C2C: Promotions

[platyping]

I know you don't, but DH will if he think that is a simple enough solution.

 

[Thunderbrd]

RE the NEGA problem: Seeing this in my wife's game. I'd suggest to implement a promotion line that has 5 layers, each one adding just 1% chance to start a golden age on victory AND increases the length of the golden age starting at the base being about 1/10th of the amount of time it takes now.

Recall that I added and exposed to python a dll function that could be called to start a golden age with a % indicator in the parameters of the call that would modify the length of the golden age in accordance with a normal golden age length. Thus if a normal golden age on the game speed being played on would be 10 rounds and you called this function with 10 as the % value you'd get a 1 round golden age. I can explain more on how to use this function if someone does pick up working on this further.

This NEGA phenomenon we have right now is really capable of ruining game balance to a very severe degree.

 

[Azurian]

Do we have all the Promotions for Civilization 4 Colonization in c2C?
http://www.colonizationfans.com/civ...tion/colonizopedia/combat-and-promotions.html

 

[platyping]

The main problem is in C2C, at extreme slow speed, GA becomes disgusting long, whereas in BTS, max was 32.
So a 20% GA in BTS is not a big deal, whereas a 20% GA here becomes 20 turns, giving plenty of time to find a next target to proc free GAs again.
Furthermore, setting it as Leader only promotion effectively prevents it from triggering via animals and barbs without the need to tune further, while in C2C animals roam like nobody business.

Ways to tune it down:
1) Do not allow it to trigger when GA is already active
2) Not from Barbs
3) Not from Animals
4) Remains at 20%, but add a min and max turns, such that even at fast speeds, it is min 1 turn, or at super slow speed, wont exceed x turns.
5) Kill Unit after triggering

 

[Thunderbrd]

Do we have all the Promotions for Civilization 4 Colonization in c2C?
http://www.colonizationfans.com/civ...tion/colonizopedia/combat-and-promotions.html

Looks like the concepts in those promos are included in c2c at least.

Don't worry... promos will be well fleshed out and strategically rebalanced before too long from now.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I do not have trouble with Golden Ages, I can't chain them very well etc. However I don't play with Great Commanders.

It is fairly easy to exclude barbarians (and animals) from the trigger. However we have a Barbarian Generals option that turns on/off experience (and GAs) from Barbarian and Animal combat. Do we want this change added to that option? Ie if on then you also get GAs from them.

 

[strategyonly]

I do not have trouble with Golden Ages, I can't chain them very well etc. However I don't play with Great Commanders.

It is fairly easy to exclude barbarians (and animals) from the trigger. However we have a Barbarian Generals option that turns on/off experience (and GAs) from Barbarian and Animal combat. Do we want this change added to that option? Ie if on then you also get GAs from them.

If the guys complaining about the Heroic 2, say its OK then sure, why not.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I don't believe that would be nearly enough of a measure taken to keep it rational. If you stay at war fairly consistently which some play styles will, you can really achieve a never ending golden age (my wife's game built up to 400+ rounds of GA and was only growing.)

 

[Nimek]

Yes everlasting GA is big bug in C2C AI dont "know" how to plan to use that strategy.

This is one of game concepts that is easy to exploit to beat AI.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am not seeing this. There are only a few wonders that give GA's the rest you need to get with great people. Each GP type we add increases the number you can have. Which means 6 iirc at the moment.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It comes from that simple promotion. 5% chance to cause a 10 rnd golden age on each combat victory on a unit that attacks 3 times each round means you can quite easily achieve limitless GAs. Particularly when you build up 3 such units or so. Limiting it to only working on combat with units from other civs (not barbs) doesn't stop this at all - just means you need to be at war a lot... and its quite easy to play cat and mouse with a weaker enemy.

 

[platyping]

Looking at the previous posts... you mean 20 rounds instead of 10
When I design it for BTS, the max possible was 8 rounds even in Marathon BTS, or 12 with Masoulleum Wonder.

20 is obviously OP, considering you can even trigger it on animals.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It comes from that simple promotion. 5% chance to cause a 10 rnd golden age on each combat victory on a unit that attacks 3 times each round means you can quite easily achieve limitless GAs. Particularly when you build up 3 such units or so. Limiting it to only working on combat with units from other civs (not barbs) doesn't stop this at all - just means you need to be at war a lot... and its quite easy to play cat and mouse with a weaker enemy.

So as I almost never go to war I don't have limitless GA's. Sounds like an exploit but whatever you do don't penalise me because I don't fight wars just penalise those who use the promotion. IE make the promotion balanced.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That's what we're asking for!!! It just requires tweaking the python behind that promo and perhaps a bit more restructuring to make it 'classier'.

I'd suggest to implement a promotion line that has 5 layers, each one adding just 1% chance to start a golden age on victory AND increases the length of the golden age starting at the base being about 1/10th of the amount of time it takes now.

Recall that I added and exposed to python a dll function that could be called to start a golden age with a % indicator in the parameters of the call that would modify the length of the golden age in accordance with a normal golden age length. Thus if a normal golden age on the game speed being played on would be 10 rounds and you called this function with 10 as the % value you'd get a 1 round golden age. I can explain more on how to use this function if someone does pick up working on this further.

And

Ways to tune it down:
1) Do not allow it to trigger when GA is already active
2) Not from Barbs
3) Not from Animals
4) Remains at 20%, but add a min and max turns, such that even at fast speeds, it is min 1 turn, or at super slow speed, wont exceed x turns.
5) Kill Unit after triggering

To which I would agree, no barbs, no animals.

I'd rather see:
Heroic I: 1% chance to start a 5% length golden age (min 1 rnd)
Heroic II: +1% chance to start a golden age of +5% length
Heroic III: +1% chance to start a golden age of +5% length
Heroic IV: +1% chance to start a golden age of +5% length
Heroic V: +1% chance to start a golden age of +5% length. (thus by this point the unit has a 5% chance to start a GA of 25% the length of a normal GA started by normal means. Hugely powerful yes but highly earned and we may need to train the AI to hunt that unit down with the greatest strength it can muster at all costs)

Each checked on a victory against a non-barb/non-animal unit. Such Promotions should be made invalid to Hidden Nationality units.

 

[platyping]

How you know my nick derived from that animal
Some thought it was from platy fish.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm insightful

 

[Azurian]

I might hear a "we already have that" but is their a promotion to increase Flammability on a plot or city? Flaming Arrows, Napalm, Flame Trebuchet (shoot hay fireballs), Flame Ship (age of empires),. Flamethrower.

Arson I (+15 flammability for 5 turns)
Arson II (+30 flammability for 10 turns)
Arson III (+45 flammability for 15 turns)

Maybe also give it city attack.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Flammability isn't a dynamic property so I don't think it's doable with current coding. At some point in Combat Mod development I figure flame wielding units will get a deeper utility of design and that's not a bad idea conceptually.

 

[Azurian]

Also I think Cities should have HP.
Probably Population x 10 with a base of 100.

Population 1 =100
Population 2=300
Population 3 =400

Seige would obviously be very effective. You can capture city without having to kill civilians only military.

 

[Hydromancerx]

It would be cool if Spies could do Arson missions that raise a cities flammability.