Bush Refuses To Let WH Officials Testify Under Oath

Hell, if our duly elected leaders had more respect for we the people they serve, this country wouldn't be so polarized today. Uniter, not divider?:lol:

Utterly incorrect. A president leads, he doesnt cave into one side or the other just to be popular. The popularity contest was the election and he won both of his. I, for one, think Bush has the utmost respect for the American people.

Clinton let 31 of his top advisers go under oath before Congress 47 times and never refused Congress' request. Bush has only allowed one White House official go under oath before Congress.

Just for those of you who like to play the "Clinton did it too" game . . . here is W's cahnce to live up to the legend.

/shrug. I guess that just means Bush must be that much smarter than clinton.

The PRESIDENT, not the WH or the AG has the right to fire U.S. attorneys. Bush has acted like he didn't even know the inside scoop of why they were fired. Neither the President, the WH, nor the AG has the right to obstruct justice and if these firings appear to have been done for that purpose, then it is, at the very least, a matter that can be investigated by Congress.

GWB already spoke to this in his address. Didnt you hear it?
 
My point is that Nixon was impeached for less.

No...he wasnt.

Why do you want to bet on whether or not Bush gets away with abuses of power? You lose either way. :rolleyes:

What part of "I dont agree with you that he is abusing his power" do you not understand? I dont think we are losing at all.
 
No...he wasnt.



What part of "I dont agree with you that he is abusing his power" do you not understand? I dont think we are losing at all.
So, for the record, your committed opinion is that it is not a matter of public interest whether an administration interferes with and fires public servants in order to protect its own corrupt politicians and partisan interests? And further, that it is not a matter of public interest whether members of the administration can ever be compelled to give evidence in court? This is a non-issue, is it?
 
Whats wrong with it? It promotes paranoia and instability.

Actually, no, carrying out a political purge of a cadre of federal employees who are supposed to be impartial and free from political influence is what causes paranoia and instability.

By firing attorneys based on a ranking that explicitly involves loyalty and all-too-implicitly involves the degree to which attorneys refused to back down from cases involving Republicans, Bush has called into question the impartiality of the attorneys who were NOT fired.

So, for the record, your committed opinion is that it is not a matter of public interest whether an administration interferes with and fires public servants in order to protect its own corrupt politicians and partisan interests? And further, that it is not a matter of public interest whether members of the administration can ever be compelled to give evidence in court? This is a non-issue, is it?

Regardless of whatever else Mob is in denial about, it's already an established fact that Alberto Gonzales lied to a Congressional committee about the reason for the firings, which is a felony whether or not he was under oath.

I'd like to see him spin that into a "non-issue." Maybe he can borrow some buzzwords from Snow, talk about "hazy memories" or something like that.

EDIT: Oops, I see that MobBoss has already addressed this key point:

I dont see a trail of lies like you do, largely because I am not a paranoid conspiracy believer.

Oh snap. I guess I got put in my place! Silly people who have actually read about this scandal and thus do not embarrass themselves every time they open their mouths about it!
 
Link it up for us. But again, so what if he did? Again, they serve at the whim of the president - he doenst need a reason to fire them and put someone else in their place. If they are being perceived as not emphasizing what the 'bushies' want emphasized, then does not the WH have the perogative to fire them?

Again, I am not here to say them being fired was fair or unfair, but merely to put forth the point that yes indeed, the WH has the perogative to fire such people that it hires.

Hmmm the email covers a lot
though when combined with the "other" emails it most certainly points out ot roves firing for poltical reasons including that they wanted to create "ripples". though there are in fact much more documentation as well as missing emails

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002779.php
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/sampsonrove-email/

1173998679Leaked%20email%20-%20Sampson%202005%20copy.jpg
 
Regardless of whatever else Mob is in denial about, it's already an established fact that Alberto Gonzales lied to a Congressional committee about the reason for the firings, which is a felony whether or not he was under oath.

If this is true then why is he still around? I mean they got Scooter Libby didnt they (albeit is wasnt the charge of outing an agent) so if the evidence is just so darn direct against Gonzalez then why isnt he in leg irons right now?

Answer. Perhaps your wrong on the entire issue. Again.
 
