C2C civilizations megapack

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I loaded the game with Bohemia and it works now. Does not shows the cities on the pedia though for that particular civ. Besides that it worked.

Not working in the pedia is the error that needs fixing. I have the technology I just need to get to it. It takes less that 2 mins per Civ to fix the basics but I can only do about 5 at a time before going cross-eyed.

 

[gamer1978]

What happened to the mod? I can no longer put it with this new version of C2C.

You have to download Dancing Hoskuld new fixed civ files for Sparth's Civs mod to work.

 

[gamer1978]

Not working in the pedia is the error that needs fixing. I have the technology I just need to get to it. It takes less that 2 mins per Civ to fix the basics but I can only do about 5 at a time before going cross-eyed.

Thanks again for your work. Much appreciated.

 

[miccal2000]

Not working in the pedia is the error that needs fixing. I have the technology I just need to get to it. It takes less that 2 mins per Civ to fix the basics but I can only do about 5 at a time before going cross-eyed.

What exactly needs to be done with the remaining civs? I have some time to use up, and could lend a hand.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have, ie on my copy, almost done all the changes needed for all civs. It is just the last set of changes needed which is to get rid of the schema files in the folders (probably I have done this), then change the XML so that it points to the correct place for the general C2C schema files. Then using the validator to check the XML and finally trying it out in the pedia. We may as well fix the lot as well

 

[BackseatTyrant]

Wasn't one of the core issues that that in many XML's, it said NATIVE_CULTURE, when it should've said HUMAN_CULTURE? Or was it the other way around?

 

[Yudishtira]

The problem with Bohemia is that the pedia is not recognizing some text encoding. I had a thought this morning that may fix the problem, so I am going to try that first. What ever it is should be simple.

edit There are definitely some characters in the civilization infos files that are not of the encoding specified in the XML header. I am changing the header to the other encoding to see if that works. no it didn't fix it. Somewhere in the text (in Civ_Infos) there is a bad character Tracking it down will take forever, mostly due to my dyslexia

I think Toffer found a problem with a "e acute" character (at least in French that's what it's called). The last 'e' in "Hradec Králové" and the 2nd 'e' in "České Budějovice".

What happens when two civs have the same city name? Prague is in the HRE city list as well. Maybe try changing it to 'Praha'?

If those two don't work I would get rid of all the accents and see if anyone complains. It's such a horrible task otherwise. They're all Czech accents anyway, they may not even apply to Bohemia's language.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

What happens when two civs have the same city name? Prague is in the HRE city list as well. Maybe try changing it to 'Praha'?

I think in this case, it's most appropriate to get rid of HRE altogether, since that entity is generally regarded as part of German history. Heck, Charlemagne wasn't even Holy Roman, he was Frankish

 

[tmv]

Heck, Charlemagne wasn't even Holy Roman, he was Frankish

Yes and no. This is very confusing, but - as Wikipedia puts it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Empire)

The Carolingian Empire is considered the first phase in the history of the Holy Roman Empire, which lasted until 1806.

Of course the HRE as it is usually understood began only in 962 when Otto I was crowned emperor. On the other hand ...

since that entity is generally regarded as part of German history

Not really. That would be the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany which was just a part of the HRE. For most of its time the HRE consisted (in terms of current nations) of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands , Belgium, Luxembourg, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Liechtenstein, and parts of France, Italy, Poland and Croatia. One of the most important capitals of the HRE was Prague (the HRE had no continuous seat of power, the emperor "ruled" - as much as the emperor was able to rule anyway - from the capital of his principality).

Of course, this only illustrates the problem of having empires of different eras present in the game, which (very often) had overlapping territories - this is almost unavoidable, because these countries tend to be large, and there is only so much space on earth...

Edit: If you want it a bit more precise here you go:

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

These are all the Civs I have not completed. S and above just need their schema stuff fixed ie any schema files removed and the schema names changed in the other XML files changed. Those before S have had that already done so you can see what the actual names are. Those before S are the ones that are not displaying in the pedia correctly.

I have also uploaded a new version of the BCD file with the fix for Colombian diplomacy.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

Of course, this only illustrates the problem of having empires of different eras present in the game, which (very often) had overlapping territories - this is almost unavoidable, because these countries tend to be large, and there is only so much space on earth...

