MoreEpicThanYou
The most Epic.
So, when does Gilgamesh get 
'd?
'd?
[C2C] Ramkhamhaeng of the Incas
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
Yoshiegg737
Jungo Jungo
Well...there ARE a lot of buildings
My capital is like that too, but after a while, you need Republic for the stability (Republic is the first government that gives a net stability--everything before that is just reducing the instability), and then the no unhappiness bonus goes away.
So, when does Gilgamesh get
As soon as I get a proper army together. I've been contemplating war against him since I finished off Ramesses, but the window for the Dog Soldiers on offense closed. His power rating is fluctuating around 0.6 to 0.8 of mine. Once I get my Catapults, the war will begin.
My last technologies were researched in order to grab certain classical Wonders. My next tech goal is Siege Warfare, in order to conquer Gilgamesh. Siege Warfare requires Iron Working + Chariotry + Ancient Ballistics. I already have Iron Working, and Chariotry doesn't do much for me as I have no Horse resources. So I will put that off until the end and research Ancient Ballistics.
For its part, Ancient Ballistics requires Bronze Working + Construction + Oil Lamps + Ship Building. I have the first two and need the last two. So the first thing I research is Orchards.
The reason for Orchards is that it leads to Fermentation.
Besides allowing me to build Breweries to generate Alcohol resources (bonus happiness!), Fermentation also lets me research Oil Lamps.
Oil Lamps allows the rather interesting Arsonist unit. By itself, the Arsonist is a better city attacker than the Light Swordsmen I can currently build. On the other hand, the Arsonist is classified as a Gunpowder unit, and so it doesn't get the XP bonuses that are accruing to my Melee units. Cuzco could build Combat I + City Raider I Arsonists, but that would have to compete against Combat I + City Raider II Light Swordsmen. Arsonists also don't upgrade until the Renaissance, when they upgrade to Grenadiers.
So Oil Lamps is the third piece. To get the last prerequisite, I have to go all the way back and research Boat Building. Since I've had so much land to colonize up to now, I've completely neglected naval technology, although I did research Trap Fishing when I got all but 1 beaker of it from Carthage, and researched Spearfishing when I needed it for Archery.
I took a screenshot of Gilgamesh's forces in Oporto when I was building up. This is what I'm going to have to take on -- a Bandit Footpad, a Battering Ram, five Deer Riders, a Wardogs, an Axeman, two Tomahawk Throwers, and two Archers. This is why I've been trying to make sure I stay ahead of Gilgamesh in power level.
Boat Building in turn leads to Boat Fishing, and from there we keep getting bigger boats as we learn Sailing and Naval Warfare.
Sailing allows me to build the Shipwright building, which is required for any sailing ship bigger than a Galley. Sometimes it's hard to build these buildings because of the infrastructure requirements. For a Shipwright, you need Wood (from a Lumber Camp), Sails (from a Sail Weaver, which requires Cloth or Leather), and Rope (from a Rope Weaver's Hut, which requires Leather or a Weaver's Hut). Fortunately, I have Wood and Leather, which lets me work up the chain to the Shipwright.
I take a brief digression from playing with boats to research Ancestor Worship, which leads to Stargazing.
A historical popup says that I am seventh in wealth despite having over 3000 gold in my treasury. I suspect this is the result of the AI civs building lots of crime buildings.
I return to the naval technology chain with Seafaring, followed by Ship Building.
I also generate Jean Baptiste Lamarck as my first Great Scientist. This is the first Great Person I have generated with Great Person Points. I have gone through six Great Prophets by researching technologies that spawn religions (Shamanism, Sacrifice Cult, Dualism, Monotheism, Meditation, and Polytheism) and one Great General by combat XP, but this is the first point-generated Great Person.
We are now set to research Ancient Ballistics, which will be in the next update.
For its part, Ancient Ballistics requires Bronze Working + Construction + Oil Lamps + Ship Building. I have the first two and need the last two. So the first thing I research is Orchards.
Spoiler :
The reason for Orchards is that it leads to Fermentation.
