C3C PBEM : Rise of Rome - scenario-based PBEM

Last turn sent to Persia. Apollonia and Lowell captured back and endless Persian HCs were impaled on Macedonian spears. A spectacular bloodshed indeed. But it won't be possible if we allow abandoning cities. IMO, it is a very good idea to not abandon the cities in this scenario, much more playability.
 
Yeap I completely agree with Akots. The rule of not abandoning/razing cities definetely added some spice to the game where the main attacking force are fast units and the road system is very developed.

Meanwhile Persian Reconqiusta reached it apogee.

Oh and one more thing: NEVER EVER join enemy workers to your cities :lol: Wait for screenies to know what I mean :)
 
Here are the two funny Persian screenies :)
 

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I agree on the no-raze or at least a raze limit, makes things more dynamic..

Nothing interesting happened here this turn, for some reason it appears the Roman force in the West went back to the boats rather than try to make a run towards my cities.. go figure?

So instead I present to you a picture of the most glorious metropolis in the known world :D
 

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Congrats to RJ for a good victory !
Congrats to Random Fan as well who did well in his "recovery" of the Persian Empire.
Congrats to a fine team ! For 4 of us have been here since April 18 !
 
I guess you guys will have a lot more of free time now ! :p
Playing a turn took me 5 minutes at most but I don't want to imagine ow much time RJ spent on his !
And I guess the end was pretty boring : pumping out units ! Albeit Carthage's landing close to Rome was a nice move !!!
 
It took me about 15-20-25 minutes to browse through cities and move stuff around. But I'm a rather fast player. Of course, when military operations were involved, it was much longer, up to an hour.

And this leaves my current schedule down to 13 games. Which is actually more than enough.
 
Woot! Well. I personally think everyone was a winner on this one. Everyone played well and probably learned a lot.
A special thanks to Random Fan for coming in and making Akots "honest" in trying to dismantle the Persian Empire. :lol:
Ironduck played brilliantly with the cards he was dealt.
Akots made a valiant effort to grab a share of the victory with Pop and Territory.
Loulong hung in there with a 3'rd world nation, so to speak. ;)

I don't know how much I remember going back to April, But I'll try.
I knew I wanted the Temple of Artemis, because that is simply killer in this scenario in terms of getting the necessary territory under control. So Rome was set to that as a priority. Rome is a powerhouse shield city as long as the tiles can be developed quickly enough. Then I remember a pretty close relationship with Macedonia from the tech sharing perspective, where I researched the lower part of the tech tree, and eventually to Republic.

Sicily was crucial. (Where Hannibal met his demise.) Ceasar was marched south beginning on turn 0 and met with ships and barely got there in time to salvage a victory and the island, and 'twas a near thing. Afterwards, Sardinia and Corsica were fairly easy. I know everyone blames me for not attacking Carthage then, but truth to tell, I had almost no military left for an invasion. With 2 core cities locked on Wonders and the rest frantically building Citizens and Workers, I was in total expansion mode and was making minimal military. I knew they were going to get War Elephants very soon anyway and any attempt but an overwhelming invasion would be doomed.

So I picked on the poor Celts and later the Goths for a while. That was quite successful as I got some leaders (even used up one to build the Forbidden Palace in a town above the Alps.) I probably over-exapanded then, as at one point I'm sure Carthage had a greater Military then me. When they reinvaded Sicily and Sardinia, they massively outnumbered all my forces in all of Italy combined...they could have gone for the victory right then.

I made my biggest mistake then. I had the choice of getting the Lighthouse or Hadrian's Wall as a wonder, and stupidly chose Hadrian's. The Lighthouse would have given my ships 4 movement, equaling Carthages. Instead he got it and 5 movement to my 3, ensuring him Naval superiority and lightning raid ability which he used so effectively. If I had that wonder, I would have built more ships earlier and would have had a greater intercepting force.
Then, of course, came the massive raids into my core :rolleyes: Hopefully, that will never happen again!
Enough for now... I'll think of more stuff later. I looked at Carthage's screenie up above --- and I have to wonder... Just how many friggin' luxes are my so-called friends (the Greeks) giving him???!!!!!
 
