says that whatever the truth, these allegations could cause anger in the Arab world.

Note:
info : "whatever the truth"
consequence : "anger in the Arab world"
They like to get mad? ok.
I'm quite comfortable here with my dog Ootchy.

=====================

So.. I conclude this is a good report on Israel!

 

[amadeus]

I'd much rather be interrogated by Israeli forces than by Egyptian, Jordanian, or even Turkish forces.

 

[MarineCorps]

I don't think we are stupid enough to bring Israel into this.

 

[Capulet]

Musa, don't u have anything better to do than to blame Israelis for all the world troubles?? I won't have it.
Don't take it personally..

I'll reply to your emphasis (and center of story):



This was done, because we have too many situations where we can stop a bombing if we get the information from a person who we know has it.
It ain't right, but please suggest what sould be done with such a person -
even the US (where u supposedly live) changed some laws in order to confront terror. We were just hit a lot earlier and adopted.

I believe that force is still used in some places and circumstances, and that the ruling was more to minimize such cases and not give legitimation.
It was also good for forein affairs, and is right.



We're everywhere. sure.
Why is it such a shock that our intelligence is in Iraq? I'm sure the intelligence agencies of half the globe are there..
The US and EU are there..



Great thinking on our side. What's the problem?
Former Iraqis surely tell stuff to the US, and we're US freiends.



OK, the Israeli is there! Call the forces home!
He may even do interrogations, but only under US orders.
Perhaps he's an Israeli living in the US and working for the US miulitary?
Still can't see the problem.



Note:
info : "whatever the truth"
consequence : "anger in the Arab world"
They like to get mad? ok.
I'm quite comfortable here with my dog Ootchy.

=====================

So.. I conclude this is a good report on Israel!

First off, where have I ever blamed the world's troubles on Israel?
Did I even comment on my own thread? I just bolded some key points of relevance. I wasn't even going to reply to this thread, err, until your post

What are Israelis doing in Iraq, knowing quite well that if the rest of the Arab world finds out, it will only add fuel to their thinking that the war was for Israel? Israel has no business in the security of Iraq, it should deal with it's own problems.

Your reply was of no real point, no real relevance. Your rebuttal is just saying that it's okay for Israel to be in Iraq, when it's not.

 

[boogaboo]

First off, where have I ever blamed the world's troubles on Israel?
Did I even comment on my own thread? I just bolded some key points of relevance. I wasn't even going to reply to this thread, err, until your post

What are Israelis doing in Iraq, knowing quite well that if the rest of the Arab world finds out, it will only add fuel to their thinking that the war was for Israel? Israel has no business in the security of Iraq, it should deal with it's own problems.

Your reply was of no real point, no real relevance. Your rebuttal is just saying that it's okay for Israel to be in Iraq, when it's not.

You are blaming that Israeli intelligence should not be there, when half the world is.
The meaning of intelligence is gathering information, and we both don't know what Iraq will be tomorrow.
I'll also be surprised if there is ANY arab country without intelligence in Iraq. Does that make me an angry Israeli who's adding fuel to the fire??

Israel has no business in the security of Iraq.
With that I agree. Intelligence is another issue.

 

[Sirotnikov]

His rebuttal is quite similar to what mine will be.

And here's mine:

Israeli intelligence may or may not be in Iraq. Whether they are or aren't, both are OK, since, over half of the world probably has intelligence agents in Iraq.

I highly doubt, however, that the Israelis are somehow participating in the actions of the US intelligence or interrogators. I'm quite sure that the US wish to keep their bussiness to themselves where they can. Especially when it comes to touchy issues like interrogations.

Furthermore, I doubt Israel would risk sending agents for such things - knowing it would spark instant animocity from the Arab world. While Israel once was very daring, I think it is more likely today it stays out of places it didn't belong to.

 

[MrPresident]

"I saw an individual there that I hadn't had the opportunity to meet before, and I asked him what did he do there, was he an interpreter - he was clearly from the Middle East," she said in the interview.

"He said, 'Well, I do some of the interrogation here. I speak Arabic but I'm not an Arab; I'm from Israel.'"

What's wrong with having an interpreter at an interrogation?

 

[zulu9812]

This news will not go down well with the Iraqi people - it will only serve to reinforce their view that the Americans and the Jews are plotting against the Arabs...

