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C2C: Promotions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by ls612, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    You guys always forget, i play like i never played the game before, and ask question(s) etc, like the same, as if i am a newbie, ok, cause i am sure others have the same questions, so this way they are out there, :mischief::rolleyes::p;)
     
  2. BlueGenie

    BlueGenie Emperor

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    I hoped that was it. *grin*

    Cheers
     
  3. Cyrusfan

    Cyrusfan King

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    In SO's defense, I think Atl-Atls get an inherent bonus (not a promotion) against archery units that doesn't carry over to archers, so there is a bit of drop off specifically versus archery class units (if it's only 25% there isn't, but I think it's 50%) which would matter when Atl-Atls are your main attacking unit for a bit during the Prehistoric era. It's a pretty small window before you get some decent Maceman units out for attacking cities (where you mainly see archery class units), so a lot of people may not even notice it.
     
  4. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    That should certainly be removed.

    Edit: It is now.
     
  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Does that bonus vs archery carry through along the javelineer/skirmisher path though?
     
  6. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Yes, they still have a bonus vs Archery units (which is their main purpose to be anti-archer).
     
  7. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    And I'm fine with that, but on the Atl-Atl it is OP, as the Atl-Atl upgrades to the archer. Therefore the Atl-Atl should not have a bonus against units it upgrades to.
     
  8. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Well then since it was a throwing unit, doesnt it make more sense then to just have it upgrade to Jav? Just wondering??
     
  9. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    It forks off into two upgrade chains, the Archer chain and the Javelin/Skirmisher chain.
     
  10. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Again then, you took away the archer 50%, but what if i want the Jav upgrade instead of the Archer way?? Do you understand the question and reasoning i am saying then, or am i just talking "poppy cock."
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I get it.

    I think ultimately the answer is that slingers should be able to upgrade to archers or atl-atls but atl-atls should not upgrade to archers, only javelins.

    OR we keep the bonus on the atl-atls and leave it as it was. The move to archery takes a dip in some strengths as its a move to a new and less familiar weapon in that age, but its ultimate potential is obviously much greater.
     
  12. MoogleEmpMog

    MoogleEmpMog Chieftain

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    Another option would be to reduce the bonus to 25%. It's a wash against other Atl-Atls, the main archery unit of the era, but moves them down a bit vs. Archers (5 v 5 rather than 6 v 5). This makes the Archer strictly better, which may or may not be a good thing, while still including the baseline 25% that's a leadin to the Javelin line.
     
  13. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    What? Atl-Atl comes BEFORE archers. Basiclly you can go ...

    Stone Thrower -> Slinger -> Atl-Atl -> Archer

    OR

    Stone Thrower -> Slinger -> Atl-Atl -> Javelineer

    OR

    Brute -> Clubman -> Wood Speaman -> Stone Spearman -> Atl-Atl -> Archer

    OR

    Brute -> Clubman -> Wood Speaman -> Stone Spearman -> Atl-Atl -> Javelineer
     
  14. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Thats all fine and dandy but the 50% was taken away vs Archers? I believe?
     
  15. BlueGenie

    BlueGenie Emperor

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    Yes, because they get bonus in City Defence instead. Specializing your units further towards City Defence instead of vs. Archers. If you want the vs. Archers you go the Javelineer upgrade path instead with your Atl-Atl's.

    Cheers
     
  16. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Similarly along these lines Spiked Club (SC) is still better than Stone Mace (SM). My SC last much longer than than the SM. And I even leave some as SC instead of converting to S. Axe (SA).

    But if you take away from the SC it's PMs then it's a throw away unit. Basically like SM.

    When you get copper or obsidian or iron the Mace is still a weak link vs regular Axe and even the Atl-Atl.

    And what happened to Tomahawk throwers? Phased out?

    The AI builds tons of Archers, up to 30 in a border city with a handful of Atl-Atl and SM until it gets copper or iron. Ironwood Clubman is an early AI favorite too.

    JosEPh
     
  17. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    They are a Culture unit now (Iroquois). We also have an Axe Thrower (Franks) culture unit.
     
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Yeah, I know. And I do like this scheme. I was really just building a case to give the Atl-Atl the adjustment vs archery back as its part of the core line it really is a part of which is the first step of javelineer. I'll have some things to bring up about that whole line there when I get to content coding for the combat mod.

    My point, although poorly stated as I was in a rush this morning, was closer to this:
     
  19. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    I wanted to move back the Spiked Clubber, but Hydro vetoed that idea and said that it was there for a reason (nomads I think was the reason). I think that the Stone Maceman should recieve some buff (it seems to me like the odd one out in my games), but giving it an extra point of STR seems like too much. Maybe I'll reduce it's cost.

    Also, isn't this the promotions thread?:rolleyes::D
     
  20. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Well in my view the unit should be the spear man with promotions (starts with wooden tip no armour and no shield; upgrades promotions to hardened wood tip, stone tip, obsidian tip, copper tip, bronze tip and iron tip; no armour, hide armour, metal armour; no shield, whicker shield, wooden shield, metal shield) upgrades to phalanx (starts with copper tip, metal armour and metal shield) or pikeman ( starts with iron tip; metal shield and armour)

    Or maybe abetter way of saying it is promotions available to spearman are:-
    start with wooden tip -> hardened wood tip -> stone tip -> obsidian tip -> copper tip -> bronze tip -> iron tip
    start with no armour -> leather armour -> metal armour
    start with no shield -> wicker shield -> wooden shield -> metal shield​

    Promotions are preserved or merged to base unit in the line
    Spearman -> Phalanx -> Pikeman​

    Atl-Atl still get spear upgrades but can't have shield and can only get up to leather armour. Same for archers.

    One advantage to this is that you could get away with fewer unit graphics :)
     

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