[C2C] Ramkhamhaeng of the Incas

The problem with being a little civilization caught between two major civilizations is that you're only going to last as long as the major civilizations decide you aren't worth wiping out. In this case, I have decided that Washington is worth wiping out.

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I line up my three field armies and storm into Arabia. It takes three turns--one turn to declare war and march in, one turn to burn Leiria and Braga, and one turn to take down the last of Washington's Stone Axemen that got lucky and defeated one of my Pikemen, leaving me one unit short of taking Evora on the second turn of the war.

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Also, Washington apparently vassalized to Gilgamesh just before I took out his last city. Hint: It doesn't work when the empire you're vassalizing to is also at war.

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I found the city of Chuito between a river and a lake near the ruins of Evora, building it on what I consider an excellent city site. This is also to occupy some more territory so nobody else can settle it. I hate AI's that invade every square inch of unoccupied land.

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Menelik offers a trade that I probably should have taken, but I didn't want to let Mounted Archery out of my hands just yet. Civil Service is a ways down the line for me.

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Gilgamesh's rebel problems aren't over just because I took out Washington. Augustus Caesar of the Iroquois appears and takes one of Gilgamesh's remaining cities.

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Meanwhile, Tiwanaku has built the last Zoroastrian wonder: the Apadana Palace. This grants the Order of Ormazd promotion to units built in the city, which grants them +15% City Attack and City Defense. Each religion has a specific promotion that is normally only open to units with Led by Warlord (a Great General attached, or something like the Warlord Vassal, Noble, or captured Warlord), but the Apadana grants it for free.

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Armor Crafting is my next tech.

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This lets me upgrade all my Swordsmen to Heavy Swordsmen, raising them from Strength 10 to 13. As if I needed it, but I decide that it's better not to leave anything to chance and spend some of my vast treasury on the upgrades. Also, if you're watching the scoreboard, Gilgamesh is now down to one city. He must have really mismanaged his empire. I also upgrade my Pikemen to Heavy Pikemen, raising them to Strength 9.

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I found two more cities on land taken from the Carthaginians/Portuguese/Arabs:

Chuquiapo (on the site of Hadrumentum that I burned so long ago)

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Huanaco Pampa (on the ruins of Coimbra)

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I research Engineering next. I can now build Trebuchets and Crossbowmen. I don't think I need them at this point.

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I find an interesting Wonder combination. I built the Theatre of Dionysus in Ica. All of my cities are having War Weariness problems, and the Theatre shuts down unhappiness completely in one city. There are several Wonders in C2C that do this, and the Theatre is one of them.

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Having the Theatre of Dionysus gives me the perfect place to build the Olympic Games. The Games provide a small amount of happiness in all cities in exchange for virtually shutting down this city's military unit production (but I already have my armies in the field and other cities that can build units) and a massive war weariness penalty. The Theatre means I can ignore the war weariness penalty completely.

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For some reason, Kublai Khan's favorite civic in C2C is Proletariat. I turn him down when he asks me to convert to it -- I'm not going to have a revolution in the middle of a war.

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I research Fundamentalism next. I got it just because it was cheap and I will need it eventually for Divine Right.

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One more city: Tamboccocha, in the west. I'll build cities northwest of it once the other civilizations are gone.

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Next time: The end of the war.
 
Great update. Two questions though:

1) The Olympic games gives happiness in all cities right? And the WW penalty is only in the city it's built in?

2) You like burning cities, don't you. ;)
 
Great update. Two questions though:

1) The Olympic games gives happiness in all cities right? And the WW penalty is only in the city it's built in?

Yes to both. There's a Declaration of Human Rights wonder later on that inflicts a War Weariness penalty to ALL cities everywhere in the world.

2) You like burning cities, don't you. ;)

Yes, I really like burning cities. I've found that running Slavery and burning nearly every city I conquer lets me rush wonders until into the modern age. Since you don't lose your slaves when you switch out of slavery, they can hang around for a very long time.

Also, quashing revolts seems to take forever due to rebel reinforcements. I've managed to go this far without revolutions in my own cities, and Lisbon hasn't revolted at all yet, but there will come some revolutions of my own. I had to deal with one with some truly overwhelming force.
 
