Whip hurry just doesn't work within the Society category though, because it gives Slavery this strong position throughout the whole game. That's why I moved it to Despotism. I agree the mechanic is good though and I definitely want to keep it.
Bug Reports and Technical Issues
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 10,408
Slavery had many economic disadvantages and we can somehow simulate them, so that human player has to chose between whip and economy.
Also I have a question about Caste System. In some very real sense it is more of a Religious civic then Labor. And while Classes and Slavery was present in almost every ancient society across the globe -- only in India did Caste System develop to such a crystallized form still present even today. Don't you want to discourage other civs fro adopting it? Caste System is a candidate for the very first civic (in the history of DoC) which can depend on a particular religion. Meaning this civic provides no benefits under any religion except for the cities with Hinduism. Potentially this concept of particular religion enhancing or negating the effects of the particular civic can provide interesting solutions. For example Monasticism may provide no benefits under Islam. Or Zoroastrianism enhancing Monarchy somehow and so on...
Also I have a question about Caste System. In some very real sense it is more of a Religious civic then Labor. And while Classes and Slavery was present in almost every ancient society across the globe -- only in India did Caste System develop to such a crystallized form still present even today. Don't you want to discourage other civs fro adopting it? Caste System is a candidate for the very first civic (in the history of DoC) which can depend on a particular religion. Meaning this civic provides no benefits under any religion except for the cities with Hinduism. Potentially this concept of particular religion enhancing or negating the effects of the particular civic can provide interesting solutions. For example Monasticism may provide no benefits under Islam. Or Zoroastrianism enhancing Monarchy somehow and so on...
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Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
In my modmod Slavery slows cottage growth and has a -10% research penalty attached to it. How's that?
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 10,408
So I have an idea which I think does exactly what you want. Instead of "can enslave the population" civs under Slavery civic must be able to enslave defeated barbarian units sometimes. So we can have Despotism where one can sacrifice population like China did during the construction of Great Wall but also Ancient Slave unit under Slavery. This Ancient Slave will be different from African Slave and will have only 2 abilities: in your cities it can be used for 20 hummers like mini GE, in foreign civs with Open Borders it can be used like mini GM for 40 gold coins. Very often killing barbarians can be very unrewarding experience -- you risk your units, which cannot be promoted after certain threshold. But now, under Slavery, in 25% cases defeated Barbarian Archer can be used as a slave and shipped to capital to harry a wonder, for example. Or sold for cash. Hunting Barbarians could be a fun way to achieve your goals. But if Barbarians capture your Slave it turns back to original Barbarian unit, full of vengeance! And switching from Slavery turns all the Ancient Slaves into Workers.
Yeah, I'd like to do something like that in any case. There's three possible situational sources of slaves:
- defeating barbarians
- capturing enemy workers
- capturing enemy cities
I don't think even having all of them would be overpowered. The question is if that is enough. Especially for five that currently generate slaves for the Transatlantic trade.
- defeating barbarians
- capturing enemy workers
- capturing enemy cities
I don't think even having all of them would be overpowered. The question is if that is enough. Especially for five that currently generate slaves for the Transatlantic trade.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Selling slaves in foreign cities should only be possible if that civ is running slavery as well.
Hi, when I install the mod (just the mod, not the other modules - I had some problems when I tried that, specifically with the Varietas Delectat). Everything seems to go fine during the installation. I get to the finish screen - if I have the launch button ticked, it then comes up with the first message. If I try and click on the icon, the second message comes up.
The Beyond the Sword exe IS present, and normal beyond the sword loads fine, as does RFC Marathon. I am using the steam version. What can I do to fix the problem? Thanks in advance - this looks like a great mod.
The Beyond the Sword exe IS present, and normal beyond the sword loads fine, as does RFC Marathon. I am using the steam version. What can I do to fix the problem? Thanks in advance - this looks like a great mod.
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Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 10,408
Yes that's true, but it feels like a new "Sub-Saharan" UP on top of the existing mechanic. For some reason I always long for systematic approach to all the civilizations, instead of creating rules with exceptions and then exceptions from exceptions
...Welcome to DoC! Sorry that you had to start this off with a bug. Where did the link come from, did the installer create it for you or did you create it? Can you launch the mod through other methods, e.g. starting BtS without mods and then choosing DoC from the mods menu, or double clicking one of the scenarios in the PrivateMaps folder?
