strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Exactly, HJ 
Did you found Islam?
Did you found Islam?
[C2C] Ramkhamhaeng of the Incas
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
The Porcelain Tower is so Over Powered
It is a pretty nice wonder, but for me, it doesn't have the WOW factor that I really associate with wonders -- like the Pyramids, or the Ishtar Gate, or the Piazza San Marco. At this point, though, I'm trying to grab every wonder that comes along.
Exactly, HJ
Did you found Islam?
No, someone else did. It was founded in a distant land on the turn that I discovered Compass (at the beginning of this update). Another AI probably beelined Education while I was sweeping up other medieval technologies. I haven't worried too much about founding religions once I had Zoroastrianism, although I think there are three religions that haven't been founded yet (Andeanism, Baha'i, and Scientology), and two bugged ones that can't be founded (Jainism and Sikhism).
mayor
Heart & Mind
nice
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
I forget if I already mentioned it, but isn't founding all the religions with Divine Prophets in the same city and then building Interfaith a bit op?
It probably would be, but Interfaith doesn't do anything right now. I tried building it a couple times in different cities and it didn't spread any religions. It is one of three Wonders/Projects that I consider to be too early. Piazza San Marco is the first; I built it in the Classical Era and it should be a Medieval wonder. Second would be Sydney Opera House, which requires only Realism technology, so it's technically available in the Renaissance. Interfaith is third. It should probably be set somewhere in the Modern era, but it's available at Liberalism.
The Renaissance begins as I discover Astronomy.
Discovering Astronomy nets me another Great Prophet (Narayana Guru) and Tiwaniku generates a Great Scientist (Wilhelm Rontgen) at about 11% odds.
I lose one of my world-searching Caravels to a random storm. On top of that, Menelik beats me to the circumnavigation bonus. I think that huge revolution I had cost me--I didn't get Optics, and thus couldn't get Caravels exploring, until after it was done. In the future, I will have to try and get Optics before I start any big medieval revolutions.
My first sight of another continent is America to the south. Washington DC is looking huge. It's also a triple holy city--Shinto, Taoism, and Voodoo.
I almost always go for Physics right after Astronomy for the free Great Scientist. I get Physics and Giordano Bruno as the Scientist.
The Baker's Guild founds itself in Corihuayrachina. With the "Realistic Corporations" option turned on, Corporations found, spread, and decay on their own. There are two sets of Corporations currently: the medieval Guilds and the modern Corporations.
Cuzco produces Theophrastus as a Great Prophet. I send him to Machu Picchu since I've got plans for him.
I see London, I see France... or at least I see London, and pretty lightly defended. I wonder if this will cause problems for Ashurbanipal? The revolts have been coming often for the AI civilizations this game.
I haven't actually seen France yet. I expect France to show up later after one of the inevitable revolts--although who knows who the French leader this game will be?
My next technology is Anatomy, which grants me my first Great Doctor. Great Doctors are somewhat hard to come by because C2C does not currently have Doctor specialists; they don't show up right on the city screen. So the only ways to get Great Doctors are by technologies (there are several techs that spawn GD's) or the rare wonder that offers Great Doctor points. I definitely want to hang onto the Doctor for now.
Theophrastus arrives in Machu Picchu and I use him for Coricancha. This is the Andean Shrine. I used Narayana Guru to found Andeanism is Machu Picchu (no religion movie for Andeanism, though). Machu Picchu starts training Andean Missionaries to spread the new religion throughout my civilization.
After researching three straight technologies for free Great People, I change gears a little and research Gunpowder.
I immediately follow up Gunpowder with Matchlock to be able to build Arquebusiers, the first Gunpowder ground unit.
I also get Mountaineering by trading away Weather Lore. Mountaineering is required to be able to cross and improve Peak squares.
Machu Picchu generates Yo Yo Ma as my first Great Artist. I missed out on the Artists for Music and Poetry technologies, so I get one the hard way. I really don't have a lot of use for Great Artists at this point, so I let him sleep. If you were counting, I just managed to generate six Great People in six turns.