Yes to both. There's a Declaration of Human Rights wonder later on that inflicts a War Weariness penalty to ALL cities everywhere in the world.



Yes, I really like burning cities. I've found that running Slavery and burning nearly every city I conquer lets me rush wonders until into the modern age. Since you don't lose your slaves when you switch out of slavery, they can hang around for a very long time.

Also, quashing revolts seems to take forever due to rebel reinforcements. I've managed to go this far without revolutions in my own cities, and Lisbon hasn't revolted at all yet, but there will come some revolutions of my own. I had to deal with one with some truly overwhelming force.

In your opinion, do you think that this strategy is overpowered?
 
I do think so. Just imagine settling them as citizens with representation :rolleyes:
 
In your opinion, do you think that this strategy is overpowered?

I'm thinking it is, but it only works under certain conditions. You either have to have to hunt Neanderthals or have large but technologically inferior civilizations nearby to get the slaves. You also have stay in Slavery, which can hold you back from the more advanced economic civics.
 
So here we are, lining up for the big showdown between Inca and Portugal over the last Portuguese city, Santarem.

Gilgamesh has two fairly substantial stacks of units, the first in his city:

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The second stack is between my two armies, two tiles south:

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Meanwhile, I have my own First Army next to Santarem:

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The Third Army is marching to join it. It's just south of Gilgamesh's second stack.

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The Second Army is in the northeast for the inevitable attack on Augustus.

We're setting up for the final grand brawl... when this happens:

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In what I can only describe as a completely boneheaded move, Gilgamesh rejected the demands of his last remaining city and they threw him out. I was really surprised by this--at first I thought enough Iroquois troops had been generated as rebel reinforcements to take the city. Gilgamesh's remaining forces evaporate and my war weariness disappears. This was not exactly the way I wanted this war to end, but I'll take it.

A revolting city can expel your garrison forces when it converts to another civilization. Normally, the expelled units sit right next to the city and can retake it on the next move... but if it's your last city, that's not an option. Gilgamesh is gone and I'm left with one rival on my continent. The Iroquois power level is 0.1 of mine.

I actually reloaded a previous save to check Santarem's instability level right before the revolt.

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1000 instability is bad. Santarem's was 3040 in that screenshot. In fact, it was in the middle of a small revolt at the time. A major revolt was inevitable.

The destruction of the Portuguese and the removal of their culture lets Augustus take over the space. Since I have a Right of Passage but not Open Borders with Augustus, this actually expels my First Army from Iroquois land except for my Apothecary and my Field Commander. They regroup south of the Iroquois.

While this was going on, I finished researching Guilds:

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Guilds does some heavy damage to my economy as it obsoletes several Prehistoric-era and Ancient-era gold producers.

Frederick offers to trade me Sanitation for Papacy. Since the Apostolic Palace is already in my hands, I decide that this is a fair trade and accept:
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I generate Benjamin Banneker as another Great Scientist. He sits for now. I will admit that in this game I was very bad about using Great People. I think I was concentrating too much on saving them for the endgame and didn't realize that some of the late-game tech costs have been vastly increased to fix this. Great Artists are particularly hard to use since I don't really need Great Works and don't want to use them for anything else.

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I go from Guilds to Paper:

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I get a revolt warning from Lisbon. It's not revolting yet, but it will if things continue the way they are. I really want Augustus out of the way first, so I train a Town Watchmen unit (which decreases the chance of revolt in a city by 10%) and make plans to change to a more stable government as soon as I am finished fighting.

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I can spot three Iroquois cities from what I can see, and I can conclude that the fourth city lies in the north.

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All I have to do is send in my armies. The Third Army kicks of the fireworks by burning Sagres:

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The First Army has a little bit further to march before it burns Santarem:

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The Second Army does the most damage as it burns Faro before finishing off the Iroquois with the burning of Braganza:

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While this little war was going on, I researched two more technologies, Civil Service and Invention:

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Fun fact: In the XML files, Invention's name is Alchemy.

I also used slaves to rush two more wonders. I build the University of Sankore in Ollantayambo and Edinburgh's Castle in Ica.