Agreed, that's why I'm trying to roll this into the Slavery civic in a way that feels natural but avoids stuff like European importing Ottoman slaves to the New World. But apparently we got nothing?Yes that's true, but it feels like a new "Sub-Saharan" UP on top of the existing mechanic. For some reason I always long for systematic approach to all the civilizations, instead of creating rules with exceptions and then exceptions from exceptions
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
Maybe you should only be able to buy slaves from civs that are at least one era behind you?
Okay, how about this instead: while running Slavery, regular slaves can be acquired using the following ways:
- capturing a city: number of slaves proportional to gold plundered (good indicator of city value and past conquests)
- capturing a worker: turns into a slave instead
- defeating a barbarian unit: ~25% chance, or maybe depending on XP value
Regular slaves work like workers, count for the worker limit, and can contribute production to a building. They cannot be traded.
Furthermore, while running Slavery or Colonialism, native slaves can be acquired by defeating native units (~50% chance). Native slaves can be traded, only civs running Colonialism can buy them. They work like workers and count for the worker limit. In the new world, they additionally can build slave plantations (+1 production, +2 commerce, +1 unhappiness) or join cities (+2 production +1 unhappiness).
Aztecs still have their special type of Slave from the UP, which they can additionally acquire from proper civs, plus probably a higher base chance.
The "Enslave" button is removed.
This way, no special rules about sub saharan Africa are required anymore. Native units are present mostly in sub saharan Africa and Mesoamerica, which are both appropriate for that kind of slavery. Classical mediterranean, Muslim or Steppe civs can still make use of their slave units without undesired interaction with the colonial trade system. The ability to use slaves in colonies is now also not hard coded to any specific civs but instead relies only on civics and location.
- capturing a city: number of slaves proportional to gold plundered (good indicator of city value and past conquests)
- capturing a worker: turns into a slave instead
- defeating a barbarian unit: ~25% chance, or maybe depending on XP value
Regular slaves work like workers, count for the worker limit, and can contribute production to a building. They cannot be traded.
Furthermore, while running Slavery or Colonialism, native slaves can be acquired by defeating native units (~50% chance). Native slaves can be traded, only civs running Colonialism can buy them. They work like workers and count for the worker limit. In the new world, they additionally can build slave plantations (+1 production, +2 commerce, +1 unhappiness) or join cities (+2 production +1 unhappiness).
Aztecs still have their special type of Slave from the UP, which they can additionally acquire from proper civs, plus probably a higher base chance.
The "Enslave" button is removed.
This way, no special rules about sub saharan Africa are required anymore. Native units are present mostly in sub saharan Africa and Mesoamerica, which are both appropriate for that kind of slavery. Classical mediterranean, Muslim or Steppe civs can still make use of their slave units without undesired interaction with the colonial trade system. The ability to use slaves in colonies is now also not hard coded to any specific civs but instead relies only on civics and location.
FinalLegendZero
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2013
- Messages
- 548
Got another case of randomly poking around some of the files turning up some errors. This time, it regards new capital locations upon respawn, and new capitals that are automatically changed for the AI:
-Italy's new capital and respawn capital are marked at tile (59, 41), which is the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. The notation suggests that the coordinates should be for Rome's tile, which is actually (60, 44).
-Ethiopia's respawn capital is marked at tile (72, 36), which is in the Red Sea. The notation says it's supposed to be Addis Ababa, but I don't know what the tile for that should be.
-Scandanavia's new capital is marked at tile (63, 59), which is Stockholm's tile, but its respawn capital is marked at (63, 58), which is Kalmar's tile. I'm reporting this as an error because the notation says that both the new capital and the respawn capital are supposed to be Stockholm.
EDIT: In addition, the Mughals' respawn capital is at tile (85, 37), but its respawn core doesn't include that tile in its area ((86, 37) to (94, 43), excepting the tiles in Tibet).
-Italy's new capital and respawn capital are marked at tile (59, 41), which is the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. The notation suggests that the coordinates should be for Rome's tile, which is actually (60, 44).
-Ethiopia's respawn capital is marked at tile (72, 36), which is in the Red Sea. The notation says it's supposed to be Addis Ababa, but I don't know what the tile for that should be.
-Scandanavia's new capital is marked at tile (63, 59), which is Stockholm's tile, but its respawn capital is marked at (63, 58), which is Kalmar's tile. I'm reporting this as an error because the notation says that both the new capital and the respawn capital are supposed to be Stockholm.
EDIT: In addition, the Mughals' respawn capital is at tile (85, 37), but its respawn core doesn't include that tile in its area ((86, 37) to (94, 43), excepting the tiles in Tibet).
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