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Bug Reports and Technical Issues

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    I understand you but I think the less is more here. Represent African Slave trade microscopically with actual Slave unit and Classical Period Slavery macroscopically with the vanila Slavery civic allowing to build buildings with whip and adding to it special bonuses for slave related improvements such as mines, quarries and plantations.

    See, the easiest suggestion would be to adopt very thoroughly implemented slave feature in RFC-CW. Slaves there act as mini-GE, mini-GM, slow worker, can be settled to become house slaves, etc. But RFC-CW focuses on specific time period and specific map segment. For a global mod and 5000 years timeframe civic works better than slave unit. Maybe its less exiting but it does represent macroscopic nature of global mod fairly adequately! No need to run into so many potential complications for very dubious gains -- Slavery Civic is much more elegant but still very strong and different mechanic: the only time one can use infamous whip :whipped: and get those annoying slave revolts. Vanila Slavery mechanics is near perfect, please leave it as is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Whip hurry just doesn't work within the Society category though, because it gives Slavery this strong position throughout the whole game. That's why I moved it to Despotism. I agree the mechanic is good though and I definitely want to keep it.
     
  3. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Slavery had many economic disadvantages and we can somehow simulate them, so that human player has to chose between whip and economy.

    Also I have a question about Caste System. In some very real sense it is more of a Religious civic then Labor. And while Classes and Slavery was present in almost every ancient society across the globe -- only in India did Caste System develop to such a crystallized form still present even today. Don't you want to discourage other civs fro adopting it? Caste System is a candidate for the very first civic (in the history of DoC) which can depend on a particular religion. Meaning this civic provides no benefits under any religion except for the cities with Hinduism. Potentially this concept of particular religion enhancing or negating the effects of the particular civic can provide interesting solutions. For example Monasticism may provide no benefits under Islam. Or Zoroastrianism enhancing Monarchy somehow and so on...
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  4. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Simperator Knoedel

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    In my modmod Slavery slows cottage growth and has a -10% research penalty attached to it. How's that?
     
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  5. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    So I have an idea which I think does exactly what you want. Instead of "can enslave the population" civs under Slavery civic must be able to enslave defeated barbarian units sometimes. So we can have Despotism where one can sacrifice population like China did during the construction of Great Wall but also Ancient Slave unit under Slavery. This Ancient Slave will be different from African Slave and will have only 2 abilities: in your cities it can be used for 20 hummers like mini GE, in foreign civs with Open Borders it can be used like mini GM for 40 gold coins. Very often killing barbarians can be very unrewarding experience -- you risk your units, which cannot be promoted after certain threshold. But now, under Slavery, in 25% cases defeated Barbarian Archer can be used as a slave and shipped to capital to harry a wonder, for example. Or sold for cash. Hunting Barbarians could be a fun way to achieve your goals. But if Barbarians capture your Slave it turns back to original Barbarian unit, full of vengeance! And switching from Slavery turns all the Ancient Slaves into Workers.
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Yeah, I'd like to do something like that in any case. There's three possible situational sources of slaves:
    - defeating barbarians
    - capturing enemy workers
    - capturing enemy cities

    I don't think even having all of them would be overpowered. The question is if that is enough. Especially for five that currently generate slaves for the Transatlantic trade.
     
  7. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Selling slaves in foreign cities should only be possible if that civ is running slavery as well.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    But I also want civs with Colonialism to use slaves in colonies without having to run Slavery.
     
  9. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    That's why Enslave and African Slaves will NOT work under Slavery, but under different (later days) civic.
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    And how do you get to buy slaves from say Mali or Congo?
     
  11. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Just like we have it now, via Diplo screen! For African slaves only. We should ban Sub African civs from producing regular (ancient) slaves, otherwise things will quickly get messy... :hide:
     
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    But would they also create slaves only from fighting barbarians? Or do they get the button on top of that? If so, why not also with Slavery? It seems the appropriate civic for creating and selling.
     
  13. BayDude

    BayDude Chieftain

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    Hi, when I install the mod (just the mod, not the other modules - I had some problems when I tried that, specifically with the Varietas Delectat). Everything seems to go fine during the installation. I get to the finish screen - if I have the launch button ticked, it then comes up with the first message. If I try and click on the icon, the second message comes up.

    The Beyond the Sword exe IS present, and normal beyond the sword loads fine, as does RFC Marathon. I am using the steam version. What can I do to fix the problem? Thanks in advance - this looks like a great mod.
     

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  14. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Yes that's true, but it feels like a new "Sub-Saharan" UP on top of the existing mechanic. For some reason I always long for systematic approach to all the civilizations, instead of creating rules with exceptions and then exceptions from exceptions :crazyeye: ...
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Welcome to DoC! Sorry that you had to start this off with a bug. Where did the link come from, did the installer create it for you or did you create it? Can you launch the mod through other methods, e.g. starting BtS without mods and then choosing DoC from the mods menu, or double clicking one of the scenarios in the PrivateMaps folder?

    Agreed, that's why I'm trying to roll this into the Slavery civic in a way that feels natural but avoids stuff like European importing Ottoman slaves to the New World. But apparently we got nothing?
     
  16. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Simperator Knoedel

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    Maybe you should only be able to buy slaves from civs that are at least one era behind you?
     
    borhap88 and Tigranes like this.
  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    That might work, I need to think about this more.
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Okay, how about this instead: while running Slavery, regular slaves can be acquired using the following ways:
    - capturing a city: number of slaves proportional to gold plundered (good indicator of city value and past conquests)
    - capturing a worker: turns into a slave instead
    - defeating a barbarian unit: ~25% chance, or maybe depending on XP value

    Regular slaves work like workers, count for the worker limit, and can contribute production to a building. They cannot be traded.

    Furthermore, while running Slavery or Colonialism, native slaves can be acquired by defeating native units (~50% chance). Native slaves can be traded, only civs running Colonialism can buy them. They work like workers and count for the worker limit. In the new world, they additionally can build slave plantations (+1 production, +2 commerce, +1 unhappiness) or join cities (+2 production +1 unhappiness).

    Aztecs still have their special type of Slave from the UP, which they can additionally acquire from proper civs, plus probably a higher base chance.

    The "Enslave" button is removed.

    This way, no special rules about sub saharan Africa are required anymore. Native units are present mostly in sub saharan Africa and Mesoamerica, which are both appropriate for that kind of slavery. Classical mediterranean, Muslim or Steppe civs can still make use of their slave units without undesired interaction with the colonial trade system. The ability to use slaves in colonies is now also not hard coded to any specific civs but instead relies only on civics and location.
     
  19. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Civ4ScreenShot0106.JPG Taoism URV display glitch :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Can you upload the save?
     

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