Wow, congrats guys!

It was a long game, but much fun to read. :)
 
Great game guys :goodjob: much fun reading and lurking :scan: :cool: .
Excellent play by excellent players! :hatsoff:
 
It was interesting to read RJ's account :D

For Carthage the game was divided into quite distinctive eras and epochs. First, almost all our forces were thrown into wiping the Romans out of Sicily with reckless abandon, as we was hoping they simply wouldn't have time to ship enough troops there and Sicily would be key for invasions both ways. Since the elephants hadn't arrived yet Hannibal was set to reign over an army of Numidians, which he was none too pleased with. Meeting Caesar in a surprise of historic proportions (a couple of hundred years too early? :mischief: ) he was defeated and Sicily lost.

This began the second era of rebuilding the forces in anticipation of the Roman invasion that almost had to come. So forces were built and built and built and the Carthaginian empire got reasonably productive, and at one point while the Romans were in anarchy our millitaries were equal according to our advisor. Then the Romans stormed ahead again and stayed 'strong' compared to us the rest of the game.

During the brief window of being equal with the Romans we decided to launch a new attack on Sicily, and as the Romans fled we seized the momentum to take Sardinia as well, successfully. First we blocked the islands with millitary, but later we switched to a worker blockade which later proved fatal since we did not realize workers can no longer block millitary invasions.

As the Romans again grew stronger millitarily we pledged for help from the other countries time and again, but only the Persians, who under two different rulers had been close allies were helpful in terms of tech trading. Unfortunately they had too many problems of their own to help with anything else. So the Romans began launching attacks through Spain. At first they underestimated us and it wasn't until the 4th strike through with settlers that they cleaved our Spanish territory in two. At this point our plan had been to quickly ship our troops across the mediterranean through Sardinia and onto Rome while their armies were otherwise engaged. Unfortunately just prior to this the Romans had walked into Sardinia meeting no resistance due to the worker 'blockade' and such we could not sail through undetected. This caused quite a delay in our attack plans, but eventually we got our forces through, landed next to Rome, and watched in horror as the Romans set fire to their own capital!

Most of our fleet and armies survived the invasion and quickly left the Italian mainland since we had lost precious time getting our invasion ready and feared large Roman armies would catch up and trap our forces. At this point we had established good communications with the Macedon and Egyptians, and Macedon had begun contributing a bit to our economy so as to hurry some units. They also agreed to hide our forces in a surprise re-strike where we sailed around the Italian boot and up the Adriatic to take the other Roman city with precious wonders (Padova?). We expected this would completely take the Romans by surprise since they had just witnessed us flee, and we almost made it but got spotted on the final turn by a single galley. Still, our landing was successfull and the very same troops that caused the Romans to abandon Rome had them abandon their other major powerhouse. Upon this, the cultural boundaries had contracted and there was room for our cavalry to retake the rebuilt city of Rome, healing our troops. Meanwhile our fleet was in a gambit to get back down the Adriatic, but most got destroyed - we had anticipated this and therefore did not put the armies back in the fleet, rather let them stay on the mainland and see what the Romans would throw at us. In retrospect we should have asked the Macedon to let our armies pass through their territory, but somehow we never thought of that. We also knew it was only a matter of time until the Romans would retake Rome, but it would at least keep them busy for a while, allowing us to rebuild some forces for a likely counter attack towards Carthage.

The counter attack was delayed, but eventually came across the straight of Gibraltar. At this point our Macedon and Egyptian allies realized that the only way to keep the Romans from taking all of Carthage was to aid us massively, possibly they were also impressed by our raids and saw it a worthy cause to hand over their gold? Regardless, in the last third of the game first Macedon and then Egypt contributed substantially to the Carthaginian economy, allowing us to rebuild our forces relatively quickly and hold off the Romans from pushing through Africa. For some reason they never seemed too interested in trying it with too much vigor, possibly they were more concerned with securing their coastline for yet another raid and therefore kept most of their forces at home. We did have several skirmishes, but little territory was gained for Rome. I estimate that Egypt and Macedon contributed to half the Carthaginian economy in the last third of the game, allowing us a significantly larger troop output. Further, Egypt provided us with the remaining three techs for free.