Hmmm the email covers a lot
though when combined with the "other" emails it most certainly points out ot roves firing for poltical reasons including that they wanted to create "ripples". though there are in fact much more documentation as well as missing emails

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002779.php
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/sampsonrove-email/

1173998679Leaked&

I will merely point out that that is not an email from Karl Rove at all. Apparently you directly lied to us in your earlier post when you said it was Karl Roves email. And it most certainly doesnt indicate to me what was earlier alledged in regards to Rove at all.

Here is your earlier statement for reference:

I assume you've seen the email by KARL ROVE saying they should fire the those whom are not "loyal bushies" ?

Nice spin. But by giving the email all you did was show how incorrect you were to begin with. It wasnt from Karl Rove at all, and while the term 'loyal bushies' is used, you directly take it out of context. It was never said to fire people because they were not 'loyal bushies' at all. Typical.

Is this the measure of your proof? Stating things incorrectly and not factually? Thats precisely why I am not really that concerned and call this the non-event of the year. Because if thats how you 'judge' the evidence at hand, they have nothing to worry about at all.
 
I will merely point out that that is not an email from Karl Rove at all. Apparently you directly lied to us in your earlier post when you said it was Karl Roves email. And it most certainly doesnt indicate to me what was earlier alledged in regards to Rove at all.

Here is your earlier statement for reference:



Nice spin. But by giving the email all you did was show how incorrect you were to begin with. It wasnt from Karl Rove at all, and while the term 'loyal bushies' is used, you directly take it out of context. It was never said to fire people because they were not 'loyal bushies' at all. Typical.

My apologies I should have specified that the journalistic analysis and breaking news stories are pointing this to ROVE. Heres the anaylsis
again this was a mistake from reading the analysis and not the leaked emails.
(Of course i could simply employ Mobboss thick skin defence. :p )
EDIT: which would be to state that Rove had no involvement whatsoever ?

The e-mails, which were first reported by ABC News, also are likely to fuel a congressional inquiry into the matter, raising new questions for Rove. At the time Rove was inquiring about the status of the plan to fire U.S. attorneys, he was himself the subject of a criminal investigation by one of those prosecutors: Patrick Fitzgerald

The e-mails, obtained by NEWSWEEK, appear to show that Rove had a greater level of involvement in the dismissal of the prosecutors than the White House has previously acknowledged. The messages may also raise new questions for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.

The three e-mails also show that presidential adviser Karl Rove asked the White House counsel's office in early January 2005 whether it planned to proceed with a proposal to fire all 93 federal prosecutors. Officials said yesterday that Rove was opposed to that idea but wanted to know whether Justice planned to carry it out.

That puts Sampson and Gonzales discussing the idea way back in December, 2004.

Perino stuck to the line yesterday that the whole idea of firings all 93 U.S. attorneys started with White House counsel Harriet Miers. Perino says that "Karl Rove has a recollection of hearing it from Harriet, and thinking it was a bad idea. There is nothing in this e-mail that changes that.... [It] does not contradict nor is it inconsistent with what we have said."

Now, Miers didn't even take over as White House counsel until early February, 2005. But Perino said that in the months between her being named to the spot (November, 2004) and actually starting work, "she would have been thinking about transition issues." But Perino admits that it's "not clear when the idea first originates, but the bottom line is, the idea is never pursued."

But let's step back here for a moment.

Whether the idea of firing all the sitting U.S. attorneys was originally Miers' or Rove's brainchild or not is mostly a red herring at this point. Whatever the original seed of the purge, it clearly became an opportunity for the administration to push out federal prosecutors who were not "loyal Bushies." That's the idea that really matters. And Rove was involved in that effort from its first steps.

1174482845sampsonmiersrove&
 
The e-mails, which were first reported by ABC News, also are likely to fuel a congressional inquiry into the matter, raising new questions for Rove. At the time Rove was inquiring about the status of the plan to fire U.S. attorneys, he was himself the subject of a criminal investigation by one of those prosecutors: Patrick Fitzgerald

Ah...thats rather misleading. Was Rove ever charged with anything? No. Was Patrick Fitzgerald fired? No.

No conspiracy there.

Add in the fact that allegedly Rove thought it a bad idea to fire them all would indicate to me that he was in favor of restraint where such firings were concerned, not the mastermind looking for a purge.

it clearly became an opportunity for the administration to push out federal prosecutors who were not "loyal Bushies." That's the idea that really matters. And Rove was involved in that effort from its first steps

Again, thats another very misleading statement. There is nothing in the material you have provided that indicates anyone was fired for not being 'loyal bushies' at all. The term is used directly out of context of its original use in the memo (not from Karl Rove btw).

