C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[ls612]

Good idea, but how about we switch that with Totalitarianisms bonus. So Despotism gets more , but Totalitarianism gets more and decreased revolt risk, maybe even less crime.

That sounds like a great balance move, go ahead with that. It is a small enough tweak that it can go in during the Freeze.

 

[strategyonly]

Just wondering if this would have any use in C2C, or parts of it?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=414722

 

[Thunderbrd]

Ah yes... I remember that page. I found it a neat idea too.

It'd have to be redone entirely in the spirit of C2C though... with cultures being the primary civilization definition providing UUs and UBs, then if we had Unique Civics as well, we'd have to have those, too, based on cultures.

I mean, the thinking behind his mod there is awesome, yes, but it'd take a lot for us to implement anything along those lines. I could take another look at it down the road though - it would tie in interestingly with another project...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why would it not tie in with the cultures as we currently have them? Like everything else it would be nice if the civics were later than the culture on the tech tree, but I have found times where I have not been able to build an ancient culture until the Renaissance, so maybe as long as the civic is somewhat useful in later times it would still work.

Edit I misread that, I thought it was additional civics based on culture (which would have display issues as well) not replacing or varying existing civics. No consumed yet this morning . Ones based on teh original cultural group would work, until we make that optional and choosable as "Cultural heritage"

 

[strategyonly]

OK NEW civics seem to be working ALOT better now. At least now the Barbarians POP is above average again, YEAH!!

But MAN, is this a FOWL game or what?? pun is intended!!

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Just wondering if this would have any use in C2C, or parts of it?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=414722

This looks pretty cool! Although it's not really high on my list of priorities, I could get to it eventually.

Why would it not tie in with the cultures as we currently have them? Like everything else it would be nice if the civics were later than the culture on the tech tree, but I have found times where I have not been able to build an ancient culture until the Renaissance, so maybe as long as the civic is somewhat useful in later times it would still work.

Edit I misread that, I thought it was additional civics based on culture (which would have display issues as well) not replacing or varying existing civics. No consumed yet this morning . Ones based on teh original cultural group would work, until we make that optional and choosable as "Cultural heritage"

Well, whichever one works better. What with all the cultures, however, you might have two cultures that both give a unique version of "Democracy", what would we do then? Something to think about.

OK NEW civics seem to be working ALOT better now. At least now the Barbarians POP is above average again, YEAH!!

But MAN, is this a FOWL game or what?? pun is intended!!

Thats good, but i don't think it was the civics that fixed it, it was probably the "-15% needed to grow on the "Barbarian Culture". And if the Barbarian cities are "above average", do you think we should tone down their bonus a bit?

 

[strategyonly]

Thats good, but i don't think it was the civics that fixed it, it was probably the "-15% needed to grow on the "Barbarian Culture". And if the Barbarian cities are "above average", do you think we should tone down their bonus a bit?

Heck NO, i like it this way, alot better infact!! Actually this is the best i have seen it in over a year!

 

[Hydromancerx]

Heck NO, i like it this way, alot better infact!! Actually this is the best i have seen it in over a year!

Should they get any other benefits? Since its a building it would be easy for me to add other stats to give the barbarians a leg up. Note that its more like a level playing field due to how dumb they can act compared to humans.

EDIT: In fact we may want to start thinking of a special culture unit for the barbarians that requires that building.

 

[ls612]

Should they get any other benefits? Since its a building it would be easy for me to add other stats to give the barbarians a leg up. Note that its more like a level playing field due to how dumb they can act compared to humans.

I'd say leave it be for now, as it generally isn't a good idea to fix something that isn't broken. Maybe after the freeze we could consider tweaking it some more.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Should they get any other benefits? Since its a building it would be easy for me to add other stats to give the barbarians a leg up. Note that its more like a level playing field due to how dumb they can act compared to humans.

EDIT: In fact we may want to start thinking of a special culture unit for the barbarians that requires that building.

Barbs need to be a viable threat and have some semblance of advancement. Otherwise Barb World Option becomes useless by 4000BC. And if they are kept "dumbed down" they only provide the better player/AI with extra cities before and after Sed Life.

