Britain is leaving the EU

[Cheetah]

Remaining in EEA would mean remaining in the single market, and following all the rules, but with no decision making authority.

Which the UK doesn't want, apparently.

 

[Kyriakos]

I never really liked the term "Brexit" anyway. If I remember correctly there was all that talk of Greece leaving the
eurozone which resulted in the term "Grexit" and I believe that Brexit was derived by replacing the "Gr" with "Br".

Bremoval? Ukthxbi? Engtakeoff? There are many other options...

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

Make United Kingdom England Great Again

Is the third one supposed to be Cornwall? If so that's awesome, but I do believe that both Cornwall/Devon & Wales voted Leave...

 

[Lohrenswald]

Is the third one supposed to be Cornwall? If so that's awesome, but I do believe that both Cornwall/Devon & Wales voted Leave...

It's older than the referendum

 

[Kyriakos]

Cornwall needs a regional parliament

 

[really]

Cornwall needs a regional parliament

They had one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stannary_Courts_and_Parliaments

 

[innonimatu]

The EU has been used as a way around domestic problems for ever by every single government what it is not is sovereignty-gutting. That national governments find it convenient to oppose measures nationally that they then support EU wide and bemoan how except for voting for that same measure they are not responsible for it and that all blame lies in Brussels is an abdication of political responsibility not of sovereignty. There is precious little the EU does that is not supported by either a super majority or all member governments.

I am not going to let you get way with that statement. It is a lie and what the ECB and all the EU bureaucracy did to Greece when the greeks dared disagree with the powers in Brussels and Frankfurt proves it.

 

[ori]

The ECB and the EU bureaucracy did nothing to the Greek that the Greek government did not agree to - that the choices to be made by the Greek government were not good either way does not mean there was no sovereign decision (the same as it was sovereign decisions leading to the crisis) and the Greek situation is not indicative of removal of sovereignty - unless you count not having control over the printing press there - but that was a sovereign decision by the then Greek government when joining the Euro establishing a multinational central bank and the current government when not leaving. That you do not like the equally sovereign decisions by the majority of other EU member states with regards to Greece does not make it a EU as much as a European story. I agree that the way it was and is being treated is all sorts of wrong (we won't necessarily agree on what is wrong though) - I strongly disagree that it proves that the EU is a sovereignty guzzling monster. The drivers there are the Greek government alongside the other EU governments - the EU bureaucracy is neither driver of enforcement nor driver of policy here. Neither is the ECB - although there atleast is something to it as that central bank now follows policies that a Greek national bank would not. Again though this is not some thing that sneaked up on anybody but every single involved country made the decision to join the Euro - none woke suddenly to a situation were their currency was removed from them without their consent.

 

[FriendlyFire]

in the EEA the UK is one of the contracting parties as such, leaving the EU is not going to terminate their EEA membership - but the way it is set up in terms of decision making it would lack most of its current say.

The UK wants the Norway Model ?
So the UK will accept the four freedoms including free movement, follow EU regulations, pay large money into EU funds but have no Political decision making power ?
All the UK would gain would be Freedom to make its own, Fishing and Agricultural laws and lose its political influence in EU decision making.

I guess it could remain an EEA member while it negotiates its Brexit though

 

[FriendlyFire]

Alternatively they could apply for EFTA membership - don't know the rules there, its such a small body.
Edit: actually EFTA membership would merely require consent by the other EFTA states (but the EEA than requires EFTA states to contribute financially - which again would be part of negotiations with the EU).

So backdooring to the EU via Norway then ? Geologically that is pretty umm strange ?
Thinking about all the Automotive cars going to Norway first, then from Norway to France.

 

[Yeekim]

Since we're posting comics:

 

[ori]

I do not understand the backdooring thing - EFTA membership simply grants EEA membership (or atleast is a way in - no detour required). And the UK most certainly wants free trade with the EU similar to the EEA, its just not saying so out loud. And pretends its to be Norway plus some privileges for the UK that Norway does not get. I believe that the end result will be something akin to the Norway deal with some additions that the UK can point to as being in their favor and some additions that the EU can point to to claim that exiting the EU is a bad idea.

 

[Cheetah]

But that all requires the UK to accept the freedom for workers to move there...

 

[FriendlyFire]

I do not understand the backdooring thing - EFTA membership simply grants EEA membership (or atleast is a way in - no detour required). And the UK most certainly wants free trade with the EU similar to the EEA, its just not saying so out loud. And pretends its to be Norway plus some privileges for the UK that Norway does not get. I believe that the end result will be something akin to the Norway deal with some additions that the UK can point to as being in their favor and some additions that the EU can point to to claim that exiting the EU is a bad idea.

So UK signs a Free Trade agreement to join EFTA which is NORWAY, ICELAND & SWIZTERLAND
And this allows UK free trade with Germany and France etc ?