Someones spending too much time on the left wing blogs and thinking that the information contained therein is 'balanced' in any way, shape or form. If anything, these last few posts have shown me the extent the left will go to in order to convince itself that there is a conspriacy out there to cover up.
 
Someones spending too much time on the left wing blogs and thinking that the information contained therein is 'balanced' in any way, shape or form. If anything, these last few posts have shown me the extent the left will go to in order to convince itself that there is a conspriacy out there to cover up.

You're accusing me of being in denial while you are using the fact that Rove was never charged to elide the PERTINENT fact that he repeatedly and publicly denied that he leaked Plame's name, which turned out to be a bold-faced lie?

Yeah, I think we're done here.

This thread will be better served by people just posting news items rather than responding to MobBoss's bellyaching and trolling. I've corrected your mistaken allegations here, here and here and you keep on makin' em, in some cases repeating the same lies I debunked. So tell me why I should bother continuing? I should just ignore you.

You're not fishing any more replies out of me.
 
You're accusing me of being in denial while you are using the fact that Rove was never charged to elide the PERTINENT fact that he repeatedly and publicly denied that he leaked Plame's name, which turned out to be a bold-faced lie?

One second. If he did what you say - why didnt Fitzgerald prosecute him like he did Libby?

Yeah, I think we're done here.

Yeah, I think we are. I deal in fact - you deal in fiction.

This thread will be better served by people just posting news items rather than responding to MobBoss's bellyaching and trolling.

Sorry, PP...its not 'bellyaching and trolling' to point out the falsehood of saying things like "KARL ROVEs email said to fire those that are not 'loyal bushies'!

Apparently you cannot handle facts and counter-arguement in any form. Typical.

You're not fishing any more replies out of me. I've corrected your mistaken allegations here, here and here and you keep on makin' em. So tell me why I should bother continuing?

Its not my job. My job is to point out why the heck you are so wrong in your statements here. I think I have done a more than adequate job of it too.

Reminder: My bet remains open any time you want to take it.:lol:
 
Dems probing for amicable solution, but tell White House not to start shredding documents. Ouch, now that is a burn.

Congressman Waxman is only a few hours behind my talking points, which shows he's on the ball :smug:

White House Spokesman Tony Snow told reporters that the demand for sworn testimony from presidential advisers is "unprecedented" and "highly unusual in any White House."

However, in his letter, Chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) described this statement as "misinformed." The letter outlines notable subpoenas of Clinton administration officials, and summarizes a report compiled by Waxman and his staff which details the extensive investigation of the Clinton White House by a then Republican-controlled Congress. According to the report, from 1997 to 2002, under Republican Chairman Dan Burton, the House Oversight Committee issued 1,052 subpoenas targeting Democratic Party or Clinton administration officials.

This letter also describes cooperation by subpoenaed Clinton administration officials serving in the same capacity as former White House council Harriet Miers and Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, two of the Bush administration officials currently in the Democrats' sights. According to the report, "141 individuals who worked in the Clinton administration, including top advisers to the president, spent 568 hours in deposition before the [Oversight] committee staff." This included three White House chiefs of staff and four counsels to the president, along with other top administration officials.

But a political adviser and a counsel? Those are, um, totally different!
 
And this article by blast-from-the-past John Dean (a man who knew Nixon up close - he was in charge of defending his bullfeathers) is so good I have to post the whole thing.

Dean basically agrees with the concept that Bush wants to return to the Nixonian era, revisit the concept of executive privilege and rewrite history to say that Nixon's abuses of power were actually within bounds.

For Americans who haven't gone completely round the bend, that's a pretty staggering amount of impudence.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070323.html

At the outset of this column -- which discusses Bush's new White House Counsel, Fred Fielding -- I must acknowledge that I am the person who first hired, and brought Fielding into the government. He served as my deputy in the Nixon White House, and was untouched by Watergate, because I shielded all my staff from that unpleasant business. Fred is an able lawyer, and now finds himself in the hot seat, with President Bush seemingly looking for a fight with Congress. (But that's what makes the job interesting.)