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

Barbs need to be a viable threat and have some semblance of advancement. Otherwise Barb World Option becomes useless by 4000BC. And if they are kept "dumbed down" they only provide the better player/AI with extra cities before and after Sed Life.

JosEPh

If people want lots of problems dealing with barbs, they can turn on Barbarian World and Raging Barbs. However I am of the opinion that the way it is now is good for those (including myself) who don't like having too many issues killing barbarians.

 

[strategyonly]

If people want lots of problems dealing with barbs, they can turn on Barbarian World and Raging Barbs. However I am of the opinion that the way it is now is good for those (including myself) who don't like having too many issues killing barbarians.

Yeah i am testing Barb World, Raging Barbs, Minor Civs anything to do with Barbs right now, and its not that fun, all civs just sit there doing nothing, not even using workers??? unless you want a map that is doing nothing but at least there are tons and tons of Barbs and Animals everywhere. . . .

 

[JosEPh_II]

If people want lots of problems dealing with barbs, they can turn on Barbarian World and Raging Barbs. However I am of the opinion that the way it is now is good for those (including myself) who don't like having too many issues killing barbarians.

Maybe you didn't notice I was Talking About Barb World Being ON???!

With Barb World On the barbs are more abundant but nowhere near being any threat. Why? Because when Barbs were a threat new players cried over it. So you guys ratcheted them down. Same as you all did to the Neanderthals. Just sayin'.

JosEPh

 

[Faustmouse]

Isn't it possible to scale barb strenght (not the bonus when fighting them) with difficulty?

I would really like to have a modul-difficulty:
You wouldn't just select deity or monarch, you would have sliders for many functions:

-Barbs from low to high thread from 0 to 10
-Crime per Pop from 1 to 8 (or how much it is now)
-AI cleverness from dumb to.... uhm... "smart"
-AI production / food / Commerce bonus from 100% to 150%

etc.

If you want to, keep the difficulty levels as they are now and give them default settings like:
Monarch: Barb spawning 8; Crime per Pop 5; AI semi-smart, AI Boni 130%

I for example usually play on deity because I think it is the biggest challenge, but I don't really like the high crime (that's just annoying).

What do you think about that?

 

[ls612]

Maybe you didn't notice I was Talking About Barb World Being ON???!

With Barb World On the barbs are more abundant but nowhere near being any threat. Why? Because when Barbs were a threat new players cried over it. So you guys ratcheted them down. Same as you all did to the Neanderthals. Just sayin'.

JosEPh

Sorry, missed the part about Barb World being on then. In that case the barbs need to go and hunt animals during the Preh era to stay competitive.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You do realize that the Barb AI uses the Animals to attack and weaken your units. There are always (right now anyway) a ton of animals around any Barb city. Every time I scout out a barb city I get hit with 2-3 animals Before a barb warrior unit attacks. Sure seems like the barb AI is using the animals to soften up my Spiked Club, Stone Ax, and Tracker/Hunter units.

Which I feel Is a good strategy for the Barb AI to use. Then again others will say it's just the way the animals are coded, to attack anything not barb.

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

You do realize that the Barb AI uses the Animals to attack and weaken your units. There are always (right now anyway) a ton of animals around any Barb city. Every time I scout out a barb city I get hit with 2-3 animals Before a barb warrior unit attacks. Sure seems like the barb AI is using the animals to soften up my Spiked Club, Stone Ax, and Tracker/Hunter units.

Which I feel Is a good strategy for the Barb AI to use. Then again others will say it's just the way the animals are coded, to attack anything not barb.

JosEPh

What I'm saying is that barbs and animals need to be separated so that the barbs can use animals to build the Subdued Animals buildings. Using them as attack units is a waste, even though it is the only thing they can do right now.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Did the Barbs ever at any time have coding for them to Subdue and use?

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

Did the Barbs ever at any time have coding for them to Subdue and use?

JosEPh

No, as Animals have always technically been barbarians. But if you want to keep Barb World, where the barbs get a free city at the start, competitive you need to allow barbs to get Subdued animals.

 

[JosEPh_II]

And some more tech wouldn't hurt either.

JosEPh