Now that I have Matchlock and can build at least one kind of Gunpowder soldier, I need Leadership technology to build Garrisons. The Garrison building functions as a Barracks for post-gunpowder units, with the Barracks itself only able to benefit early-game units.
I start by blitzing through Constitution and Banking. I'll need Political Philosophy and Divine Right before I can research Leadership.
Finally, I use up a few more slaves building Copernicus's Observatory in Corihuayrachina and Isac Newton's College in Vilcas.
Next time: Is there ANYONE who can hold an empire together (except me)?
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Discovering Astronomy nets me another Great Prophet (Narayana Guru) and Tiwaniku generates a Great Scientist (Wilhelm Rontgen) at about 11% odds.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I lose one of my world-searching Caravels to a random storm. On top of that, Menelik beats me to the circumnavigation bonus. I think that huge revolution I had cost me--I didn't get Optics, and thus couldn't get Caravels exploring, until after it was done. In the future, I will have to try and get Optics before I start any big medieval revolutions.
Spoiler :
My first sight of another continent is America to the south. Washington DC is looking huge. It's also a triple holy city--Shinto, Taoism, and Voodoo.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I almost always go for Physics right after Astronomy for the free Great Scientist. I get Physics and Giordano Bruno as the Scientist.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
The Baker's Guild founds itself in Corihuayrachina. With the "Realistic Corporations" option turned on, Corporations found, spread, and decay on their own. There are two sets of Corporations currently: the medieval Guilds and the modern Corporations.
Spoiler :
Cuzco produces Theophrastus as a Great Prophet. I send him to Machu Picchu since I've got plans for him.
Spoiler :
I see London, I see France... or at least I see London, and pretty lightly defended. I wonder if this will cause problems for Ashurbanipal? The revolts have been coming often for the AI civilizations this game.
Spoiler :
I haven't actually seen France yet. I expect France to show up later after one of the inevitable revolts--although who knows who the French leader this game will be?
My next technology is Anatomy, which grants me my first Great Doctor. Great Doctors are somewhat hard to come by because C2C does not currently have Doctor specialists; they don't show up right on the city screen. So the only ways to get Great Doctors are by technologies (there are several techs that spawn GD's) or the rare wonder that offers Great Doctor points. I definitely want to hang onto the Doctor for now.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Theophrastus arrives in Machu Picchu and I use him for Coricancha. This is the Andean Shrine. I used Narayana Guru to found Andeanism is Machu Picchu (no religion movie for Andeanism, though). Machu Picchu starts training Andean Missionaries to spread the new religion throughout my civilization.
Spoiler :
After researching three straight technologies for free Great People, I change gears a little and research Gunpowder.
Spoiler :
I immediately follow up Gunpowder with Matchlock to be able to build Arquebusiers, the first Gunpowder ground unit.
Spoiler :
I also get Mountaineering by trading away Weather Lore. Mountaineering is required to be able to cross and improve Peak squares.
Spoiler :
Machu Picchu generates Yo Yo Ma as my first Great Artist. I missed out on the Artists for Music and Poetry technologies, so I get one the hard way. I really don't have a lot of use for Great Artists at this point, so I let him sleep. If you were counting, I just managed to generate six Great People in six turns.
Spoiler :
Now that I have Matchlock and can build at least one kind of Gunpowder soldier, I need Leadership technology to build Garrisons. The Garrison building functions as a Barracks for post-gunpowder units, with the Barracks itself only able to benefit early-game units.
I start by blitzing through Constitution and Banking. I'll need Political Philosophy and Divine Right before I can research Leadership.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Finally, I use up a few more slaves building Copernicus's Observatory in Corihuayrachina and Isac Newton's College in Vilcas.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Next time: Is there ANYONE who can hold an empire together (except me)?
