C2C: Promotions

[Hydromancerx]

Turn Tribal Guardian into a Law Enforcement unit by Subcombat if it isn't already.

I agree.

Make Tribal Guardian a buildable unit (not to take anything away from the way it works now) but more expensive. No native crime decrease but access to the promos that can and keep it immovable of course. This is to set us up for some future work on the anti-units hidden in city project.

I do not think they should be buildable. I think they should stay as a one time only beginning unit.

I think it would be a very useful tech. For the Law Enforcement stuff it doesn't seem to fit for me... I guess I'm thinking more of a Social Code, a dawning understanding that rules need to be established, even if they are only consensus agreements on the way things should and shouldn't be done (pre-code of laws).

Not sure if Warrior Code needed if its not used for that.

 

[ls612]

Turn Tribal Guardian into a Law Enforcement unit by Subcombat if it isn't already.

It already is.

Make Tribal Guardian a buildable unit (not to take anything away from the way it works now) but more expensive. No native crime decrease but access to the promos that can and keep it immovable of course. This is to set us up for some future work on the anti-units hidden in city project.

I think that people are missing the point of why I made the Tribal Guardian in the first place. It was to ensure that each and every civ survived into the Ancient era at least so that there would be more competition and fewer massive blobs in the later eras. Before, civs could easily be wiped out by bad luck with Neanders in the area, and the AI's tendency to not guard their city didn't help the matter.

 

[God-Emperor]

I also would not make the Tribal Guardian a normal unit. Maybe a national unit with a limit of 1 so that if it should be killed, but your civ survives anyway, you can then rebuild it. But not a normal unit.

 

[ls612]

I also would not make the Tribal Guardian a normal unit. Maybe a national unit with a limit of 1 so that if it should be killed, but your civ survives anyway, you can then rebuild it. But not a normal unit.

It can't be built at all, it is given at the start by a Python script when you found your first city.

 

[God-Emperor]

It can't be built at all, it is given at the start by a Python script when you found your first city.

Well, yes: currently. And the way it currently works is fine. I prefer keeping it the way it is.

But if making it a buildable unit, then I think it should be a national unit with a limit of 1, not a normal unlimited unit or even like a lot of the culture units which are national units but with high limits. It should also be immune to the option that gives "unlimited national units" as well.

 

[strategyonly]

It can't be built at all, it is given at the start by a Python script when you found your first city.

Well, yes: currently. And the way it currently works is fine. I prefer keeping it the way it is.

But if making it a buildable unit, then I think it should be a national unit with a limit of 1, not a normal unlimited unit or even like a lot of the culture units which are national units but with high limits. It should also be immune to the option that gives "unlimited national units" as well.

I completely agree with you guys, it should NOT be buildable.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I completely agree with you guys, it should NOT be buildable.

I agree.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I agree.

Ok, so its a powerful unit. For a while anyhow. Making unbuildable for any further early cities then means that it is completely insufficient as an early Law Enforcement unit. We'd discussed having them be 'the unit' capable of potentially kicking out or arresting criminal units that had infiltrated the city but if you can't get more than the first one and you can't get anything else that can until town watch then we need a new unit to fill that role.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok, so its a powerful unit. For a while anyhow. Making unbuildable for any further early cities then means that it is completely insufficient as an early Law Enforcement unit. We'd discussed having them be 'the unit' capable of potentially kicking out or arresting criminal units that had infiltrated the city but if you can't get more than the first one and you can't get anything else that can until town watch then we need a new unit to fill that role.

Why can't you build the Lookout line of buildings or even the Punishment line of buildings to deal with early crime? Waiting till Masonry is not that long. How out of hand is your crime getting by Early Ancient Era?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Depends on the traits of course. Extraordinarily out of hand by then if on Nomadic/Aggressive

But it's not so much about controlling crime that concerns me. It's the role the units must play in defending the city against criminals. Without any Law Enforcement units available pre-masonry, there's an inability to establish a mechanism for units to uproot the rogues and such that come in and hide out in the city. This is a project nearing on the list and I'm asking a bit before it becomes an issue to be able to have a weak Law Enforcement unit available much much earlier.

So we give the guy no innate -Crime, sure, but he'd have access to a single promotion along the crime fighting line and (once I've got that project completed in the programming side) a promotionline that helps them to root out enemy criminals from the city.

When I brought it up before when planning that project, you mentioned to use the tribal guardian. But if it's that objectionable to be able to build more tribal guardians then we need another unit. Like an Enforcer perhaps that thugs his way around town making sure everyone's doing the chief's bidding.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@TB

Well you can make Canine units to detect Rogue units before Masonry tech.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@TB

Well you can make Canine units to detect Rogue units before Masonry tech.

