C2C - Buildings Discussion

[Hydromancerx]

@climat, JosEPh_II, Dancing Hoskuld

Currently Law buildings have the -1 that all civic buildings have. This means they are a lot more affordable to build than they were for v17. These buildings give a big boost to So I don't' think they are too much of a problem.

The crime buildings however probably need to be tweaked. The problem is they give awesome units and a lot of gold. The - was put in to have a negative effect if people did not use revolutions. If the - is taken out then what is the down side to building a crime building anymore if someone plays without revolutions on?

 

[EldrinFal]

@climat, JosEPh_II, Dancing Hoskuld

Currently Law buildings have the -1 that all civic buildings have. This means they are a lot more affordable to build than they were for v17. These buildings give a big boost to So I don't' think they are too much of a problem.

The crime buildings however probably need to be tweaked. The problem is they give awesome units and a lot of gold. The - was put in to have a negative effect if people did not use revolutions. If the - is taken out then what is the down side to building a crime building anymore if someone plays without revolutions on?

I think the solution to that could be with Events. The more crime you have, the more often those events pop up where you have a serial killer, or gang violence, etc. That's one option anyway. (and it makes use of AIAndy's new building counter/variable thing)

 

[climat]

If these are implemented, I think crime rate idea goes with this kind of system.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think the solution to that could be with Events. The more crime you have, the more often those events pop up where you have a serial killer, or gang violence, etc. That's one option anyway. (and it makes use of AIAndy's new building counter/variable thing)

I agree. However I would like to have AIAndy's stuff ready to change before I go messing with those buildings.

 

[AIAndy]

I agree. However I would like to have AIAndy's stuff ready to change before I go messing with those buildings.

You can already see how the tags look like. I added a property reducing crime to the palace as example. It won't have any effect though until the rest of the code is in.

 

[climat]

@climat, JosEPh_II, Dancing Hoskuld

Currently Law buildings have the -1 that all civic buildings have. This means they are a lot more affordable to build than they were for v17. These buildings give a big boost to So I don't' think they are too much of a problem.

The crime buildings however probably need to be tweaked. The problem is they give awesome units and a lot of gold. The - was put in to have a negative effect if people did not use revolutions. If the - is taken out then what is the down side to building a crime building anymore if someone plays without revolutions on?

- from Law buildings is generalized to -1, then why crime buildings still give too much gold? Personally, I don't understand why they give anyway. of Civ is from taxes. Profit of criminals shouldn't be added to it. I think we don't need that much from crime buildings. Giving unit is enough benefit. So, lower or take out + from these, please.

Also, law buildings come too late. The first law building is Chief's Hut. It comes with Chiefdom tech. As you see, there is very, very long gap between the first crime building (Bandit's Hideout from Scavenging) and law building. Practically, it's useless when it comes to problem because it only gives 2, though Bandit's Hideout takes 5! (It even become obsolete fast because it needs active Chiefdom civic.) Please, lower - from Bandit's Hideout or increase from Palace to 10 or something, and make Bandit's Hideout national wonder. You can have 2 Thieves, 2 Rogues at the same time. AIs don't have to (and should not) spam it in every city. If from crime buildings is taken out, it might prevent AIs from building them, though.

Just my suggestion for temporary solution.

 

[EldrinFal]

I think maybe Walls and Towers/Batteries should probably be -1 . Seems to me they would need to be maintained by the city, which amounts to some kind of tax. Shouldn't be a major expense since they get replaced with each new upgrade.

 

[steampunk1880]

Building a Metro Administration and then a Capital Administration did something funny I-don't-know-what. Couldn't select the plots three tiles out anymore but they still had circles around them. getting rid of capital administration (leaving me with none of those types of buildings in my city let me mess with the three tile out plots again. Maybe that needs to be looked at.

 

[Koshling]

Building a Metro Administration and then a Capital Administration did something funny I-don't-know-what. Couldn't select the plots three tiles out anymore but they still had circles around them. getting rid of capital administration (leaving me with none of those types of buildings in my city let me mess with the three tile out plots again. Maybe that needs to be looked at.

