1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Bug Reports and Technical Issues

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,718
    Isn't that how it used to work? That if you're shaky or less nations have a chance to respawn from under you? I could have sworn I saw something about that in the Rise and Fall code.
     
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    "Used to work" when? I would like to find out if this belief is based in anything that the game tells you.
     
  3. Zaddy

    Zaddy Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    237
    Honestly, now that I think about it, I'm not sure where I got this idea from, but I don't believe the game ever explicitly says it. It would be nice if it was enumerated somewhere in the game, though! If it's WAD than my apologies, disregard.
     
    Leoreth likes this.
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    To be clear, I'm not trying to gotcha you here. It's just that I have seen multiple people report situations with the explicit expectation to be safe against respawns above shaky, both for scenarios that were intended and those that weren't.

    It's not as simple, in any case. First of all, the game determines all cities that can potentially flip. Those are usually those inside their respawn area (sometimes not coextensive with its core), but if it's from a collapse it is limited to the cities owned by the collapsing civilisation. Then, a rule is applied that comes closest to this belief: if you are unstable or worse, the AI will get all of those cities. If you are shaky, the AI will get the city that will become its capital, cities that are in the core of the respawning civ and not in the core of the owning civ, or cities that are colonies of the owning civ. If you are stable, the AI will still get the city that will become its capital only.

    Another factor is that before anyone has discovered Nationalism, all those thresholds are lowered by one, so you are safer against respawns. Conversely, respawns that involve only AIs have those thresholds reduced by one, to make the world more dynamic.

    This is not the final outcome, however. A respawn can still fail at this stage. If only succeeds if it includes at least two cities, OR all cities that are available to flip (i.e. if only one is possible, one is enough). But, once a civ has cleared this threshold, it will receive all other cities in the respawn area if it is able to flip all but two of them, regardless of the above limitations. This is mostly to avoid cultural bordergore and messy situations where the respawning civ has been controlled by multiple other civilisations. But it can mean that another civ that is nearby and susceptible to a respawn can wind up sweeping some cities you control into the respawn, even if they themselves would otherwise be safe.

    So, it's a lot more complicated than a simple stability gate. Why is it that complicated? Experience has shown that respawns need some leeway to be successful, or otherwise they end up being semi-dead, nonfunctioning civs instead, which is not desirable.

    The flipside is that the conditions are harder to understand. I see the appeal for an easily communicated catch-all condition, because you would be sure about whether you are safe, or not.

    But first of all I would like to make sure that it's not the game documentation itself that reinforces this misconception. Might just be an urban legend that is reinforced on the forums instead, though. Still, not sure how to make this more transparent. Maybe it needs to be communicated more clearly after the fact at least? Maybe the messages should be "China has declared independence from your empire!" and "China has declared independence from the Mongol empire!" etc. to make clear who the weak link was, followed by "Your cities of X, Y, Z have joined China in their independence from Mongolia!" or something. That at least would make it clear that it's Mongol instability that caused this.

    I do plan to give a bit more leeway to contesting these city flips, in the same way you can for initial city flips, when I rewrite civ spawns in the Rise and Fall rewrite, by making them share much of the same code and rules. That should make the whole thing less frustrating, regardless.

    (I haven't actually looked into this particular case yet, though.)
     
    need my speed, 1SDAN, Zaddy and 3 others like this.
  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    I'm having a hard time finding the reason for this. I have asked for help, but otherwise I will not further debug it considering the game is over and you lost by score.
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    So here it's the Dutch respawn (forgot that element when writing up the above essay). I guess the "capital spot even flips on stable" and "one city is enough to respawn if that is all the possible cities" rules kind of unfairly combine in those cases because it essentially means that civs like the Netherlands are always able to respawn on stable.

    I will push a change that disables the "capital spot even flips on stable" rule if the potential capital is the only city.
     