 

[JohnRM]

None of this would surprise me. While I do not see anything inherently wrong with having Israeli assistance, it might not be a good idea, in this case.

 

[boogaboo]

I don't mean it's a good idea for them to be seen, just to be there.

 

[Alvaro da Luna]

I'd much rather be interrogated by Israeli forces than by Egyptian, Jordanian, or even Turkish forces.

Are you seriously stooping so far below western standards of morality to even consider that comparisson?



I love it when you decide to compare lesser countries to far more democratised and supposedly peacefull nations. Again, the very foundation of your superior democracy lies in maintaining ethical standards.

Once again,

 

[NateDawgNY]

Originally posted by Alvaro da Luna
lesser countries

What makes you think those countries are lesser? They just have a harsher form of punishment, which is something all countries should have. Maybe then someone would think twice before committing a crime.
On topic:

"Sources in the security establishment said the possibility of Israeli agents being involved in interrogations similar to those in the Abu Ghraib prison was "conspiratorial if not laughable."

The official denial does not rule out the fact that former Israeli security officers may have set up private consultancies and trained US defense contractors who subsequently worked in Iraq. There is no evidence of this reported so far.

MK Yuval Steinitz, who chairs the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said: "It seems to be ridiculous. I do not know of any Israeli presence in the jail or in the investigations taking place in Iraq."

While it's true there is intelligence sharing between Israel and the US, Israel is not part of the coalition and there are no Israelis officially dispatched on such an assignment in Iraq. The presence of Israeli forces in Iraq would likely anger the Muslim world, where many compare the abuse of prisoners by US forces to Israel's treatment of Palestinian detainees."
Jerusalem Post
Arieh O' Sullivan and Tovah Lazaroff

convenient scapegoat

What a crock of bull. Being the Commanding Officer she had full knowledge of what was going on. If she didn't, then she was a sh***y C.O. This latest accusation of Israeli involvement just goes to show that she is backed into a corner and grasping at straws.

 

[insurgent]

I don't see anything wrong in receiving the aid of an ally - I think Israel has much valuable experience in this matter. But it certainly isn't wise in the war for the hearts and minds of the Iraqis.
So I wouldn't do it. But Israel is/should be our ally and we should be able to call on their help.

 

[CurtSibling]

I'd much rather be interrogated by Israeli forces than by Egyptian, Jordanian, or even Turkish forces.

After all - Israeli torturers were taught by the best in the field.

The West!

 

[luiz]

Israel can share very useful information regarding the sort of warfare taking place in Iraq. They are the best in the world in counter-terrorism, so it's only natural that the US, Israel's best friend in the world, will request help and the israelis will help.

That said, I agree that having israelis in Iraq is bad PR with the iraqis, that have beign brainwashed by anti-semitic propaganda for decades.

PS: I know that the iraqis are also semitic and so technically they can't be anti-semites, but please let's not get into technicalities.

 

[CurtSibling]

Oh, that makes everything OK then...

 

[Ramius75]

I think the Israel interrogator are there coz they are best at Counter-terrorist.

The other thing i read about in this thread thou, is how i find double standards are everywhere. It ok for this but not ok for that ? Sheer hypocrisy. And further more they still boast about their superior morality.

Ramius

 

[luiz]

Oh, that makes everything OK then...

Is it automatically wrong just because they're israelis?
I said it before that this is bad PR, but not fundamentally wrong(abuses have beign commited by all involved, not only israelis)

 

[boogaboo]

I think the Israel interrogator are there coz they are best at Counter-terrorist.

The other thing i read about in this thread thou, is how i find double standards are everywhere. It ok for this but not ok for that ? Sheer hypocrisy. And further more they still boast about their superior morality.

Ramius

I have too much to say about hypocracy..
If you make a hypocracy thread, I'll join it.

Generally, it is caused by the fact that noone cares (or rather organize) about the big picture -
in the macro, countries look upon their own interests even (and often) at the cost of other countries.
in the micro, people look for themselves first, again even at the expense of others.

So, in the macro, some countries are slaves to other countries. (CEO and management is from USA.. Israel is the secretary ).
Also, in the micro, there are economic classes.

EDIT : corruption is also largely inherent from power, which belongs to the government. This is how government systems fail again and again. They look after themselves, in a democracy as in tyrany.

My point is clear, but.. there is no thread.. ee, spoon..