One further disclosure: I have never been an advocate of executive privilege, except as it might relate to the most sensitive national security information. To the contrary, you show me a White House aide who does not want his conversations and advice to the president revealed, and I will show you someone who should not be talking with or advising a president.



Of course, I do not know what is transpiring behind closed doors at the White House right now. But I do believe there is more occurring than meets the eye with respect to the potential confrontation developing between the Democratic Congress and the Bush White House. On the surface, the clash appears rather simple: Congress wants information, and Bush does want to provide it if it means breaching the sanctity of the realm in which he receives advice from his aides privately. But this surface conflict, as I will explain, does not get to the bottom of this developing dust-up.

In truth, much more is at stake here for both the Congress and the White House than this bare description of the conflict would indicate. These issues strike at the heart of what post-Watergate conservative Republicans seek to create: an all-powerful presidency. Thus, for the same reason that Vice President Cheney went to extreme lengths to block Congress from getting information about the work of his National Energy Task Force, as I discussed in prior columns such as this one, I expect President Bush to take what will appear to be a similar irrational posture. For both Bush and Cheney, virtually any limit on presidential power is too great.

And this conflict, in the end, is all about presidential power. Moreover, underlying the Administration's defense of unchecked power, is a term that has not been heard since Justice Alito's confirmation hearings: "the unitary executive theory." Once, conservatives rejected a strong presidency. Today, however, the opposite is the case, and the unitary executive theory is central to their argument.

Clashing institutions make good news copy. But understanding why two co-equal branches of our government each have such strong feelings about their need to prevail in this conflict, may help to get to the heart of the matter.

The Contemporary Conservative Vision of Executive Power: A Strong Presidency

In a piece last year for The New Republic's July issue, legal journalist Jeffery Rosen summed up George W. Bush's outlook on the presidency: "One of the defining principles of the Bush administration has been a belief in unfettered executive power. Indeed, President Bush has taken the principle to such unprecedented extremes that an ironic reversal has taken place: A conservative ideology that had always been devoted to limiting government power has been transformed into the largest expansion of executive power since FDR."

Rosen reported that Bush's perspective is not "mere political opportunism--a cynical rationale devised after September 11 to allow the president to do whatever he likes in the war on terrorism." Rather, Rosen explained, Bush's actions stem from his embrace of the "unitary executive theory." (Of course, Bush may not himself have mastered the fine points of this theory, but it is clear he understands the core idea, and acts accordingly.)

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Bush's governing style is not surprising to those who took a close look at how he governed before he arrived in Washington. Indeed, the perceptive conservative commentator George Will saw it coming.

Will visited Governor Bush in Texas in 1999, and talked as well with the team Bush had assembled to work on his presidential campaign. "They are recasting conservatism by expunging the traditional conservative ambivalence about presidential power," Will reported at the time. "Hence the presence on the cluttered desk of chief speechwriter Mike Gerson of Terry Eastland's book, Energy in the Executive: The Case for the Strong Presidency. Eastland's title comes from Alexander Hamilton's Federalist Paper Number 70: 'Energy in the executive is a leading character in the definition of good government.'" Will then explained the theory that would turn out, later, to be Bush's bottom line: "Eastland's thesis is that 'the strong presidency is necessary to effect ends sought by most conservatives.'"

Strikingly, Will concluded his report with a savvy prediction: "A second Bush presidency would be more muscular than the first in exercising executive power." Will, obviously, made this prediction long before 9/11. His article and his take on the situation are thus excellent evidence that even in a hypothetical world without 9/11, we still would have seen additional executive power grabs from a second-term President Bush.

I raise Terry Eastland's book, in particular, because I have always believed it has been something of a bible for Bush II and his staff. The book is also directly related to the "unitary executive theory." Eastland draws his view of the presidency from the same source attorneys in the Reagan Administration Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel did, when they came up with the phrase "unitary executive theory" to describe their effort to provide legal justification for the President's taking increasingly aggressive control of the executive branch. At that time, the clash was between the Executive and the independent regulatory agencies, but the principle was the same.

The source upon which both Eastland and those who coined the "unitary executive" theory relied, of course, was Hamilton's Federalists No. 70 -- as I will discuss further below.

What Exactly Is the Unitary Executive Theory? A Short Answer

Before the Alito confirmation hearings, Washington Post reporter Dana Milbank correctly described the "unitary executive theory" as an "obscure philosophy … that favors an extraordinarily powerful president." Milbank found an invocation of this philosophy in the notorious "torture memos."