That isn't really my problem, exactly. It's more that I completely disapprove of how Civ4 decided who gets to be a civ and who doesn't, with HRE, "Vikings" and "Native Americans" being the worst offenders. Personally, I think it should be determined not by dynasties, but by ethno-linguistic and/or ethno-dialectic groups, as that is what our modern understanding of nationality and nationalism correlates best with; I'm one of those weirdos who think indigenous tribes should be given priority over historical empires in terms of representation

 

[Thunderbrd]

That isn't really my problem, exactly. It's more that I completely disapprove of how Civ4 decided who gets to be a civ and who doesn't, with HRE, "Vikings" and "Native Americans" being the worst offenders. Personally, I think it should be determined not by dynasties, but by ethno-linguistic and/or ethno-dialectic groups, as that is what our modern understanding of nationality and nationalism correlates best with; I'm one of those weirdos who think indigenous tribes should be given priority over historical empires in terms of representation

I agree though the tech tree presents some problems with this I think. North American Natives did not mine. This wasn't because they didn't see any potential reason to so much as they had a spiritual objection to it. As a result, they never developed past an Ancient Era. However, that is NOT to say that they did not achieve anything in all that time, technologically. I feel that they had continued to master various 'civics' and harmonious ways of working with the land to increase its overall health and capacity to provide agricultural and animal products in ways that our modern society takes for granted that we learned it from them and still fails to master in practice due to a lack of comparable values. In essence, this means they took a different tech path entirely, one more spiritual - not religious - but emotional, EQ focused, one of wisdom over intellect, health over dominance.

I have often considered adding a 'spiritual' property (though I think the term needs to be changed to something that doesn't indicate anything religious to anyone), something that represents integrity and wisdom, that if you take the standard European development path you'll have a resultingly horrendous problem with and if you take a less aggressive approach to the game you'll excel at, along with an alternative tech tree that switches at whether you will take this path or the path of industry through mining. It would probably need to be a modmod or option because it would not work for those who want to only have one page worth of tech tree on the y axis. Means to reach some really powerful spiritual stuff would be available down that road, equally as strong, in the end, and perhaps in some ways achieved earlier, as the industrially driven accomplishments of the future eras.

This could be a very long term future design project anyhow. All inspired based on agreement with what you expressed.

 

[tmv]

That isn't really my problem, exactly. It's more that I completely disapprove of how Civ4 decided who gets to be a civ and who doesn't, with HRE, "Vikings" and "Native Americans" being the worst offenders. Personally, I think it should be determined not by dynasties, but by ethno-linguistic and/or ethno-dialectic groups, as that is what our modern understanding of nationality and nationalism correlates best with; I'm one of those weirdos who think indigenous tribes should be given priority over historical empires in terms of representation

I think you contradicted yourself here: You don't like the Native Americans being represented but you would prefer more indigenous tribes.

In essence, this means they took a different tech path entirely, one more spiritual - not religious - but emotional, EQ focused, one of wisdom over intellect, health over dominance.

How much do we even know about the Native Americans pre-extinction event? After about 90 % of them died, of course they had a different outlook than before. And if we include e.g. the Inca - they failed to develop the wheel, which put a stop to their development.

 

[Thunderbrd]

How much do we even know about the Native Americans pre-extinction event? After about 90 % of them died, of course they had a different outlook than before.

They still remember their own histories enough to recount. Tribal elders remember what their elders taught and so on back to the times before their outbreak and yes, they claim they had a LOT more population here long before our researchers were willing to admit that. But they can and do willingly share the values they were given and also insist that these values had been with them for a very long time. Many will tell you not to walk too heavily for you walk upon your mother - respecting the land under your feet as if it were a person was central to their beliefs in many tribes. You get to the Aztecs and south and you see a different set of values emerging entirely, one far more industrial. Even the ancient pueblo were more willing to dig, burrow, and build with stone, leading to the majority of permanent settlement ruins still in the US. You can see a lot of progress they were making with these construction techniques. But they never smelted for metals. Yet the Aztecs collected gold and silver in such great volumes the Spanish simply HAD to take it all from them.

 

[raxo2222]

I agree though the tech tree presents some problems with this I think. North American Natives did not mine. This wasn't because they didn't see any potential reason to so much as they had a spiritual objection to it. As a result, they never developed past an Ancient Era. However, that is NOT to say that they did not achieve anything in all that time, technologically. I feel that they had continued to master various 'civics' and harmonious ways of working with the land to increase its overall health and capacity to provide agricultural and animal products in ways that our modern society takes for granted that we learned it from them and still fails to master in practice due to a lack of comparable values. In essence, this means they took a different tech path entirely, one more spiritual - not religious - but emotional, EQ focused, one of wisdom over intellect, health over dominance.

I have often considered adding a 'spiritual' property (though I think the term needs to be changed to something that doesn't indicate anything religious to anyone), something that represents integrity and wisdom, that if you take the standard European development path you'll have a resultingly horrendous problem with and if you take a less aggressive approach to the game you'll excel at, along with an alternative tech tree that switches at whether you will take this path or the path of industry through mining. It would probably need to be a modmod or option because it would not work for those who want to only have one page worth of tech tree on the y axis. Means to reach some really powerful spiritual stuff would be available down that road, equally as strong, in the end, and perhaps in some ways achieved earlier, as the industrially driven accomplishments of the future eras.

