strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
You guys always forget, i play like i never played the game before, and ask question(s) etc, like the same, as if i am a newbie, ok, cause i am sure others have the same questions, so this way they are out there,
C2C: Promotions
- Thread starter ls612
- Start date
You guys always forget, i play like i never played the game before, and ask question(s) etc, like the same, as if i am a newbie, ok, cause i am sure others have the same questions, so this way they are out there,
In SO's defense, I think Atl-Atls get an inherent bonus (not a promotion) against archery units that doesn't carry over to archers, so there is a bit of drop off specifically versus archery class units (if it's only 25% there isn't, but I think it's 50%) which would matter when Atl-Atls are your main attacking unit for a bit during the Prehistoric era. It's a pretty small window before you get some decent Maceman units out for attacking cities (where you mainly see archery class units), so a lot of people may not even notice it.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Does that bonus vs archery carry through along the javelineer/skirmisher path though?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Yes, they still have a bonus vs Archery units (which is their main purpose to be anti-archer).
And I'm fine with that, but on the Atl-Atl it is OP, as the Atl-Atl upgrades to the archer. Therefore the Atl-Atl should not have a bonus against units it upgrades to.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Well then since it was a throwing unit, doesnt it make more sense then to just have it upgrade to Jav? Just wondering??
It forks off into two upgrade chains, the Archer chain and the Javelin/Skirmisher chain.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Again then, you took away the archer 50%, but what if i want the Jav upgrade instead of the Archer way?? Do you understand the question and reasoning i am saying then, or am i just talking "poppy cock."
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I get it.
I think ultimately the answer is that slingers should be able to upgrade to archers or atl-atls but atl-atls should not upgrade to archers, only javelins.
OR we keep the bonus on the atl-atls and leave it as it was. The move to archery takes a dip in some strengths as its a move to a new and less familiar weapon in that age, but its ultimate potential is obviously much greater.
I think ultimately the answer is that slingers should be able to upgrade to archers or atl-atls but atl-atls should not upgrade to archers, only javelins.
OR we keep the bonus on the atl-atls and leave it as it was. The move to archery takes a dip in some strengths as its a move to a new and less familiar weapon in that age, but its ultimate potential is obviously much greater.
MoogleEmpMog
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2008
- Messages
- 94
Another option would be to reduce the bonus to 25%. It's a wash against other Atl-Atls, the main archery unit of the era, but moves them down a bit vs. Archers (5 v 5 rather than 6 v 5). This makes the Archer strictly better, which may or may not be a good thing, while still including the baseline 25% that's a leadin to the Javelin line.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
What? Atl-Atl comes BEFORE archers. Basiclly you can go ...
Stone Thrower -> Slinger -> Atl-Atl -> Archer
OR
Stone Thrower -> Slinger -> Atl-Atl -> Javelineer
OR
Brute -> Clubman -> Wood Speaman -> Stone Spearman -> Atl-Atl -> Archer
OR
Brute -> Clubman -> Wood Speaman -> Stone Spearman -> Atl-Atl -> Javelineer
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Thats all fine and dandy but the 50% was taken away vs Archers? I believe?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Similarly along these lines Spiked Club (SC) is still better than Stone Mace (SM). My SC last much longer than than the SM. And I even leave some as SC instead of converting to S. Axe (SA).
But if you take away from the SC it's PMs then it's a throw away unit. Basically like SM.
When you get copper or obsidian or iron the Mace is still a weak link vs regular Axe and even the Atl-Atl.
And what happened to Tomahawk throwers? Phased out?
The AI builds tons of Archers, up to 30 in a border city with a handful of Atl-Atl and SM until it gets copper or iron. Ironwood Clubman is an early AI favorite too.
JosEPh
But if you take away from the SC it's PMs then it's a throw away unit. Basically like SM.
When you get copper or obsidian or iron the Mace is still a weak link vs regular Axe and even the Atl-Atl.
And what happened to Tomahawk throwers? Phased out?
The AI builds tons of Archers, up to 30 in a border city with a handful of Atl-Atl and SM until it gets copper or iron. Ironwood Clubman is an early AI favorite too.
JosEPh
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
They are a Culture unit now (Iroquois). We also have an Axe Thrower (Franks) culture unit.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Yeah, I know. And I do like this scheme. I was really just building a case to give the Atl-Atl the adjustment vs archery back as its part of the core line it really is a part of which is the first step of javelineer. I'll have some things to bring up about that whole line there when I get to content coding for the combat mod.
My point, although poorly stated as I was in a rush this morning, was closer to this:
I wanted to move back the Spiked Clubber, but Hydro vetoed that idea and said that it was there for a reason (nomads I think was the reason). I think that the Stone Maceman should recieve some buff (it seems to me like the odd one out in my games), but giving it an extra point of STR seems like too much. Maybe I'll reduce it's cost.
Also, isn't this the promotions thread?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Also, isn't this the promotions thread?
Well in my view the unit should be the spear man with promotions (starts with wooden tip no armour and no shield; upgrades promotions to hardened wood tip, stone tip, obsidian tip, copper tip, bronze tip and iron tip; no armour, hide armour, metal armour; no shield, whicker shield, wooden shield, metal shield) upgrades to phalanx (starts with copper tip, metal armour and metal shield) or pikeman ( starts with iron tip; metal shield and armour)
Or maybe abetter way of saying it is promotions available to spearman are:-
start with wooden tip -> hardened wood tip -> stone tip -> obsidian tip -> copper tip -> bronze tip -> iron tip
start with no armour -> leather armour -> metal armour
start with no shield -> wicker shield -> wooden shield -> metal shield
start with no armour -> leather armour -> metal armour
start with no shield -> wicker shield -> wooden shield -> metal shield
Promotions are preserved or merged to base unit in the line
Spearman -> Phalanx -> Pikeman
Atl-Atl still get spear upgrades but can't have shield and can only get up to leather armour. Same for archers.
One advantage to this is that you could get away with fewer unit graphics
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