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Finally, I'm in total control of my starting continent. This has been an early-game goal for me since I started playing Civilization I. The western sections are totally empty and ready for settling. Those remaining purple squares are the result of Forts that I simply haven't claimed yet.

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Next time: You say you want a revolution?
 
Nice!
And yes, I want a revolution :mwaha:
 
Viva La Revolución!
 
Not possible when dealing with an AI.

OK, how about "trade I don't expect to bitterly regret in 20 turns"? I do have twice his power and almost twice his score, so it's going to be hard for him to turn this against me.
 
HJ, what would he do with Papacy anyway ;)
Ok, it's a prerequisite. Fine. But it helps Vokarya too, and sanitation is more useful than papacy.
 
I've held off on a revolution since I switched to Monarchy because I didn't want to deal with both war and anarchy at the same time. I also wanted to run Slavery until I'd taken every enemy city on my continent. Now, with no other rival civilizations on my continent and three field armies ready to take on any rebels, I can take the time for a major restructuring of my civics. I'm changing civics in NINE categories at once.

I choose Republic as my Government civic. This is the first Government civic that offers a stability bonus rather than a lessened level of instability. With the hard city caps of version 16 in place, Monarchy or Republic are my only choices at this time.

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I switch my Power civic all the way from the default Junta to Senate.

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I choose Feudal as a Society civic. It's a little more unstable than Caste, but it offers +1 XP for new units and it gets rid of Caste's -50% Great Person Production penalty.

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I set my Economy civic to Guilds. While Slavery has its uses, I've run out of cities on my continent to capture and raze and the maintenance costs add up. I plan on overseas war in the future, but under those conditions it's a lot harder to transport the slaves to where they can be useful.

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I choose Vassalage as a Military civic. It's much more useful than the Conscription civic I've been running up to now.

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I switch Welfare civics from Church to Public Works.

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I choose the Landfills civic for my Garbage civic. I didn't want the diplomacy hit for Waste to Sea. Yes, in C2C, you set your civilization's garbage policy.

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I choose an Open Borders civic for my Immigration policy.

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Finally, I choose Apprenticeship for my Education civic. I lose a little bit of science by switching out of Written Tradition but gain hammers.

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So, the only civics to not change are my Religious civic (I'm staying in State Church for now) and my Language civic (I have Interpreters and the next level isn't available until Compulsory Education in the Industrial Era). This Anarchy will take me 7 turns. I should probably have sacrificed a Great Person for a Golden Age, but I was hoarding them at the time.

I can still found cities during Anarchy, and I've had Settlers and Longbowmen waiting for open land. I found the city of Huaras in the west.

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The Rare Writings event gives me a bonus to the Library in Corihuayrachina. I should have plenty of money coming in once I get out of Anarchy.

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Turn 551 reveals that I am the most powerful. I had better be -- no one else on the scoreboard has even half my power level. I like the combination of fairly large (4-6 units) garrison forces plus self-contained field armies that are my attacking forces. I'm not even upgrading my original garrisons. Some cities still have Archers and Tomahawk Throwers.

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Riobamba is my next city, in the far west.

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Another opportunity to trade away a technology that I've already milked the Wonder out of. Lincoln offers Stirrup for Paper, and I accept.

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I witness the first revolt that I didn't have a hand in causing. Joao II of Egypt breaks away from Menelik of Hatti. However, Joao is a vassal state, so he's not really an independent player just yet.

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He also has Clockworks, which I get in a trade for Smithing. Clockworks is useful enough that I am willing to trade away a potential military technology (Smithing allows Swordsmen).

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Finally, I come out of Anarchy and finish researching Optics. I now start building some Caravels to explore the oceans.

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Next time: Medieval tech-churning.
 
Nice!
Although I was hoping for a break-off revolution which you gloriously beat down instead of a mere civic switch...
 
Nice!
Although I was hoping for a break-off revolution which you gloriously beat down instead of a mere civic switch...