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
I know you are the Inca and all, but do you really need all that money?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Check his research slider.
I still suggest settling those slaves
all those lost hammers...How much does sacrificing a slave give? 100 hammers? You would easily win that back on the long term.
Check his research slider.
I still suggest settling those slaves
How much does sacrificing a slave give? 100 hammers? You would easily win that back on the long term.
I normally keep my research slider at 100% since I don't really need culture and the AI shoots itself in the foot over espionage by over-building crime buildings (they cost you in espionage points). There are a couple cases where I've had to lower the science slider for cash or to check war-weariness.
I went back and re-loaded my AD 650 save to check the hammer bonus from sacrificing slaves. The bonus from sacrificing a slave varies by city size (it's similar to a Great Engineer rush), but from a size-20 city, one slave would produce 180 hammers, and I had a size-43 city that could get 318 hammers from one slave. I'd say it comes out pretty close, and I was more interested in beating the AI's to Wonders.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Vokarya, when I said 'check his research slider' I meant you couldn't convert the gold into research by running a deficit.
You're right. I wish I could push the research slider above 100% (or spend gold directly on research), but I can't. I think a lot of profit is coming from the automatic Markets from Piazza San Marco, along with the automatic Walls from Hadrian's Wall that are still producing 1 gold per turn each despite the fact that I'm no longer in Monarchy.
The other fun combination is the Zoroastrian and Andean shrines, and the Piazza San Marco, stacked with the +100% gold from Silk Road. While I don't usually specialize cities too much, I do pick one city to be a financial powerhouse.
I will need all that money in a few turns. Plus, I'm Inca, but I'm not Huayna. My leader traits are Expansive/Industrious, not Financial. Expansive is not all that awesome, but I'm really able to use Industrious.
Political Philosophy comes along to push me further towards Leadership. This will allow me to use the Parliament civic when I feel like holding another revolution.
I generate my next Great Prophet with Saint Francis. I've generated a lot of Great Prophets this game, but I'm holding onto them since I don't need them for Shrines yet. I only founded two religions so far this game.
I get news of another rebellion. The Byzantines are breaking off from the Hittites. The scoreboard shows that the Hittites took a substantial score hit, so they probably lost a couple cities to the rebellion.
Divine Right comes next, and it's a lot more central to the tech tree than it was in BTS. You can see from the icons that it's required for Liberalism, among other technologies. It also still unlocks the Spiral Minaret and Versailles wonders.
The Great Prophet parade continues with Atisha. This is actually a free Prophet from Divine Right, but it uses a different XML tag so it doesn't show up in the Civilopedia. I just did a quick check of the XML files, and that's also where Saint Francis showed up from Political Philosophy.
I meet another rebel. This time, it's Darius of Ethiopia. He is Ashurbanipal's worst enemy and his one city is Liverpool (from his civilization name), so he's clearly a breakaway from England. And seriously, who is he calling upstart?
Ashurbanipal sells me contact with Alexander for a few gold. Alex is leading the Byzantine rebels. This could be interesting, as Alexander has taken 3 cities from the Hittites.
I research Leadership next. I consider Leadership extremely important because it gives the Garrison building, which is one of the few good early sources for XP for Gunpowder units. The Barracks and the various Wonders I have built up to now mostly give XP for Melee units, but Gunpowder units render them obsolete.
I also generate another free Great General with Leadership. This one is Ahmad I al-Mansur Saadi. I'll need him as the Field Commander of my Fourth Army.
Yet another Great Prophet for me. This is Bartolome de Las Casas. He can sleep with the rest for a while.
With Leadership achieved, I decide to go sweep up a few medieval technologies. First up are Armored Cavalry and Chivalry. Since I don't have access to Horses, mounted units have not been a priority of mine.
There is also another rebel on the scoreboard now. The Holy Roman Kingdom of Ahhiyawa looks like another breakaway from the Hittites. Their leader is Deganawida, nominally an Iroquois leader (Creative/Organized).
