C2C: Promotions

[Dancing Hoskuld]

No, the hover over for both promotions is the same!

 

[Thunderbrd]

For some reason privateers can get both blitz and sniper promotions which both give "multiple attacks".

Is this causing an ingame problem? Usually in such situations where the same bool tag applies more than once, it adds to a count of how many sources of cause for the bool to be true the unit has so if one source is ever removed, the remaining source remains effective. Therefore it should not be a problem to overlap promos that allow the multiple attack ability.

That said, I say all this not quite sure what the 'issue' is you may really be trying to point out here that may involve more than just that one tag...

Ah... the hoverover is the same so you mean to say the promotions do the same thing exactly? This may be due to one of the effects on one of the promos not applying to that unit thus being invisible.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I just find it strange that my ships can use enemy roads is all.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Poison Tips: Gotta say... it makes sense that Gunpowder units of any kind wouldn't get this advantage and does not make sense if they do.

Tattoos: Tattoos doesn't sound like something that would apply for anything more advanced than the Renaissance age though so I'd think that should have wider access but also be turned off with a tech obsoletion at some point.

Playing devil's advocate for a sec ...

1. A bayonet on a firearm could still have Poison Tips.

2. Modern troops get Tattoos all the time which have just as much significance to them than it did in early times. Not to mention gang Tattoos on Criminal units. Just saying.

 

[BlueGenie]

1. Poison tips: What about Archer, Recon, Hunter, and other non-gunpowder units? Possibly not some of the mounted units but Horse Archers might be able to use them?

2. Tattoos I can see being carried on until mechanized troops. Those probably should not get any benefit from them. *laugh*

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

Playing devil's advocate for a sec ...

1. A bayonet on a firearm could still have Poison Tips.

2. Modern troops get Tattoos all the time which have just as much significance to them than it did in early times. Not to mention gang Tattoos on Criminal units. Just saying.

I buy the concept on Tattoos. So perhaps they should not obsolete and the unit ranges that should have access to those should widen. Agreed.

The poisoned bayonet, however, would not be very meaningful in most gunpowder conflicts as bayonets rarely require use. So I would probably, as a general rule, advocate its obsoletion on any unit that has become primarily a gun wielding type.

That argument also points out that we should consider giving that promotion access to mounted fighters who utilize weapons in a melee range conflict such as anything before curaisiers (sp?).

However, it could be taken into account in an equipment/combat mechanism I do eventually plan to implement that actually does change the stats of the unit to melee if it runs out of ammunition during a battle. Such a poisoned bayonet would then become effective at that time but would not be influencing the battle until the unit does actually make that switch.

 

[ls612]

I just find it strange that my ships can use enemy roads is all.

Blitz was apparently enabled for all Planes and Ships! The Planes part is certainly bad given the current way things work so I've deleted it, and I've commented out the part about ships, as it may be intended to work that way.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Blitz was apparently enabled for all Planes and Ships! The Planes part is certainly bad given the current way things work so I've deleted it, and I've commented out the part about ships, as it may be intended to work that way.

The multiple attacks per round is fine ie Blitz, as it only gives multiple attacks per round. It is the sniper promotion that gives multiple attacks per round and the ability to use enemy roads and extra first strike that is the problem.

 

[ls612]

The multiple attacks per round is fine ie Blitz, as it only gives multiple attacks per round. It is the sniper promotion that gives multiple attacks per round and the ability to use enemy roads and extra first strike that is the problem.

OK, I can fix that for ships too. The Blitz changes were needed for Aircraft in DCM anyways, but I'll go and change that now.

 

[charlesb96]

Instead of Blitz perhaps a new promotion for ships, call it Fire Control? this would give ships just the multiple attack. And instead of March, call it Damage Control, just for ships.

and speaking of March, I think it is too powerful of a promotion to come so early, perhaps instead of prehistoric dance, move it to folk dance?

 

[Hydromancerx]

and speaking of March, I think it is too powerful of a promotion to come so early, perhaps instead of prehistoric dance, move it to folk dance?

Sounds good.

 

[Yudishtira]

2. Tattoos I can see being carried on until mechanized troops. Those probably should not get any benefit from them. *laugh*

Cheers

Strange as it may seem, planes certainly had (the equivalent of) intimidatory and/or morale-boosting 'tattoos'.