This could be a very long term future design project anyhow. All inspired based on agreement with what you expressed.

They would be in neolithic or at best copper age stasis.
Middle East and China also were developing until they went into stasis for spiritual/religious reasons at later technological level.
You would end up with optimized pre renaissance civilizations/tribes and nothing else.
Stasis would eventually end somewhere.

There were a lot of factors, that made Europe enter technological/scientific epoch (Renaissance and later eras).

 

[Thunderbrd]

They would be in neolithic or at best copper age stasis.
Middle East and China also were developing until they went into stasis for spiritual/religious reasons at later technological level.
You would end up with optimized pre renaissance civilizations/tribes and nothing else.
Stasis would eventually end somewhere.

There were a lot of factors, that made Europe enter technological/scientific epoch (Renaissance and later eras).

Stasis in regards to what we call progress from our modern outlook, but that doesn't mean they weren't getting anywhere - it was just a vastly different somewhere they were heading. It's incredibly arrogant of our society to think they were simply 'stuck' but it's a fairly common outlook.

Even if there's any truth in that view, we have somehow failed to create the game basis reason for this stasis.

 

[raxo2222]

Stasis in regards to what we call progress from our modern outlook, but that doesn't mean they weren't getting anywhere - it was just a vastly different somewhere they were heading. It's incredibly arrogant of our society to think they were simply 'stuck' but it's a fairly common outlook.

Even if there's any truth in that view, we have somehow failed to create the game basis reason for this stasis.

Tibet lasted bit longer (what is 500 years difference, if humans first appeared in America ~15 000 years ago?), and they never had equivalent of Renaissance.
There were other indigenous tribes in Africa, Asia and Oceania too.
They had way more time here.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Tibet lasted bit longer (what is 500 years difference, if humans first appeared in America ~15 000 years ago?), and they never had equivalent of Renaissance.
There were other indigenous tribes in Africa, Asia and Oceania too.
They had way more time here.

I agree I was just using one example and there are many - and nearly all of those alternative examples you give may well have been developing down other routes as well. Largely a lot of what those civs had achieved we either destroyed as we subjugated them or we stole and adopted into our cultures and ways of life with little fanfare. Some survive on despite our best efforts to supress those ways of life and outlooks they earned through generations of focus on different ways of life than ours. Tibet is a GREAT example. Those people knew what it is to be at peace inside themselves and how to act in harmony with one another in ways that we can only imagine. We've learned much from them thankfully, but still our society and the people in it would usually prefer to be competitive than to be happy and go on ignoring the discoveries they made in how to live a blissful life. But of what benefit is that on a tech tree?

 

[raxo2222]

I agree I was just using one example and there are many - and nearly all of those alternative examples you give may well have been developing down other routes as well. Largely a lot of what those civs had achieved we either destroyed as we subjugated them or we stole and adopted into our cultures and ways of life with little fanfare. Some survive on despite our best efforts to supress those ways of life and outlooks they earned through generations of focus on different ways of life than ours. Tibet is a GREAT example. Those people knew what it is to be at peace inside themselves and how to act in harmony with one another in ways that we can only imagine. We've learned much from them thankfully, but still our society and the people in it would usually prefer to be competitive than to be happy and go on ignoring the discoveries they made in how to live a blissful life. But of what benefit is that on a tech tree?

Blissful life until getting wrecked by technological civilization << total domination of omniverse (or just solar system) - risk of annihilation during technological (Renaissance - Nanotech) epoch.
Also some "pristine" tribes still exist.

There will be again time for philosophy and spirituality after robots steal most of jobs.
Scientific understanding of nature paved way for industrialism - it was inevitable.

You can't get superpowers just by prayers.
Only hard work (technological progress) will give you superpowers.
Of course we could went with more optimal way to do it.

Now what if Americas were bit smaller or Earth was bit bigger, and new world would be first discovered by Renaissance (no human presence before)?

 

[Thunderbrd]

You can't get superpowers just by prayers

You might be wrong about that... but then you'd never know it while you maintain that belief.

I actually think that's very inaccurate and instead that the technological path to power is a corrupt one. It is finding power externally and thus disconnects you spiritually, whereas there is a whole path of internal connection that can achieve incredible, limitless and boundless power, that the mind already has at its disposal but is hidden from us in our disconnection from our spiritual source that we exist in, partly due to this spiritually void reliance on technology itself.