Happen to have a save from just before the CA was built?

 

[steampunk1880]

Not even my oldest autosave. Can you just use my regular save and hurry build the capital admin. Note that, despite not having any of those buildings in it due to my getting rid of the capital administration in world builder to fix it, Bibracte still works the third tile out.

 

[Koshling]

Not even my oldest autosave. Can you just use my regular save and hurry build the capital admin. Note that, despite not having any of those buildings in it due to my getting rid of the capital administration in world builder to fix it, Bibracte still works the third tile out.

I'll try to find time to look at this, but my priority has to be the CTD issues people are reporting which we've been stuck on for a number of days now.

 

[Sleeeper]

Now I don't need to bother because the AI as no espionage.

The problem is that AI's negative espionage points somehow turn into huge amount instead and AI uses these EPs for it's spy missions. Like if you play with Advanced Espionage AI can bribe your cities in pretty early game. I lost one in that way.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@ Sleeper... take a look at the Law vs Crime thread and let me know what you think of the solution proposed there.

Now then... general building issues I've encountered so far amount to:

1) Trading Posts should upgrade from markets rather than making markets obsolete when they come into play. Just doesn't seem logical really.

2) Breweries and Distilleries: same building with different qualifications to achieve. Either differentiate their purpose or eliminate one perhaps.

3) Interfaith... still not working?

 

[climat]

Now then... general building issues I've encountered so far amount to:

1) Trading Posts should upgrade from markets rather than making markets obsolete when they come into play. Just doesn't seem logical really.

2) Breweries and Distilleries: same building with different qualifications to achieve. Either differentiate their purpose or eliminate one perhaps.

3) Interfaith... still not working?

1) Trading Posts does not make market obsolete. Mercentilism (Tech) which enables Trading Posts makes market obsolete.

2) Why? They are different buildings providing Alcohol. Alcohol is a resource. It can be traded. So, more than 1 Alcohol is good. (I think Alcohol should be goods, though.)

 

[Thunderbrd]

1) Understood... not wanting to pull open the civopedia leads to shortcuts in the way I need to express things sometimes Good point though... Mercantilism shouldn't obsolete markets and Trading Posts should replace them. Two distinct changes that achieves what I mean anyhow. I know Trading Posts already replace a lot though... but why should an advancement in commercial progress reflect a loss of gold for the nation? Seems silly, no?

2) Agreed. With the standards set by goods now, alcohol should be a good, not a resource. In a volumized system, two buildings would make sense. As it is now, it just doubles up on the gold, happiness and unhealth from what seems to be pretty much the same thing. I guess I just find that redundant.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

3) Interfaith... still not working?

I had it working. At the moment I can't get passed turn one in any game so any attempt to fix it will have to wait.

 

[Hydromancerx]

2) Breweries and Distilleries: same building with different qualifications to achieve. Either differentiate their purpose or eliminate one perhaps.

They along with the winery all produce alcohol however different ones require different requirements. Since you can only have a max of 5 requirements I had to split them up into 2 separate buildings or people would complain that you could not make alcohol out of X good.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

They along with the winery all produce alcohol however different ones require different requirements. Since you can only have a max of 5 requirements I had to split them up into 2 separate buildings or people would complain that you could not make alcohol out of X good.

I've told you, it is a one character change to have more, 2 if you want 10 or above.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I've told you, it is a one character change to have more, 2 if you want 10 or above.

Wait what? How?

As for specifically the Brewery vs Distillery I based it on if the alcohol is brewed or distilled. Note that some do overlap. However I did not realize you could have more than 5.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

GlobalDefines.XML

	<Define>
		<DefineName>NUM_UNIT_PREREQ_OR_BONUSES</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>5</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>
	<Define>
		<DefineName>NUM_BUILDING_PREREQ_OR_BONUSES</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>5</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>

Change 5 to the number you want. I expect it may slow things down a bit, but probably not noticably.