  7. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    2,165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    European Union (Magna Batavia)
    Why so, what is the reasoning behind this being unfair? I would say the fairness (if you view it as that) lies in 'no civilisation can respawn if I am stable', not in 'no one-city civilisation can respawn if I am stable'. I.e. a blanke rule earlier posters were talking about (and to be sure, we are talking about respawns in specific, not historical spawns).
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Because for respawns that include more than one city, you need at least two cities for the respawn to succeed. In other words, just being able to flip the capital (which is possible even at stable) is not enough in those cases, and the respawn fails, barring other factors. One city restarts are different because they always succeed on stable.
     
  9. hnrysml

    hnrysml Warlord

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    222
    I decided to play for the first time in a while, redownloading both the main installer and the recent patch. I installed with all modules and everything went without error including extracting and applying the patch, but when loading for the first time it didn't run bc there were a whole bunch of xml errors, the first of which i will link an image of. I will try reinstalling now in case there was some undetected error in that process but it seems like a problem with the corporation xmls not matching their schema according to the error message.

    Edit: Reinstalling then running the full game with modules from the installer without applying the patch also resulted in this same xml error
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    Methodius and stillblackadder like this.
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Oh, I see. Will provide a fix soon. In the meantime, it should work as long as you do not install any modules.

    By the way, you don't need to apply the patch after a fresh install. The installer is up to date with the latest code. I provide the patch only for people who already have the mod installed and don't want to download it again entirely.
     
    hnrysml likes this.
  11. Methodius

    Methodius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    I'm also trying to play again for the first time in a while, and I'm having the exact same error messages. The first time I installed the modules, but then I uninstalled CivIV BtS and reinstalled and installed DoC without modules, and got the same errors concerning the XML. I even tried downloading Dawn of Civilization Core instead of the other installer, and had the same problem. I get the error about Civ4CorporationInfo.xml, then an error the CORPORATION_TRADING_COMPANY in info class was incorrect, then messages that all the civic info classes are incorrect (e.g. CIVIC_MONASTICISM, CIVIC_DESPOTISM, CIVIC_CLERGY, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    When did you try? It should be fixed in the installer you can currently download.

    Edit: I just downloaded and tried the installer and it worked without issues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  13. Methodius

    Methodius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    I tried again just now and had the same problem. Maybe it's related to my copy of BtS? I'm using steam, but I'm using the original release beta. Do you have any suggestions?
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    No, have you deleted your local installation before? Are you sure the latest installation is actually the one being loaded?
     
  15. Methodius

    Methodius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    I tried again now, after uninstalling the mod and downloading the installer fresh from the link on the "Welcome to Dawn of Civilization" thread. I still get the same errors.

    Here are some of the errors I get:
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Yes. Those are exactly the errors I fixed before I reuploaded the installer, and I did exactly the same steps when I tested it yesterday. Are you sure you are not using a cached installer?

    Does anyone else still have the same error?
     
    stillblackadder likes this.
  17. hnrysml

    hnrysml Warlord

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    222
    Sorry I haven't replied promptly about my experience with the error, but I went to install like you suggested without any modules, and have a notification saying that "Components exist" and all the modules are already installed on my computer. I find this strange as I have no duplicate copies of RFCDoC, and my understanding is that all files of relevant components should be entirely within the folder for the mod.
    However, as you indicated the game loads perfectly now that i have installed it without any modules.
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    That happens with the Windows registry sometimes. That is, the registry believes the mod is installed when you have manually deleted it. You should be able to properly "uninstall" it using the installer or the uninstaller that comes with the mod directory, but it shouldn't make a difference.

    Feel free to install the additional modules now, it should work with the latest installer.
     
    hnrysml likes this.
  19. stillblackadder

    stillblackadder Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    For me the error is fixed, everything works with all modules. Thank you!
     
    Leoreth likes this.
  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,882
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Thanks for confirming.

    @Methodius I really don't want to shift this problem to you but I don't think I can help you right now.
     

Share This Page