Next up are Perspective and Cartography. Perspective is required for Sistine Chapel. Cartography allows Map Trading.
Hammurabi wants Code of Laws for a pittance, but it's so far back I have no qualms about selling it to him. Hammurabi's Spanish empire is an evolved barbarian city, so it doesn't start with the same technology base that the breakaway rebel civilizations start with.
I think I was actually able to build the Spiral Minaret without sacrificing slaves. As if I didn't have enough money coming in, the Minaret is good for a nice large chunk of change from all the Zoroastrian buildings I've built. This screenshot is from a replay, so it's earlier than I actually built it. This was built in Andahuaylas as its first Great Wonder.
I also get Fire Brigades as a technology. There are several fire-fighting technologies in C2C, and newer versions have implemented a flammability rating for your cities that can trigger various fire-related events.
Unlike Code of Laws, Constitution is not so old that I'm willing to give it away. I actually only researched it seven turns before this screenshot. I'm sure he could use my assistance, but that's not something I want to give up.
Martial Arts comes next. This allows me to build Training Dojos and Master's Dojos that grant Martial Arts promotions. Unfortunately, they only work for Melee and Recon units, which are going to be out of date soon now that I have Gunpowder and Matchlock.
The latest rebel to show up on my radar is Churchill of Mali. I'm not sure what the difference is between a breakaway civilization that triggers getting a meeting screen and one that doesn't. Churchill took four cities away from Menelik, so that's a serious chunk out of his score. The Hittites have now lost over half their cities to revolutions, falling from 20 cities to 9.
The Sistine Chapel was still available (in most of my previous games, it was built before I got Perspective), but this time, I'm able to build it through a mass sacrifice of slaves in Chuquiapo. The culture benefit isn't that important, but I just want to deny it to the other civilizations.
The last technology in my sweep is Oil Painting. I want this for Leonardo's Workshop, which grants a free technology. I also notice the Hittites lost another 2 cities to the Siamese Rebels. They are led by Suppiluliuma, the Hittite leader (Expansive/Imperialistic).
The Black Death hits Ica. It's not much of a cost to quarantine the city and stop the plague from spreading. C2C does not yet have a massive plague system in place, although there has been some brainstorming on this topic.
The sweeping up is done, and I set my sights on Rifling. I decide that given the current state of everyone's armies relative to mine, an upgrade to Riflemen should be enough to turn every other civilization into paste. Rifling turns out to be 13 technologies away, and you can get a glimpse of how complicated the C2C tech tree is from this screen shot. Out of 19 visible techs, only 8 are found in regular BTS (Representative Democracy is BTS's Democracy, renamed so as to use the Democracy name for Athenian-style democracy in the Classical Era).
Metallurgy comes first.
Vilcas builds Leonardo's Workshop thanks to a bunch more slaves. While you can't build Isaac Newton's College in a city with Leonardo's Workshop, if you build the College first, you can build the Workshop just fine afterwards.
Leonardo's Workshop grants me a free technology for finishing it. The most expensive technology currently available is Chemistry, and while it's not part of the path to Rifling, it is still necessary for Flintlock, which is required to train Riflemen units, so I grab it.
When I finished the Iroquois War (turn 549, AD 490), I had 8 remaining rivals. At the start of this update (turn 575, AD 750) I had 10. As of now (turn 584, AD 840), I have 15. My largest rivals are tearing themselves to pieces and I don't have to do anything. Just think what will happen if I actually do something...
Next time: Racing towards Rifling.
Spoiler :
I generate my next Great Prophet with Saint Francis. I've generated a lot of Great Prophets this game, but I'm holding onto them since I don't need them for Shrines yet. I only founded two religions so far this game.
Spoiler :
I get news of another rebellion. The Byzantines are breaking off from the Hittites. The scoreboard shows that the Hittites took a substantial score hit, so they probably lost a couple cities to the rebellion.
