Budget Supercommittee Fails.

[Crezth]

I love the fact that Patroklos goes straight to the source to back up his (her?) points, and everyone else cites the opinions of Democratic legislators to back up theirs. Conservatives are called "the right" for a reason

Posting a link and then saying "it's basic math" is totally better than quoting a bipartisan committee's analysis of something.

Is it called "the right" because it consistently gets relegated to the trash heap of history? or what.

 

[Mise]

I love the fact that Patroklos goes straight to the source to back up his (her?) points, and everyone else cites the opinions of Democratic legislators to back up theirs. Conservatives are called "the right" for a reason

But seriously, the failure of the super-congress is a good thing. It means that Republicans and Democrats alike have to see their sacred cows get slaughtered as a consequence of their unwillingness to compromise, and we won't be raising taxes in a recession (which would be economic suicide).

The recession ended 2 years ago.

 

[Patroklos]

Yeah, Republicans did propose some additional tax revenue, but they demanded that it be accompanied by several trillions in additional tax cuts for the wealthy which would've actually made the deficit bigger..

Did you post this falsehood on purpose, or did you really not know or read the earlier thread where this lie is put to rest?

 

[Cutlass]

You don't think this was designed by Obama to happen? Aren't there triggered tax increases as well? Haven't they quarantined major social programs from the triggered cuts?

I'm not sure, but that was my reading earlier.

No tax increases are part of the program. That's the problem. You can't get to a budget without big tax increases. Not without crippling the poor, the middle, and the national economy.

 

[Disgustipated]

You are right, we are not facing Soviet Russia, that's why are Navy is half the size it was in 1991. Extrapolate to the rest of the services.

It would really be helpful, if people had some background knowledge in the things they use to make comparisons.

Yes it is much smaller than in 91, but remember that Reagan artificially pushed the size of the Navy up in the 80's to very high numbers, including reactivating the battleships.

 

[GenMarshall]

The recession ended 2 years ago.

Only from the economists. To us regular folks, were still in a recession and never left it.

 

[Ajidica]

Only from the economists. To us regular folks, were still in a recession and never left it.

A recession is a economic term with a set definition. As soon as you start changing terms to fit with what you think they should be, you are no better then Fox News.

 

[GenMarshall]

A recession is a economic term with a set definition. As soon as you start changing terms to fit with what you think they should be, you are no better then Fox News.

Does the average lay person know the actual definition?

 

[Ajidica]

Appeals to stupidity is neither a valid argument, nor is it a desirable course of action.

 

[warpus]

He has a bit of a point, the general public alters the meanings of words all the time, even if they have set definitions.. for example, the words atheist and agnostic have very specific meanings, but the general public simplifies things a lot and uses the words in slightly different ways. Same with the phrase "I could care less", which is the opposite of what it's supposed to be, or the new meaning of the word "literally", which was pretty much changed by the uninformed using it incorrectly en masse. I wouldn't quite say that the word "recession" means "bad economic period of time" quite yet, but it's getting there.

 

[GenMarshall]

Appeals to stupidity is neither a valid argument, nor is it a desirable course of action.

I'm still sticking to my guns that were still in a recession . Low consumer confidence and stubornly high unemployment kind of sleek for themselves that the economic situation has not improved. You can cry it's not a valid argument all you want, but you can't ignore the fact that most still perceive that were still in a recession.

But that's a different topic for another thread.

 

[Mise]

He has a bit of a point, the general public alters the meanings of words all the time, even if they have set definitions.. for example, the words atheist and agnostic have very specific meanings, but the general public simplifies things a lot and uses the words in slightly different ways. Same with the phrase "I could care less", which is the opposite of what it's supposed to be, or the new meaning of the word "literally", which was pretty much changed by the uninformed using it incorrectly en masse. I wouldn't quite say that the word "recession" means "bad economic period of time" quite yet, but it's getting there.

I don't take economic policy advice from the general public. The point of politics is to change minds, not to read them.

I'm still sticking to my guns that were still in a recession .

You are wrong.

 

[Ajidica]

but you can't ignore the fact that most still perceive that were still in a recession.

Most people could perceive Obama as a cactus, doesn't make it true.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

To anyone who stated: "My party is not to blame, it's all the other party's fault."

That is all

 

[GenMarshall]

You are wrong.

I would appreciate it if you explain why I am "wrong" instead of saying it bluntly .

 

[Mise]

I would appreciate it if you explain why I am "wrong" instead of saying it bluntly .

Because the recession ended 2 years ago.

"Recession" has two definitions, one that is the "layman's" definition, and one that is the technical, economic definition. The layman's definition, which you will often hear in the media, is two quarters or more of negative GDP growth. On this definition, the US economy emerged from recession in Q3, 2009. The technical, economic definition of a recession is the period between a peak and a trough in economic activity. This is the definition the NBER uses, with "economic activity" defined broadly to include GDP, unemployment, real income, etc. The NBER declared that the recession was over in Jun 2009.

On neither the "lay" definition, nor the "technical" definition is the US still in recession.

 

[GenMarshall]

Are you telling me that this is a jobless recovery of some kind? Because I still perceive that we never left the recession.

 

[Crezth]

Are you telling me that this is a jobless recovery of some kind? Because I still perceive that we never left the recession.

That is precisely what he's saying and I'm surprised that you're surprised at this. This is what OWS is protesting against, after all. We're out of the recession because the rich are still making money hand over fist.

 

[Mise]

Are you telling me that this is a jobless recovery of some kind? Because I still perceive that we never left the recession.

The US unemployment rate is definitely above its long term average, there's no disputing that. It's way above where it "should" be, and economic policy should focus on job creation (preferably through short-term fiscal stimulus, coupled with medium-term spending cuts and tax rises that don't kick in until, say, 2014). But unemployment isn't the only thing that matters. GDP growth and real household income are also important. Indeed, the "layman's" definition only cares about GDP growth, and doesn't mention unemployment at all...

And it's not like 9% unemployment is the end of the world either. France and Germany had unemployment rates higher than that for most of the 2000s, and yet people in France and Germany still find jobs, buy houses, get married, and live healthy, happy lives.

 

[GenMarshall]

France and Germany had unemployment rates higher than that for most of the 2000s, and yet people in France and Germany still find jobs, buy houses, get married, and live healthy, happy lives.

Unlike here where where my generation (Generation Y) are actually delaying adulthood because of this economic mess. Though I'd like to know hoe the French and Germans are able to find jobs dispite a high unemployment.