Spoiler :
Besides allowing me to build Breweries to generate Alcohol resources (bonus happiness!), Fermentation also lets me research Oil Lamps.
Spoiler :
Oil Lamps allows the rather interesting Arsonist unit. By itself, the Arsonist is a better city attacker than the Light Swordsmen I can currently build. On the other hand, the Arsonist is classified as a Gunpowder unit, and so it doesn't get the XP bonuses that are accruing to my Melee units. Cuzco could build Combat I + City Raider I Arsonists, but that would have to compete against Combat I + City Raider II Light Swordsmen. Arsonists also don't upgrade until the Renaissance, when they upgrade to Grenadiers.
Spoiler :
So Oil Lamps is the third piece. To get the last prerequisite, I have to go all the way back and research Boat Building. Since I've had so much land to colonize up to now, I've completely neglected naval technology, although I did research Trap Fishing when I got all but 1 beaker of it from Carthage, and researched Spearfishing when I needed it for Archery.
Spoiler :
I took a screenshot of Gilgamesh's forces in Oporto when I was building up. This is what I'm going to have to take on -- a Bandit Footpad, a Battering Ram, five Deer Riders, a Wardogs, an Axeman, two Tomahawk Throwers, and two Archers. This is why I've been trying to make sure I stay ahead of Gilgamesh in power level.
Spoiler :
Boat Building in turn leads to Boat Fishing, and from there we keep getting bigger boats as we learn Sailing and Naval Warfare.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Sailing allows me to build the Shipwright building, which is required for any sailing ship bigger than a Galley. Sometimes it's hard to build these buildings because of the infrastructure requirements. For a Shipwright, you need Wood (from a Lumber Camp), Sails (from a Sail Weaver, which requires Cloth or Leather), and Rope (from a Rope Weaver's Hut, which requires Leather or a Weaver's Hut). Fortunately, I have Wood and Leather, which lets me work up the chain to the Shipwright.
Spoiler :
I take a brief digression from playing with boats to research Ancestor Worship, which leads to Stargazing.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
A historical popup says that I am seventh in wealth despite having over 3000 gold in my treasury. I suspect this is the result of the AI civs building lots of crime buildings.
Spoiler :
I return to the naval technology chain with Seafaring, followed by Ship Building.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I also generate Jean Baptiste Lamarck as my first Great Scientist. This is the first Great Person I have generated with Great Person Points. I have gone through six Great Prophets by researching technologies that spawn religions (Shamanism, Sacrifice Cult, Dualism, Monotheism, Meditation, and Polytheism) and one Great General by combat XP, but this is the first point-generated Great Person.
Spoiler :
We are now set to research Ancient Ballistics, which will be in the next update.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Nice update! I love how you explain the C2C tech tree.
mayor
Heart & Mind
that's one nice army Gilgamesh has got there 
anyway I noticed a sole cultureplot belonging to you in the screenshot before the last, where did that came from?
ans is it save to assume you let the GS rest for know?
anyway I noticed a sole cultureplot belonging to you in the screenshot before the last, where did that came from?
ans is it save to assume you let the GS rest for know?
that's one nice army Gilgamesh has got there
anyway I noticed a sole cultureplot belonging to you in the screenshot before the last, where did that came from?
ans is it save to assume you let the GS rest for know?
The culture plot comes from Influence Driven War. Winning a battle on a square gives you influence over that square. This square happens to be adjacent to the ruins of Hadrumentum, which I burned in the war with Carthage. When the entire Carthaginian civilization was destroyed, I was the only one left with influence over that square, so it's sticking out as mine.
I do let my GS rest for now. I am not that good with using Great People, since I usually want to hold them back for later use.
While I've been working on research, I've also been building Literature's two main world wonders the hard way. I used my last slaves from the Carthaginian and Viking wars on the Flavian Amphitheatre, so the only ones I can use are ones I snag from Gilgamesh's cross-border excursions.
I build the Great Library in Vilcas, which I have chosen as my first science city. Since there are a lot of science Wonders and you are limited to 5 Great Wonders per city, it's a good idea to have two science cities.
