C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

Ah, and for Josephs thought on Anarchy in Civic Change.

*starts the discussion*
I agree with Josephs comment on removing Anarchy, though not for all Civic changes. I both know fully well that that would be too good to implement and that a new system would have to be set up to make it work. I also know I can't make a new system, only come with suggestions.
So here goes:
Small changes, like Agricultural System, changes that don't directly influence the common people, like military, and changes that have no bearing on things already in effect and only add things, like language, should in my opinion not have a strong influence towards Anarchy.
Bigger changes, Government, Religious views, Society make up, should though.
And middling things should have a middling influence.

The pure "x turns in anarchy" system used not doesn't really reflect what might happen during such an upheaval as well as symbolizing total anarchy and breakdown of society. Influencing the Agricultural System doesn't seem to warrant 6 turns (Eternity) of total Anarchy every time.

My suggestion would be to to have Anarchy fade over time as well as have a lesser effect from start, depending on what one changed, of course.
Thus changing Government would have a longer time to get settled, more so with other changes done at the same time, with worse effects than simply and only changing the Education System.

This might be possible to do with an added Property (Anarchy) that effectively changed your incomes on the plots it affected (all plots or just City Plots, or even a Nation Global Property) by a percentage of the Anarchy Property, though not sure how to make it affect only the surpluses of Gold and Food (though should it need to have to keep it stagnant, or should anarchy cost a bit too). On Civic Change this property could be added, and slowly dissipating down towards 0. How much would depend on how big the changes made were.
This way the nation would take an initial big hit and slowly recuperate as the systems/civics chosen got more and more accepted by the populace.

On the Big Three (Government, Society, Religious View), a period of Pure Anarchy, as per the current system, can be used too, giving changing those a much greater impact on your society.

Cheers
 
I would love this, although I am not able to help implementing it as well..

If I could, I would even get one step further and have different values per civic change, not just per category. Changing from Despotism to Monarchy is a small step compared to jumping to a Democracy. Republic->Democracy is easier.
A change from a standing to a volunteer army or the other way round should have less impact then suddenly going to a drafted army.
 
yes philosophical trait is very good for that. I think expansive & agressive is crappy compared to philo and spiritual. You may get 2 food more on start but later that :health: bonus is irrelevant, same with the combat 1 promo, imho.
 
Yeh, golden ages would need (probably do anyway really) a little buffing I think to compensate. Not so much of an issue for spiritual trauit IMO (it's one of the more powerful ones now, so losing ground a bit won't hurt overall balance)
 
the thing is, we as humans can figure out ways around it but the dumb as dogsh1t ai can't. So Spiritual will remain op for them despite our ability to overcome it.
 
Hmm, what about adding one or more new properties that represent stability (not to be confused with Rev's stability). If you change civics, you get a hit to that property.
When it drops below a certain point, pseudo buildings that hurt your multipliers appear in the cities.
Some buildings, the spritual trait, golden ages and maybe some other things add stability each turn.
 
Could Cultures, native and otherwise, be influencing stability? ( And I DO mean the rev ones)

Currently I am trying to build quite a few diverse cultures to get heroes and National Units. And apart from taking up wonder space there is no reason not to just grab every culture I can.
Getting diverse native cultures even gives me acces to even more cultures and buildings ( eg Pavillion, needing Asian Culture)

So how tweaking civics to mimic the problems an chances resulting from mixed ethnical groups?
Suggestions could be :
More liberal governmental civics could deal well with it, with Federalism the best ( different native cultures being in their own "states" within one nation.
Totalitarian regimes would get either an instability or unhappiness modifier dependent on number of cultures.
Or "Fascist" getting an event to choose which culture should be dominant, disabeling everything belonging to other cultures as long as this civc is active.
It could have an impact on other civics as well. A pretty severe unhappiness for Nationalism.
An increase in effectiveness of the "Interpreters" and "Language Education" for having more cultures and by that more language diversity.
Increased costs for "Bureaucracy"
 
Why does the AI stay with these 3 Civics( Slavery, Caste, Vassalge) well into the 1900's AD?

See screen shot.

Also the Foreign Advisor's Info screen is Still missing a bunch of headers for the New Civic categories. Will this be addressed/fixed soon?

JosEPh
 
Why does the AI stay with these 3 Civics( Slavery, Caste, Vassalge) well into the 1900's AD?

See screen shot.

Also the Foreign Advisor's Info screen is Still missing a bunch of headers for the New Civic categories. Will this be addressed/fixed soon?

JosEPh

Give me a save game so I can step through that AI's civic choice and I'll give you an answer. Otherwise....dunno...
 
i don't know if someone suggested it yet but i think that civics should have their own units i.e: monarchy-royal gaurd
 
i don't know if someone suggested it yet but i think that civics should have their own units i.e: monarchy-royal gaurd

What would/should happen to them when you change out of their pre-req civic? They get extra unit costs maybe? Or other negative effects (like causing unhappyness?)
 
i don't know if someone suggested it yet but i think that civics should have their own units i.e: monarchy-royal gaurd

I like this idea.:) But right now there is only Free Experience and Free Great person for tags> .
 
I think the idea for fixing/revising anarchy is a great one. I think the idea for Anarchy to last longer and have a longer gradual effect, building and declining, that doesn't completely nerf production would work well.
 
Is it possible to give addtional healthiness upon researching certain techs to the 'Expansive' trait?
Or some additional benefits, not to make it OP, but to level the playing field.

Maybe give aggressive civs free units upon completion of a certain tech?
I don't know how feasible it is though.
 
What would/should happen to them when you change out of their pre-req civic? They get extra unit costs maybe? Or other negative effects (like causing unhappyness?)

well many things can happen: the might rebel, cause unhappiness, disband and mabye leave to another civ with the same civics.
 
well many things can happen: the might rebel, cause unhappiness, disband and mabye leave to another civ with the same civics.

Yeh, but all of those are additional mechanisms the game doesn't currently have, so the amount of work involved builds up quite fast (not to mention the need for the AI to calcuate all the extra implications of the the civic switch)
 
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