- you would not want to see an all-red Fokker DrI (or Albatros?) coming at you in WWI
- (mainly?) German squadrons in WWI had insignia relating to their nicknames or mottos painted on their planes
- mainly American WWII fighters sometimes had shark teeth designs painted on them
- (mainly?) American bombers were sometimes named after pretty 'dames' and had 'tatts' to match (eg. Memphis Belle, Enola Gay)

 

[ls612]

Instead of Blitz perhaps a new promotion for ships, call it Fire Control? this would give ships just the multiple attack. And instead of March, call it Damage Control, just for ships.

and speaking of March, I think it is too powerful of a promotion to come so early, perhaps instead of prehistoric dance, move it to folk dance?

1. I'd make different promotions for Naval Units, the whole multiple attacks thing could become too powerful given the relative scarcity of naval units compared to land units. But those ideas seem good in theory, I'll work on them.
2. Given how much of an XP investment is needed for March I don't think it is necessary to have it to Folk Dance. But I can do it if others want it, it isn't too big of a deal.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Strange as it may seem, planes certainly had (the equivalent of) intimidatory and/or morale-boosting 'tattoos'.

- you would not want to see an all-red Fokker DrI (or Albatros?) coming at you in WWI
- (mainly?) German squadrons in WWI had insignia relating to their nicknames or mottos painted on their planes
- mainly American WWII fighters sometimes had shark teeth designs painted on them
- (mainly?) American bombers were sometimes named after pretty 'dames' and had 'tatts' to match (eg. Memphis Belle, Enola Gay)

I'm liking the way this conversation has heated things up in a positive direction - real adaptation to long standing problems!

As for this tattoo issue you bring up on planes and possibly mechanized units, perhaps we should design a new promotion for the same concept and call it Insignia or something to that extent.

 

[charlesb96]

The original idea of Tattoos might have been in the line of Celt, Maori and other full body tattoos, to scare the enemy. And yes, I think it has been carried over into the modern age, not as tattoos but as equipment and paint jobs. Yes, that Red Tri-Plane frightened many a pilot into making mistakes, the Shark Mouth on the Flying Tigers, The Winged helmets of some of the knights, putting a pipe on the barrel of your 76mm cannon of the Sherman to make the enemy think it is an 88 or even a 105mm, (Kelly's Heroes). The boost is not actual strength but believed strength, fear.

 

[strategyonly]

The original idea of Tattoos might have been in the line of Celt, Maori and other full body tattoos, to scare the enemy. And yes, I think it has been carried over into the modern age, not as tattoos but as equipment and paint jobs. Yes, that Red Tri-Plane frightened many a pilot into making mistakes, the Shark Mouth on the Flying Tigers, The Winged helmets of some of the knights, putting a pipe on the barrel of your 76mm cannon of the Sherman to make the enemy think it is an 88 or even a 105mm, (Kelly's Heroes). The boost is not actual strength but believed strength, fear.

Yes tattoo's even today are VERY big in the at least the US Military, BUT as i was informed, it is actually AGAINST Military Doctrine to have one, after you have joined the Military, they call it "Defacing Government Property."

btw mine was "CHairborne."

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

With Canine Domestication tech being moved to require Hunting Tactics tech it kind of messes up the Canine promotions. So please change the following promotions ...

Pack Hunter II
Req Tech: Animal Husbandry

Racing Dog II
Req Tech: Animal Husbandry

Hunting Dog II
Req Tech: Animal Husbandry

Track Scent II
Req Tech: Animal Husbandry

Thanks!

Since this got burred and forgotten I went and changed them myself.

 

[ls612]

Since this got burred and forgotten I went and changed them myself.

My access to the SVN seems to be broken for some reason, I'll post more about it in the SVN thread.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@strategyonly

Too late! Here are new icons/buttons for Chemical I, Chemical II and Chemical III using the Chemical symbol. Note the other uses the Radioactive symbol so it should be fine for those promotions. Enjoy!

SO you also changed Radioactive Shells and Fusion Shells promotions! They should have stayed the same. They looked fine. But now you have the Chemical ones for them. Now you made them the same again which defeats the purpose of making new icon/buttons for them. Please change those back but leave the Chemical ones with the new icon/buttons. Understand?

 

[strategyonly]

@strategyonly



SO you also changed Radioactive Shells and Fusion Shells promotions! They should have stayed the same. They looked fine. But now you have the Chemical ones for them. Now you made them the same again which defeats the purpose of making new icon/buttons for them. Please change those back but leave the Chemical ones with the new icon/buttons. Understand?

Never touched them?? Look at SVN, i haven't done anything with PromotionInfo in months. Infact i went all the way back to 3 Dec and still nothing except Heroic Btn.