For example, Milbank quoted a passage from one of the memos that was laced with conservative pipe-dream rhetoric: "The Framers understood the [Commander in Chief] clause as investing the president with the fullest range of power," the memo claimed, including power over "the conduct of warfare and the defense of the nation unless expressly assigned in the Constitution to Congress." Such power was given, the memo theorized, because "national security decisions require the unity in purpose and energy in action that characterize the presidency rather than Congress." (Conservative scholars, I have discovered, have a unique skill of channeling the thinking of the Founders in their writing.)

When the obscure philosophy surfaced during the Alito hearings, Writ guest columnist Jennifer Van Bergen assembled a brisk overview of its salient points. But for a quick and a bit more in-depth course in Unitary Executive Theory 101, I would suggest an analysis by Loyola Law School Professors Karl Manheim and Allan Ides.

Professors Manheim and Ides trace the origins, evolution, and current uses of the unitary executive theory. While it is beyond the scope of their analysis, they also, along the way, provide information useful to deconstruct and critically analyze this concocted effort at legal (and historical) legerdemain. This is not the place for me to unload on this hogwash theory, but I must pause to comment, at least, on its purported links to Alexander Hamilton's purported vision of "a unitary executive."

This was not remotely Hamilton's vision. Listen, for example, to what Morton Rosenberg says; he is a specialist in American Public Law at the non-partisan Congressional Reference Service of the Library of Congress, and he is described by many of those who know him as the smartest guy in the place. Rosenberg was one of the first to correct this loopy scholarship when it began appearing in the early 1980s.

Rosenberg places Hamilton in a realistic context, as he knocks down several shaky pillars upon which unitary executive theorists have tried to build: "The framers had no reason to envisage the management of an industrial nation as the essential function of the office [of the president.]," Rosenberg explains. "Whatever managerial insights Hamilton had were confined to commerce, banking, and monetary policy…. Nor did [the framers] conceive of the presidency as an institutionalized representation of popular will distinct from, let alone capable of opposition to, the will expressed by the legislature. Even Hamilton's most strenuous defenses of executive authority emphasized the president's role as the managerial agent for the legislature, not his popular independence in reflection of some other popular will."

Manheim and Ides explain that the essence of the unitary executive "theory" is "more about power than it is about law." And power, here, means presidential power: The "unitary executive" theory is a theoretical, legal, historical, and Constitutional hook conservatives have invented to expand presidential power.

These "unitarians" postulate, as Manheim and Ides note, "that the authority to enforce federal law and to implement federal policy rest exclusively in the Executive Branch and, most importantly, the ultimate prerogative over this executive function is vested solely and completely in the President, who sits atop the hierarchy of executive power and responsibility." This exclusivity, in the unitarians' view, precludes any but the most minimal role for Congress: Its role, they believe, is simply to decide whether to appropriate money; otherwise, it must butt out completely.

The Relationship of Unitary Executive Theory and Executive Privilege

Eastland's tutorial, set forth in his book, instructed President Bush and his staff to make a big deal out of protecting presidential prerogatives. So, too, does the unitary executive theory, which was developed at the same time that Reagan's Justice Department was doing what Presidents Ford and Carter had been too wary to do: revive Executive Privilege. Neither Ford nor Carter issued guidelines for the executive branch regarding the use of this privilege, for Nixon had given it such a bad name they dared not use it. But the Reagan Administration dared, and did.

Indeed, Reagan's Attorney General, William French Smith had the nerve to issue a memorandum opinion expressly relying on U.S. v Nixon -- the famous Nixon tapes case. In the language quoted by French, the Supreme Court concluded: "The expectation of a President to the confidentiality of his conversations and correspondence … has all the values to which we accord deference for the privacy of all citizens and, added to those values, is the necessity for protection of the public interest in candid, objective, and even blunt or harsh opinions in Presidential decision-making. A President and those who assist him must be free to explore alternatives in the process of shaping policies and making decisions and to do so in a way many would be unwilling to express except privately. These are the considerations justifying a presumptive privilege for Presidential communications. The privilege is fundamental to the operation of Government and inextricably rooted in the separation of powers under the Constitution."