Spoiler :
Divine Right comes next, and it's a lot more central to the tech tree than it was in BTS. You can see from the icons that it's required for Liberalism, among other technologies. It also still unlocks the Spiral Minaret and Versailles wonders.
Spoiler :
The Great Prophet parade continues with Atisha. This is actually a free Prophet from Divine Right, but it uses a different XML tag so it doesn't show up in the Civilopedia. I just did a quick check of the XML files, and that's also where Saint Francis showed up from Political Philosophy.
Spoiler :
I meet another rebel. This time, it's Darius of Ethiopia. He is Ashurbanipal's worst enemy and his one city is Liverpool (from his civilization name), so he's clearly a breakaway from England. And seriously, who is he calling upstart?
Spoiler :
Ashurbanipal sells me contact with Alexander for a few gold. Alex is leading the Byzantine rebels. This could be interesting, as Alexander has taken 3 cities from the Hittites.
Spoiler :
I research Leadership next. I consider Leadership extremely important because it gives the Garrison building, which is one of the few good early sources for XP for Gunpowder units. The Barracks and the various Wonders I have built up to now mostly give XP for Melee units, but Gunpowder units render them obsolete.
Spoiler :
I also generate another free Great General with Leadership. This one is Ahmad I al-Mansur Saadi. I'll need him as the Field Commander of my Fourth Army.
Spoiler :
Yet another Great Prophet for me. This is Bartolome de Las Casas. He can sleep with the rest for a while.
Spoiler :
With Leadership achieved, I decide to go sweep up a few medieval technologies. First up are Armored Cavalry and Chivalry. Since I don't have access to Horses, mounted units have not been a priority of mine.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
There is also another rebel on the scoreboard now. The Holy Roman Kingdom of Ahhiyawa looks like another breakaway from the Hittites. Their leader is Deganawida, nominally an Iroquois leader (Creative/Organized).
Next up are Perspective and Cartography. Perspective is required for Sistine Chapel. Cartography allows Map Trading.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Hammurabi wants Code of Laws for a pittance, but it's so far back I have no qualms about selling it to him. Hammurabi's Spanish empire is an evolved barbarian city, so it doesn't start with the same technology base that the breakaway rebel civilizations start with.
Spoiler :
I think I was actually able to build the Spiral Minaret without sacrificing slaves. As if I didn't have enough money coming in, the Minaret is good for a nice large chunk of change from all the Zoroastrian buildings I've built. This screenshot is from a replay, so it's earlier than I actually built it. This was built in Andahuaylas as its first Great Wonder.
Spoiler :
I also get Fire Brigades as a technology. There are several fire-fighting technologies in C2C, and newer versions have implemented a flammability rating for your cities that can trigger various fire-related events.
Spoiler :
Unlike Code of Laws, Constitution is not so old that I'm willing to give it away. I actually only researched it seven turns before this screenshot. I'm sure he could use my assistance, but that's not something I want to give up.
Spoiler :
Martial Arts comes next. This allows me to build Training Dojos and Master's Dojos that grant Martial Arts promotions. Unfortunately, they only work for Melee and Recon units, which are going to be out of date soon now that I have Gunpowder and Matchlock.
Spoiler :
The latest rebel to show up on my radar is Churchill of Mali. I'm not sure what the difference is between a breakaway civilization that triggers getting a meeting screen and one that doesn't. Churchill took four cities away from Menelik, so that's a serious chunk out of his score. The Hittites have now lost over half their cities to revolutions, falling from 20 cities to 9.
Spoiler :
The Sistine Chapel was still available (in most of my previous games, it was built before I got Perspective), but this time, I'm able to build it through a mass sacrifice of slaves in Chuquiapo. The culture benefit isn't that important, but I just want to deny it to the other civilizations.