More importantly, I build the Piazza San Marco in Machu Picchu. This provides +6 gold (before any other bonuses) and a free Market in every city, for +3 gold and +15% gold per city. This shifts my gold production into overdrive. The Piazza has to be one of my favorite wonders, and the video is pretty cool too. (This was another screenshot I went back for--it actually finished one turn after the Great Library.)
I'm not exactly sure why Gilgamesh thinks sending Hidden Nationality units into my territory is a good thing, although he could take out a Worker too close to the border. Sending a Warlord Chief in this way is just asking for it to be surrounded and assassinated.
Finally, I research Ancient Ballistics. This lets me build Light Crossbowmen, which make better city defenders than the Archers and Tomahawk Throwers I've been using so far.
I dash through Chariotry because it's required for Siege Warfare. As I said, I don't have Horses, so I can't really use the technology.
Once I have Chariotry, I can finally research Siege Warfare. Siege Warfare gives me Pikemen, which I plan to use as guard units for my army against Gilgamesh's Bison Riders and Deer Riders, and Catapults, which are the first siege units that can range bombard.
Range bombardment is a nice feature in C2C. Range bombardment is supposed to come in two flavors: archer bombard and siege bombard. Archer bombard is currently non-functional. Siege bombard does work, though. Siege bombard allows catapults and later siege units to deal collateral damage without directly attacking. The ranged bombard deals collateral damage to the enemy stack without damaging either the lead defending unit or your siege weapon. So once a city's defenses are down, the catapults can bombard the defensive units and weaken them for future melee attacks without having to sacrifice any of them.
Before I can build Catapults, I have to build Siege Weapon Workshops. These are required for the classical and medieval siege engines. I also discover that my Catapults will be 3 XP at most, 1 from Barracks and 2 from the Caste civic. This means that Machu Picchu and Ollantaytambo can build the Catapults while Cuzco and Tiwaniku train the melee units.
A hint for the AI: If Warlord Chiefs (strength 10) didn't fare all that well in excursions into my territory, how well will Bandit Footpads (strength 6) do?
The Heresy event costs me a little unhappiness in my cities. Normally, the priests could be bought off by sacrificing a few beakers, but I don't have any beakers to spend right now.
Building Siege Weapon Workshops and Catapults gives me enough time to research Smithing technology. Smithing is fairly expensive, but worth it.
I generate Lee Jong-Wook as my first Great Engineer in Cuzco. Cuzco does have the National Epic to try and generate more Great Engineers, as I regard them as the most valuable Great Person.
The next technology I research is Currency.
Also, my treasury dropped by a thousand gold between getting my Engineer and researching Currency. Care to guess what I spent it on?
Answer in the next update.
I build the Great Library in Vilcas, which I have chosen as my first science city. Since there are a lot of science Wonders and you are limited to 5 Great Wonders per city, it's a good idea to have two science cities.
Spoiler :
More importantly, I build the Piazza San Marco in Machu Picchu. This provides +6 gold (before any other bonuses) and a free Market in every city, for +3 gold and +15% gold per city. This shifts my gold production into overdrive. The Piazza has to be one of my favorite wonders, and the video is pretty cool too. (This was another screenshot I went back for--it actually finished one turn after the Great Library.)
Spoiler :
I'm not exactly sure why Gilgamesh thinks sending Hidden Nationality units into my territory is a good thing, although he could take out a Worker too close to the border. Sending a Warlord Chief in this way is just asking for it to be surrounded and assassinated.
Spoiler :
Finally, I research Ancient Ballistics. This lets me build Light Crossbowmen, which make better city defenders than the Archers and Tomahawk Throwers I've been using so far.
Spoiler :
I dash through Chariotry because it's required for Siege Warfare. As I said, I don't have Horses, so I can't really use the technology.
Spoiler :
Once I have Chariotry, I can finally research Siege Warfare. Siege Warfare gives me Pikemen, which I plan to use as guard units for my army against Gilgamesh's Bison Riders and Deer Riders, and Catapults, which are the first siege units that can range bombard.