But they can't kick the foreign thief/bandit units out of the city. That is the current hole in the crime stuff. Personally I would not have a unit for it at all just use something similar to how the spy may be discovered and killed.

 

[strategyonly]

But they can't kick the foreign thief/bandit units out of the city. That is the current hole in the crime stuff. Personally I would not have a unit for it at all just use something similar to how the spy may be discovered and killed.

Exactly, because nobody is supposed to know who or where they are

 

[ls612]

But they can't kick the foreign thief/bandit units out of the city. That is the current hole in the crime stuff. Personally I would not have a unit for it at all just use something similar to how the spy may be discovered and killed.

We could make an outcome which kicks all non-friendly units from a city and assign it to Law Enforcement units.

 

[strategyonly]

We could make an outcome which kicks all non-friendly units from a city and assign it to Law Enforcement units.

That would NOT be prudent, IMPO, how do you know if the house your living in, the next door neighbor is NOT a Thief, Assassin, etc etc??? Sometimes you should not be thinking game terms??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That would NOT be prudent, IMPO, how do you know if the house your living in, the next door neighbor is NOT a Thief, Assassin, etc etc??? Sometimes you should not be thinking game terms??

That is why the police use your place as a stake out to watch said neighbour - been there helped the police with their surveillance. So yes I am for police units having a passive chance of removing a criminal units but not an active chance. If it is active then you will just press the action button every turn anyway.

 

[strategyonly]

That is why the police use your place as a stake out to watch said neighbour - been there helped the police with their surveillance. So yes I am for police units having a passive chance of removing a criminal units but not an active chance. If it is active then you will just press the action button every turn anyway.

OK i can deal with that then.

 

[Yudishtira]

That is why the police use your place as a stake out to watch said neighbour - been there helped the police with their surveillance. So yes I am for police units having a passive chance of removing a criminal units but not an active chance. If it is active then you will just press the action button every turn anyway.

Consider that it could be active but have a downside especially if used too often. The downside could be:
- temporary or permanent that increases exponentially as it stacks;
- instability points;
- reduced and/or increased crime, due to people being more secretive and actively avoiding Big Brother's law enforcement "snooping".

And (my favourite) it could be all four together!

 

[Koshling]

Consider that it could be active but have a downside especially if used too often. The downside could be:
- temporary or permanent that increases exponentially as it stacks;
- instability points;
- reduced and/or increased crime, due to people being more secretive and actively avoiding Big Brother's law enforcement "snooping".

And (my favourite) it could be all four together!

Too much micro-management. I vote for passive, increasable by promotions (at least as the main mechanism)

 

[Thunderbrd]

I tried finding where I laid out 'the plan' for this before but I couldn't locate it so apparently its been a while since it was last discussed. So I'll lay it out for y'all again and see if you feel it would still be as good a fit as we determined it would be last time.

1) Establish for Law Enforcement units a unit ability (that may be enhanced by promos) to 'Investigate'. Each Law Enforcement unit checks its Investigate skill each round that a base % chance to find and potentially arrest Criminal units that are hiding out in the same tile.

This would be made a bit more generic than simply law enforcement vs crime as other applications are envisioned, but would be based on Combat Class nevertheless.

2) Establish for Criminals (generally) the opposing ability of 'Infiltrate', their ability to go undercover in a town and evade arrest. This, too, would be a skill set that may be enhanced by promotions. When Investigation checks are made against the unit, the opposing Investigate skill is modified by the Criminal's Infiltrate skill. (I may play with this formula a bit to find something that creates a bit more intrigue but this would be the basic concept anyhow.)

3) The check is made passively each round. Each Law Enforcement unit gets a check, probably against a random local criminal unit (if there are multiple ones). A variety of results can stem from this check based on the degree of its success from initiating a same-tile combat, to pushing the enemy out a space, to forcing the enemy to flee back to the capital to simply finding more evidence and making the next check more likely, to the automatic destruction of the Criminal, to the arrest and interrogation of the criminal (with some options presented perhaps) etc...

4) Small amounts of XP would be awarded for Law Enforcement for successful Investigate checks and for Criminals when the Law Enforcement looking for them fail.

5) Buildings will be able to influence both the Detection and Infiltration skills of local units, as would some specialists.

This plan is easy to program really. It's just a bit of a 'larger project' and I just need to find the time and priority to do so.