Spoiler :
The last technology in my sweep is Oil Painting. I want this for Leonardo's Workshop, which grants a free technology. I also notice the Hittites lost another 2 cities to the Siamese Rebels. They are led by Suppiluliuma, the Hittite leader (Expansive/Imperialistic).
Spoiler :
The Black Death hits Ica. It's not much of a cost to quarantine the city and stop the plague from spreading. C2C does not yet have a massive plague system in place, although there has been some brainstorming on this topic.
Spoiler :
The sweeping up is done, and I set my sights on Rifling. I decide that given the current state of everyone's armies relative to mine, an upgrade to Riflemen should be enough to turn every other civilization into paste. Rifling turns out to be 13 technologies away, and you can get a glimpse of how complicated the C2C tech tree is from this screen shot. Out of 19 visible techs, only 8 are found in regular BTS (Representative Democracy is BTS's Democracy, renamed so as to use the Democracy name for Athenian-style democracy in the Classical Era).
Spoiler :
Metallurgy comes first.
Spoiler :
Vilcas builds Leonardo's Workshop thanks to a bunch more slaves. While you can't build Isaac Newton's College in a city with Leonardo's Workshop, if you build the College first, you can build the Workshop just fine afterwards.
Spoiler :
Leonardo's Workshop grants me a free technology for finishing it. The most expensive technology currently available is Chemistry, and while it's not part of the path to Rifling, it is still necessary for Flintlock, which is required to train Riflemen units, so I grab it.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
When I finished the Iroquois War (turn 549, AD 490), I had 8 remaining rivals. At the start of this update (turn 575, AD 750) I had 10. As of now (turn 584, AD 840), I have 15. My largest rivals are tearing themselves to pieces and I don't have to do anything. Just think what will happen if I actually do something...
Next time: Racing towards Rifling.
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
Enjoying the story as ever 
What do you think about the diaspora of cultures in C2C? According to the spread sheet i have there are 5 African, 9 Asian, 13 European, 9 middle eastern, 4 Oceanian and 26 American. There is American-centrism and then there is having 40% of the cultures being American.
What do you think about the diaspora of cultures in C2C? According to the spread sheet i have there are 5 African, 9 Asian, 13 European, 9 middle eastern, 4 Oceanian and 26 American. There is American-centrism and then there is having 40% of the cultures being American.
Enjoying the story as ever
What do you think about the diaspora of cultures in C2C? According to the spread sheet i have there are 5 African, 9 Asian, 13 European, 9 middle eastern, 4 Oceanian and 26 American. There is American-centrism and then there is having 40% of the cultures being American.
I think it's a work in progress. There are a lot of other cultures out there that are in the planning stage. C2C adds so much that ideas don't get as fleshed out as I believe they should. For example, the Heroes from the World of Legends mod were added in version 18 of this mod, but there are some places where the mechanics don't quite match up (especially with the Heroes' combat strength and being able to build them in the proper era). I think v20 should have more cultures.
Also, Culture (American) is having to stand in for indigenous North American, Central American, and South American, plus former American colonies, so it has to do a lot more work.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Yes, update!
Might sound a bit freaky, but what's up with the enormous jumps in culture between 740 AD and 750 AD ; and the doubling between 810 AD and 820 AD? I incidentally noticed this.
26 Cultures? What are you talking about? I thought every civilization had it's own culture, and there are definitely not 26 American civilizations.
The amount of wonders sped up by American culture is ridiculously high, though.
Might sound a bit freaky, but what's up with the enormous jumps in culture between 740 AD and 750 AD ; and the doubling between 810 AD and 820 AD? I incidentally noticed this.
26 Cultures? What are you talking about? I thought every civilization had it's own culture, and there are definitely not 26 American civilizations.
The amount of wonders sped up by American culture is ridiculously high, though.
MoreEpicThanYou
The most Epic.
The Hittites remind me of the Roman Empire, and all of the rebels remind me of Spain, France, England, and all the other European countries. The question is which one of those rebels will become an equivalent to the (IRL) Byzantine Empire.
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