Range bombardment is a nice feature in C2C. Range bombardment is supposed to come in two flavors: archer bombard and siege bombard. Archer bombard is currently non-functional. Siege bombard does work, though. Siege bombard allows catapults and later siege units to deal collateral damage without directly attacking. The ranged bombard deals collateral damage to the enemy stack without damaging either the lead defending unit or your siege weapon. So once a city's defenses are down, the catapults can bombard the defensive units and weaken them for future melee attacks without having to sacrifice any of them.
Spoiler :
Before I can build Catapults, I have to build Siege Weapon Workshops. These are required for the classical and medieval siege engines. I also discover that my Catapults will be 3 XP at most, 1 from Barracks and 2 from the Caste civic. This means that Machu Picchu and Ollantaytambo can build the Catapults while Cuzco and Tiwaniku train the melee units.
A hint for the AI: If Warlord Chiefs (strength 10) didn't fare all that well in excursions into my territory, how well will Bandit Footpads (strength 6) do?
Spoiler :
The Heresy event costs me a little unhappiness in my cities. Normally, the priests could be bought off by sacrificing a few beakers, but I don't have any beakers to spend right now.
Spoiler :
Building Siege Weapon Workshops and Catapults gives me enough time to research Smithing technology. Smithing is fairly expensive, but worth it.
Spoiler :
I generate Lee Jong-Wook as my first Great Engineer in Cuzco. Cuzco does have the National Epic to try and generate more Great Engineers, as I regard them as the most valuable Great Person.
Spoiler :
The next technology I research is Currency.
Spoiler :
Also, my treasury dropped by a thousand gold between getting my Engineer and researching Currency. Care to guess what I spent it on?
Answer in the next update.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Great update, really enjoying this.
MoreEpicThanYou
The most Epic.
I agree with Jwitti. Keep the updates coming!
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
The Piazza San Marco seem a bit odd for the era.
Yes, the technology prerequisites for the Piazza are only Code of Laws and Literature. This was why I used a Great Prophet to lightbulb Code of Laws even when I had free Courthouses from the Hammurabi Stele of Laws. Of course, the Assassins from Code of Laws didn't hurt either.
The real Piazza dates from the 9th century (and major components from the 12th century), so it probably belongs more to the Early Middle Ages than the Classical Era where it's possible to build it now. I think it probably needs a technology like Theology or Guilds to push it into its proper era.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Oh, sorry. I was a bit confused last night. I thought he was agreeing with the fact the updates should keep coming.
I think you spend your money on rushbuying a wonder! Lol.
I think that Theology should be the pre-requisite due to La Piazza di San Marco being named after a Christian saint.
Well, St. Mark's Basilica is a separate wonder, and it specifically requires not only Theology but Christianity as a state religion and in the city. I think the Piazza is more tied to the rise and influence of the Doges, and thus should probably require Guilds or something in that area. Banking may be too late technologically.
It costs 70 gold to upgrade one Light Swordsman to Swordsman. It costs 980 gold to upgrade 14 of them.
14 Swordsmen, plus a Warlord Chief, an Arsonist, 6 Catapults, 2 Pikemen, a Dog Soldier, a Healer, and a Field Commander Great General form my First Army that storms across the Portuguese border.
Gilgamesh's response is to send a stack of Bison Riders and Deer Riders into Inca territory to get surrounded and destroyed. (Seriously. I replayed this section twice to get particular screenshots. Gilgamesh made the same move every time.) Oh well, mine is not to reason why with AIs. Mine is but to take advantage of everything they offer.
The rear-echelon Dog Soldiers tear into the Bison and Deer Riders and generate my second Great General. He will serve as the centerpiece of a second army.
The First Army burns Oporto, generating a promotion for my Field Commander and a nice quantity of slave units.
The Field Commanders option allows you to turn Great Generals into Field Commanders. Field Commanders gain experience when units in their stack win battles, and have access to a separate set of promotions that boosts any unit in their square. Shi Lang has generated enough XP to gain his first promotion: Morale I, which grants +5% Strength to any unit in his square.