The point that French, elided, however, was that the Court had rejected Nixon's claim of an unqualified privilege, and directed that the tapes be produced for in camera inspection (that is, inspection that is secret even from the parties and their attorneys) by the relevant court.

Moreover, in explaining its holding, the Court reasoned as follows: "[W]hen the privilege depends solely on the broad, undifferentiated claim of public interest in the confidentiality of such conversations, a confrontation with other values arises. Absent a claim of need to protect military, diplomatic, or sensitive national security secrets, we find it difficult to accept the argument that even the very important interest in confidentiality of Presidential communications is significantly diminished by production of such material for in camera inspection…."

Not only did this holding result in the rejection of an executive privilege claim, it is also quite vague, and it applies to a judicial, not a legislative subpoena. Nevertheless, Attorney General Smith drew upon it to opine, consistent with the philosophy of protecting presidential prerogatives, that "[t]he interest of Congress in obtaining information for oversight purposes is, I believe, considerably weaker than its interest when specific legislative proposals are in question."

Thus, Smith encouraged President Reagan (and presidents generally) to deny information to Congress when conducting oversight, except "in the most unusual circumstances."

Past Is Probably Not Prologue for Bush: The Gorsuch Fiasco

Interestingly, however, to the displeasure of many, Reagan's White House Counsel Fred Fielding -- now at the center of the current clash, as Bush's counsel -- did not protect the president's prerogatives as vigorously as Reagan's Attorney General would have preferred.

A leading scholar on Executive Privilege, Mark Rozell, reports that although "President Reagan invoked executive privilege on several occasions, he never fully exercised that power. When confronted by congressional demands for information, Reagan generally followed a pattern of initial resistance followed by accommodation of Congress's request. Reagan never made a concerted effort to defend his prerogative in this area. As a result, he further weakened a constitutional presidential power …."

How much of Reagan's reluctance to press the "executive privilege" issue derived from Fielding, Reagan himself, or other Reagan aides, is not known. Also, some of the criticism of Reagan's decision not to aggressively assert the privilege occurred largely after Fielding had left. For instance, Vice President Cheney later insisted that Reagan provided too much information to Congress during their Iran-Contra investigation.

Fielding was White House Counsel, however, during one of the more thrilling episodes involving executive privilege -- one that could parallel the current situation, with Congress calling for testimony by White House aide Karl Rove and former aide Harriet Miers. In explaining what happened back in 1982, I've drawn heavily on -- paraphrasing, greatly abbreviating, and then quoting -- Mark Rozell's report:

Two House committees issued subpoenas to EPA Administrator Anne Gorsuch, directing her to appear before Congress with certain documents. Gorsuch was prepared to turn over the documents, but the Justice Department urged President Reagan to assert executive privilege. When he did so, White House Counsel Fielding assured Gorsuch that "the administration would stand solidly behind this claim of executive privilege."

When Gorsuch invoked the privilege, both committees voted to hold her in contempt, and on December 16, 1982, the House of Representatives voted 259-105 to find her in contempt of Congress. Immediately following the House vote, however, the Justice Department filed civil suit against the House of Representatives. Then, rather than follow the language of the contempt statute, the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia -- obviously after being instructed by the Justice Department regarding this matter- refused to "bring the matter before the grand jury for their action" while the suit against the House was pending. (It was a delaying ploy.)

The House requested that the federal district court dismiss the civil lawsuit, which the court did. The court also encouraged the two branches "to settle their differences without further judicial involvement" and warned that "f these two co-equal branches maintain their present adversarial positions, the Judicial Branch will be required to resolve the dispute by determining the validity of the Administrator's claim of executive privilege."

Two weeks later, the Administration made a deal with one of the congressional committees, agreeing to a limited disclosure of the requested information. Again, EPA administrator Gorsuch pushed for full disclosure, but the White House disagreed. Meanwhile, the other congressional committee would not agree to a limited release and continued to press for full disclosure, advising the White House that the investigations would continue until the documents were provided.

Having had enough, Gorsuch resigned her position as head of EPA when the White House finally agreed to release its documents Congress wanted. Following the contempt statute, the U.S. attorney presented a contempt citation to a grand jury, which unanimously declined to indict Gorsuch.