That comes later. I will have one during this game, but I try my hardest to avoid revolutions - they are simply so hard to completely put down. This is one of the reasons I keep the field armies of offensive troops around; rebel troops against decent garrisons usually results in a stand-off, but rebellions don't last long against both static defenses and mobile forces.

Version 18 makes avoiding revolutions even easier. All I have to do is hold back on the crime buildings but build punishment buildings (like Stocks and Gallows) in just about every city and it keeps city stability ratings at 0.
 
Well, I let this go for a little while. Time to dust it off and post more updates!

Frederick, I don't think you understand that "pacifism" does not mean "hire someone else to do your dirty work for you." While I agree the Japanese must be destroyed eventually, now is the not the time.

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Compass follows right on the heels of Optics. It's worth an additional +1 move for my naval units, which will hopefully get me the circumnavigation bonus.

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I generate Nain Singh as another Great Engineer and let him sleep. I want to use up my slaves first before I start using Great Engineers.

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Workers are tradeable in C2C once you've established an Embassy with another civilization. AI players are willing to trade a lot of cash for a Worker. In most cases with Multiple Production turned on, a good city can churn out 3-4 Workers in a single turn, making trading one Worker for close to 3 turns' income a pretty good investment.

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I manage to complete two techs in a single turn: Drug Trade and Weather Lore. Drug Trade is worth an immediate +1 trade route per city, and Weather Lore is worth another +1 move for water units.

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I found the city of Caxalmaca in the far northwest. I think I have only room for 1 city left on my starting continent.

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Menelik offers another trade: Usury for Armor Crafting. Usury is a weird technology because while C2C does not have any true "dead end" techs (techs that don't lead to anything), Usury is only on an OR path to Banking, so it can be skipped. I accept the trade anyway.

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I finish Poetry on the same turn. Despite being on Monarch difficulty and Marathon speed, I'm still finishing most technologies in 1-2 turns. I'm sweeping up a lot of Medieval era techs at this point before I blast off into the Renaissance.

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Crop Rotation comes next. This boosts my Farms more. I rarely build Cottages in C2C because Farms produce so much food in the late game and gold is pretty much everywhere.

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Agricultural Tools, on the other hand, does not give any bonus to Farms. It does increase the food of Watermills and Windmills, but I save Watermills for Tundra squares with rivers where I can't build anything else and Windmills for Hill tiles with Depleted Mines. Mines can deplete in C2C, and that means you have to build something else on that tile. I usually go with Windmills.

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Sausa fills in my last good city site on my starting landmass. I now have 24 cities on the continent, plus Aveiro on its island. I'm noticing that the AI players tend to fall apart at about 20 cities, if not before. I've had one revolt warning this game, and that was from my captured Lisbon.

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I buy contact with Peter of the Dutch through Tokugawa. You can also see from my minimap that I've got Caravels poking in opposite directions trying to circumnavigate the world. I'm starting to crank out a few more to start mapping the world. I may have met everyone, but I have no idea where anyone else is.

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I may be willing to trade technologies, but I'm not GIVING them away (at least, not until they're a couple eras old). Menelik will have to research Compass on his own.

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Meanwhile, I'm researching Heraldry. Heraldry is somewhat useful because it is required, along with Smithing, for the second Warlord unit; the Warlord Captain, which is Strength 15 (stronger than the Strength-13 Heavy Swordsmen making up my armies) and has a limit of 2, compared to 1 for the Warlord Chief.

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I get Surveying next as another civilization builds Notre Dame in a distant land. This is a warning bell for me, because it means another civilization has Architecture technology, so I swiftly research that next. These advances are still coming a turn apart.

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Architecture technology is required for Notre Dame. It's also required for several other wonders. I use some of my slaves to build three wonders in three different cities in one turn:

J. S. Bach's Cathedral in Ollantayambo

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The Leaning Tower of Pisa in Ica

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Porcelain Tower in Vitcos

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Education is my last technology of the Medieval Era before I begin the Renaissance. I can put a lot of cities on Universities to boost my science even further.

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Next time: Welcome to the Renaissance.
 
I use some of my slaves to build three wonders in three different cities in one turn:

:lol: the self-assurance with with you said it :p
 
The Porcelain Tower is so Over Powered :eek:
 
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