There is no faster way to generate a revolution than losing a war. (WINNING a war comes second, but only if you're occupying enemy cities.) Arabia splinters off from Portugal and takes three of Gilgamesh's cities. I agree to peace with Washington to serve as a barrier between me and Gilgamesh's western empire. While I can't see all of Arabia's territory, I am fairly confident that Washington is sealing off the entire western flank, funneling everything through the bottleneck near Coimbra in the north. Open Borders agreements are much rarer in C2C than in regular Civ 4, and I don't think Gilgamesh wants an additional enemy.
I use the slaves from Oporto to build Plato's Academy in Vilcas, and use my Great Scientist to build an Academy alongside it.
The First Army proceeds northward from the ruins of Oporto to destroy the city of Lagos. Their goal will be to march north and east, take Guimaraes and then march on Lisbon.
The Second Army is forming up northwest of Machu Picchu. They will march north to take Coimbra and chew up Gilgamesh's western cities.
On the technology front, I research City Planning and then set my sights on Feudalism. I want Feudalism for two reasons: Longbowmen, and Archery Ranges that will guarantee City Garrison II Longbowmen and Crossbowmen. Like going back to Orchards for Siege Warfare, the road to Feudalism starts with... Poultry Domestication.
Poultry Domestication leads to Falconry.
Falconry is required for Aristocracy.
Vassalage is next, the last technology before Feudalism.
Researching Feudalism moves me into the Medieval era.
Next time: A blast of research.
Spoiler :
14 Swordsmen, plus a Warlord Chief, an Arsonist, 6 Catapults, 2 Pikemen, a Dog Soldier, a Healer, and a Field Commander Great General form my First Army that storms across the Portuguese border.
Gilgamesh's response is to send a stack of Bison Riders and Deer Riders into Inca territory to get surrounded and destroyed. (Seriously. I replayed this section twice to get particular screenshots. Gilgamesh made the same move every time.) Oh well, mine is not to reason why with AIs. Mine is but to take advantage of everything they offer.
Spoiler :
The rear-echelon Dog Soldiers tear into the Bison and Deer Riders and generate my second Great General. He will serve as the centerpiece of a second army.
Spoiler :
The First Army burns Oporto, generating a promotion for my Field Commander and a nice quantity of slave units.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
The Field Commanders option allows you to turn Great Generals into Field Commanders. Field Commanders gain experience when units in their stack win battles, and have access to a separate set of promotions that boosts any unit in their square. Shi Lang has generated enough XP to gain his first promotion: Morale I, which grants +5% Strength to any unit in his square.
There is no faster way to generate a revolution than losing a war. (WINNING a war comes second, but only if you're occupying enemy cities.) Arabia splinters off from Portugal and takes three of Gilgamesh's cities. I agree to peace with Washington to serve as a barrier between me and Gilgamesh's western empire. While I can't see all of Arabia's territory, I am fairly confident that Washington is sealing off the entire western flank, funneling everything through the bottleneck near Coimbra in the north. Open Borders agreements are much rarer in C2C than in regular Civ 4, and I don't think Gilgamesh wants an additional enemy.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I use the slaves from Oporto to build Plato's Academy in Vilcas, and use my Great Scientist to build an Academy alongside it.
Spoiler :
The First Army proceeds northward from the ruins of Oporto to destroy the city of Lagos. Their goal will be to march north and east, take Guimaraes and then march on Lisbon.
Spoiler :
The Second Army is forming up northwest of Machu Picchu. They will march north to take Coimbra and chew up Gilgamesh's western cities.
Spoiler :
On the technology front, I research City Planning and then set my sights on Feudalism. I want Feudalism for two reasons: Longbowmen, and Archery Ranges that will guarantee City Garrison II Longbowmen and Crossbowmen. Like going back to Orchards for Siege Warfare, the road to Feudalism starts with... Poultry Domestication.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Poultry Domestication leads to Falconry.
Spoiler :
Falconry is required for Aristocracy.
Spoiler :
Vassalage is next, the last technology before Feudalism.
Spoiler :
Researching Feudalism moves me into the Medieval era.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Next time: A blast of research.
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