[BTS] Corporation costs and benefits

[Magnot]

I'm new both to the forum and to Civ IV. I've had the game on my shelf for years, but never really got around to playing it until now. I'm presently in my first game as the Germans under Bismarck, and approaching the industrial revolution.

In the IGN review of BTS, Steve Butts asserts that the maintenance costs of corporations far outweigh their benefits. Is this true? If it was true, have subsequent patches changed the position of corporations in the game, or are they still problematic?

 

[Radio Noer]

If running Environmentalism maybe but if it's in your Wall Street city with Free Market and courthouses it can be a net gain of gold (in my limited experience)

 

[s.bernbaum]

I am not familiar with IGN review of BTS myself but others have posted advice from it and, basically, IGN does not know anything about CIV. Properly managed corps will always have their benefits outweigh their costs. Furthermore, as Radio_Noer says, if you put the corps HQ in your Wallstreet city, which should also have bank and the other gold booster buildings, it will actually increase your GPT not decrease it, assuming that you are managing your trade for resources that the corps uses properly.

 

[Archbob]

You can get so any specialists with the food corps. It definately outweighs the costs.

 

[Um the Muse]

There is one "cost" that may mean you shouldn't run corps, and that is not being able to run State Property, one of the best civics for production. Depending on your goals, SP might be better than corps.

Btw, there are a lot of jokes about IGN; their "strategies" are horrible (from what I hear).

 

[vranasm]

corps are great usually only for spaceship victories because that victory condition offers enough turns to payback the costs of setting up the proper infrastructure.

for military victories it's always SP>corps if you let the game run so long.

 

[Seraiel]

I am not familiar with IGN review of BTS myself but others have posted advice from it and, basically, IGN does not know anything about CIV. Properly managed corps will always have their benefits outweigh their costs. Furthermore, as Radio_Noer says, if you put the corps HQ in your Wallstreet city, which should also have bank and the other gold booster buildings, it will actually increase your GPT not decrease it, assuming that you are managing your trade for resources that the corps uses properly.

Depends imho if you expand the Corp to foreign Civs or only keep it to your own cities. Even with WS and every multiplier building, maintenance is higher then the +12g you gain, a size 30 city costs as much as 70g maintenance with a Corp (having a CH of course) . Supporting that, would be my experience, that I always have to drop my slider when expanding the corp, even though more cottages are getting worked.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

State property is such an amazing civic that in most cases ( in my games ) corps aren't worth the hassle ( which is a lot of micromanaging ).

I think diplo victories may be the best time to use corps.

 

[krikav]

There are 3 possible "endgame" routes to take in civ4.

Free market and corprations.
State property.
Enviromentalism (possibly with some corps).

Alll three have their pros and cons.
In my experience, state property is in most circumstances both best and easiest to play.

That beeing said, you can get absolutely huge cities with enviromentalism+sid's sushi.

Mining inc and sid's sushi is also excellent to spread around, if you happen to have a emprie with a truckload of small island cities, which doesn't have that many good tiles to work.

 

[JammerUno]

Low hammer, high commerce, large empires: Corps
High hammer, low commerce, large empires: SP
Small empires: enviro.

The fact of the matter is than lowish food and high early happiness combined with dry grasslands commonly dictates cottages over workshops. Early cottages then become good at some point, and SP doesn't have big advantages in that situation barring massive overseas expansion.

Enviro can be good for large empires, but requires you to put down windmills, which people usually don't overlook as an improvement.

 

[Abegweit]

I'm new both to the forum and to Civ IV. I've had the game on my shelf for years, but never really got around to playing it until now. I'm presently in my first game as the Germans under Bismarck, and approaching the industrial revolution.

In the IGN review of BTS, Steve Butts asserts that the maintenance costs of corporations far outweigh their benefits. Is this true? If it was true, have subsequent patches changed the position of corporations in the game, or are they still problematic?

The IGN review is utterly worthless. In many places it is factually wrong. For example it says that if you have a Holy City, then you have line of sight on any city with that religion. Uhhh... this was true in Vanilla. It's not now. On top of that the advice offered is a joke. He claims that the Inca are the worst civ when they are generally considered to be the best.

The play-through was awful. He started by teching Myst-Poly, got lucky and landed Hinduism. So what did he do next? Buddhism hadn't been founded yet so he went after that. When the attempt predictably failed, he went for Judaism! Insane. He lost the game. Playing Noble. 'Nuff said.

 

[Dr.Null]

Culture corps also have the side-benefit of allowing you to VERY quickly get newly conquered cities self-sufficient in terms of 3rd party culture pressure.

Under the Free Market civic, at Monarch difficulty, I find that Civ Jewelers pays for itself and more: it can pay enough to run my Science slider at 100%. This corp is incompatible with Mining Co, but is compatible with Creative Constructions. Together with Sid's Sushi, these three corps can propel you to a culture victory, or stave off virtually any culture pressure.

 

[s.bernbaum]

Depends imho if you expand the Corp to foreign Civs or only keep it to your own cities. Even with WS and every multiplier building, maintenance is higher then the +12g you gain, a size 30 city costs as much as 70g maintenance with a Corp (having a CH of course) . Supporting that, would be my experience, that I always have to drop my slider when expanding the corp, even though more cottages are getting worked.

I have had the opposite experience, running Mining and Sid's Sushi and not spreading them beyond my borders when I have used corps, I have actually been able to raise my research slider. Maybe it just has to do with how many of the resources are available to you and how many cities you have. I have only used corps when I had large empires and was pursuing non military victories. Even then, as I mentioned originally, managing the resource trading is important. There is a point where more resources will start cutting into your gpt. Up to that point, it increases, if you have enough cities running the corp. So, you have to consider the effect of the next trade before making it (or developing another instance of the resource in your own territory).

 

[Magnot]

Thanks for all the info! It looks like the real picture is much more complicated (and interesting) than I thought.

 

[krazybastid]

One of the good corps to get thats not to late for research is Aluminum Co. you get it with Rocketry. They can be a boost to your Science Output. I always do envirnmentalism but I stay with State Property till I found a corp. If you have to many corps and not enough resources to back them then in cities with like 3 corps a forth corp will try to replace another one I found conflicts with Sid's Sushi, Cerial Mills, and Standard Ethenol. Sids Sushi is real good for spreading Culture and that 2 extra food bonus. But Serial Mills is better in cities that are low food yield like near mountains and hills on Tectonic Maps. Windmills with Envirnmentalism is very good for that 2 extra commerce output unless you really need those hills for straight mining for hammers. I think Windmills and mines should be a balance depending on your food yield. For the most part its defenitlely best to have Sid Sushi definitely Civ Jewelers, I'd say definitely Aluminum Corp. And If you can Cerial Mills for those cities that need the 4 food instead of 2. I'd say for the most part it is better to run corps if you can than run State Property.

 

[Infantry#14]

Has anyone found that when you spread sid sushi in your cities and after your cities grow by several pop, the city governor will default your citizens to limit further growth (even when you have +20 happiness available in each city and a positive income at 100% science slider)? This feature is annoying because I want to maximize growth without micromanagement in 20+ cities.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

try emphasizing food. The governor should stop doing that then.