Rozell concludes, "Although the administration initially had taken a strong stand on executive privilege, it backed down in the face of mounting political pressure. The decision to compromise did not settle the executive privilege controversy. The House Committee on the Judiciary further investigated the Justice Department role in the controversy and concluded that the department had misused executive privilege by advocating the withholding of documents that had not been thoroughly reviewed. T bghe committee also alleged that the department withheld documents to cover up wrongdoing at EPA. The administration's compromise served as a temporary political expedient which eventually allowed Congress to examine previously withheld documents and draw broader conclusions about the exercise of executive privilege. Reagan may have won a temporary reprieve from political pressures, but he had lost ground in his effort to re-establish the viability of the doctrine of executive privilege."

It Seems Likely Bush, with Fielding, Will Go to the Wall on Executive Privilege

This time, it is my belief that Bush -- unlike Reagan before him -- will not blink. He will not let Fielding strike a deal, as Fielding did for Reagan. Rather, Bush feels that he has his manhood on the line. He knows what his conservative constituency wants: a strong president who protects his prerogatives. He believes in the unitary executive theory of protecting those prerogatives, and of strengthening the presidency by defying Congress.

In short, all those who have wanted to see Karl Rove in jail may get their wish, for he will not cave in, either -- and may well be prosecuted for contempt, as Gorsuch was not. Bush's greatest problem here, however, is Harriett Miers. It is dubious he can exert any privilege over a former White House Counsel; I doubt she is ready to go to prison for him; and all who know her say if she is under oath, she will not lie. That could be a problem.

 
Add in the fact that allegedly Rove thought it a bad idea to fire them all would indicate to me that he was in favor of restraint where such firings were concerned, not the mastermind looking for a purge.

Fact is the emails dont show karl rove was in anyway against the idea. So FAR roves involvment in all three emails shows he was connected in sameway. ironicly the continueal shifting position by the bush administration looks very suspicious

Again, thats another very misleading statement. There is nothing in the material you have provided that indicates anyone was fired for not being 'loyal bushies' at all. The term is used directly out of context of its original use in the memo (not from Karl Rove btw).

hmmm early days yet. Perhaps another sensationised story by the media but given the statesments made by the fired prosecutors coupled with media which shows at the very least dicussion on purging those whom were not considered loyal.

Yes I again state that the term is misleading as no email has directly link roves use of the term. This is a mistake on mybehalf echoing the sentiments of media headlines. since roves fingerprints are all over the place.

Someones spending too much time on the left wing blogs and thinking that the information contained therein is 'balanced' in any way, shape or form. If anything, these last few posts have shown me the extent the left will go to in order to convince itself that there is a conspriacy out there to cover up.

Richard clarkes : Not a conspiracy just incompetence.
petty much after years of repeated incompetence by the bush administration.
 
I think the operative word in your paragraph is 'probably'. Does firing the prosecutor erase the facts surrounding the political ally? No. If the evidence is there then I encourage the fired persons replacement to throughly investigate it, as they should. Firing someone doesnt magically make criminal activity disappear. Say the prosecutors in question had just keeled over dead instead of being fired, would that have change the evidence leading to an indictment? No.

You see, if your allegation were true then why didnt they fire the prosector (Fitzgerald) handling the Plame case? Do you think if they had fired him, would the case 'just gone away'? Hell no. The allegation just makes no sense.

A disingenuous question. The Plame case was so visible on a national level that had he ordered the AG to fire Fitzgerald, it would have had the same reverberations as Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre.

So, in answer to your question, if such indictment had not happened and there is no guarentee that such even WOULD happen, A. legal is the answer.

As PP notes, that isn't the correct answer. If it was the President's/AG's intention to influence the future investigation via the firing, then it wasn't legal.

I dont think this is the allegation however. I think the allegation is that these prosecutors were just fired for political reasons, not as part of some 'cover up'.

Funny, I read "political reasons" and "cover up" as being one and the same. Was the Watergate break-in done for "political reasons" or as part of a "cover up"? Preventing Republican congressmen and/or more senior CIA managers from being investigated and indicted for bribery could be filed under either term.
 
Whats wrong with it? It promotes paranoia and instability. Isnt it false logic to assume since its happened before it will happen again?

There you have it; watching for signs of corruption is unpatriotic and illogical!

Aren't you impressed that the Patriot Act is being used against Congress, instead of terrorists? Isn't that what people predicted, that the Act would be used to curtail patriot freedoms?
 
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