Because What would happen is the trade would be Backdoored via Norway, (the closest country to the UK).
All trade goods to EU would have to go through via Norway. Not sure how economical this would be given the transportation cost and distances

It looks like UK left the EFTA in 1973 to join the EU

 

[ori]

actually EFTA members can apply for EEA membership - so its more: sign a treaty with EFTA members to then apply for EEA membership and sign that again with the EEA (read EU and EFTA) - its mostly a way to get into the mechanisms of EFTA that only list EU and EFTA institutions. As for the UK accepting freedom of workers to move to it: right now May says the UK is not seeking membership in the single market as she accepts as set that that would require precisely accepting that. But I doubt that is going to be the tune at the end. Right now the proposal is for a separate free trade agreement to be worked out alongside the Brexit treaty - but that proposal has already been shot down by Tusk (et al.) - so the way its going to be is that the Brexit treaty is negotiated and at some point in the future free trade negotiations will start which will end up with the UK having to decide whether to be part of the EEA or not.

 

[Kyriakos]

The ECB and the EU bureaucracy did nothing to the Greek that the Greek government did not agree to - that the choices to be made by the Greek government were not good either way does not mean there was no sovereign decision (the same as it was sovereign decisions leading to the crisis) and the Greek situation is not indicative of removal of sovereignty - unless you count not having control over the printing press there - but that was a sovereign decision by the then Greek government when joining the Euro establishing a multinational central bank and the current government when not leaving. That you do not like the equally sovereign decisions by the majority of other EU member states with regards to Greece does not make it a EU as much as a European story. I agree that the way it was and is being treated is all sorts of wrong (we won't necessarily agree on what is wrong though) - I strongly disagree that it proves that the EU is a sovereignty guzzling monster. The drivers there are the Greek government alongside the other EU governments - the EU bureaucracy is neither driver of enforcement nor driver of policy here. Neither is the ECB - although there atleast is something to it as that central bank now follows policies that a Greek national bank would not. Again though this is not some thing that sneaked up on anybody but every single involved country made the decision to join the Euro - none woke suddenly to a situation were their currency was removed from them without their consent.

This is not rational. How is it not trumping of sovereignty to use the european central bank (that we are PART of) to strangulate our banks so as to send an ultimatum to force yet MORE loans to us? And to DENY our own minister of finance to be part of decisions of the Eurogroup, which again we are PART of? Isn't this EU making up rules as it goes along, and apply them at whim? Isn't Filand not forced to take ruinous loans just cause it is usefull as a german vassal? Are Estonia and Slovakia anything reasonably said to be needed to take part in any deal? Their gdp's are those of a town.

I mean, if you don't even accept that as an action of a crooked false-union, i think you haven't been paying attention (as Ramsay Bolton would say as well...).

And while talking about this on a web forum achieves absolutely nothing, the fact is (not an alt fact) that the EU was collapsed after it became run by Germany with its nice satellites and micro-state clients. Compare it to how it was before.

 

[Cheetah]

sign a treaty with EFTA members

Just to have pointed it out: Norway is not at all interested in having the UK as a member of EFTA. There will be a steep price attached for that to happen.

the fact is (not an alt fact) that the EU was collapsed after it became run by Germany with its nice satellites and micro-state clients.

Fact!?

The EU hasn't collapsed.
It's not run by Germany.
France, Denmark, Czechia, Poland, et al. are not German satellites.
Neither is Luxembourg or any other microstates German clients.

If you're going to try to emphasise a fact, you've got to leave out the bull crap and insults! At least for one entire sentence!

 

[Yeekim]

Thread needs this song:

Are Estonia and Slovakia anything reasonably said to be needed to take part in any deal? Their gdp's are those of a town.

Right. The EU would clearly be a lot more fair and democratic if Greece could just have Estonia and Slovakia finance itself without needing their consent.

Please kindly refer to the message in the video above.

 

[Kyriakos]

K. And you both can always refer to my note of how useless it is to bother posting on a web forum on this matter, as if anyone here can change something or matters re this.

 

[ori]

Just to have pointed it out: Norway is not at all interested in having the UK as a member of EFTA. There will be a steep price attached for that to happen.

Oh I am sure there are no freebies, especially if that becomes the escape hatch for the UK to get into the common market - as that would provide all EFTA states a hell of a leverage over the UK.
The situation right now is interesting atleast - though I suspect there re going to be only losers when all is said and done, some more so than others though.

Re: Greece: the ECB is not adopting policies that a Greek central bank would - I already said that much - in order to get that, Greece needs to have its own central bank. Its not rational to expect having a multinational central bank and then getting the policies that one country wants, even needs if it is contrary to the wants and (political needs) of the majority of other countries. Yes Greece lost part of its sovereignty - when it joined the Euro - but that was part of a sovereign decision by the Greek government at the time.