In retrospect, if we had gotten help from Macedon from the beginning in terms of tech research to reach Republic and then gold to hurry units we would have been more successful with holding off the Romans and possible keeping the battle on their territory. We would not have been able to keep them from spreading their empire to the north, however, and that's where the game was won.

It may have seemed odd that we were not more aggressive with the Romans earlier, but we truly had very little millitary power and with the Romans being constantly 'strong' in comparison and obviously outproducing us three fold or more, and also knowing that Macedon would not help with attacking from the east, any substantial counterattack would almost surely wipe out Carthage. We fully expected this to be the case after our first and second strike against the Roman heartland since almost our entire millitary was tied up and subsequently destroyed. The Romans never did attack the city of Carthago, and its citizens could multiply like bunnies without a worry in the world :D

Congrats to RJ and thanks all for a fun game! :D
 
Well, very intriguing stories by Roman and Carthaginian scribers. But unfortunately, a few delicate ethical issues have been omitted as well. We'll discuss them later.

With Macedon, it was straight forward hammering through Acubed and Rocinante, two prominent Persian kings. Campaigns were essentially met with symbolical resistance though Alexander the Great with his infamous hoplites has been ambushed and killed by Darius who has been killed next turn as well. At the end of reign by Rocinante, when Macedonian troops were besieging Antioch, Egypt also declared to Persia. This has greatly upset the Persian ruler and he committed suicide. That is when Random fan came to Persepolis and claimed the Persian throne.

Through the initial stages of the game, it was decided that technical cooperation with Rome will greatly benefit the Macedonian development. Carthage was not researching much apparently and mostly cooperating with Persia. Also, a deal with Rome has been made so that our two great countries cannot wage a war between each other until Carthage and Persia are alive. Once one of these powers are eliminated, then Rome and Macedon would be able to wage a war against each other after a grace period. The cooperation was very fruitful and resulted in discoveries of all essential techs in a very short time and both countries revolted to Republic as soon as it became available. Philosophy helped greatly with it. The cooperation extended to spying over Carthage by Macedon and over Persia by Rome to help each other with war efforts.

Rome then went to the rexing mode by hammering onto AI and settling aggressively a bit too close to Macedonian borders which was noted as well as a relatively non-friendly act. This coincided with Random fan rising to Persian throne. Random fan has been granted a grace period of 5 turns and then another 5 turns to make him familiar with the game which was proved to be a bad mistake. The attacks should have been continued since apparently during these turns, Persia was able to build a formidable fortress and start cranking heavy cavalry like mad. Despite clear military superiority and some local cultural advantage, Macedonian forces were unable to penetrate that fortress till the end of the game. However, Persia was essentially cornered and any attempt to get out would have been apparently suicidal. They were even unable to trade!

So, Macedonia decided to expand a bit and focus on improvements to enable even a bigger army. But still, even with over 300 heavy cavalry and 80 or so hoplites making about 1200 gold per turn was not enough to crack the Persian defenses. Egypt under the rule of Loulong has been proven to be a good neighbor but had pathetic military and was unable to advance and help with Persian campaign. However, Macedon received an important luxury resource from them in exchange for iron resource.

During this time, war between Rome and Carthage has become really very gory and politicians in Athens were afraid that Rome will be able to overcome the weaker adversary. Since most of Macedonian army was focused on Persian border, a possibility of war with Rome was considered to be very unpleasant. Hence, the help to Carthage has been dispatched in the form of techs (through Egypt, since agreement with Rome prohibited Macedon to trade techs directly to Carthage) and gold (total figures I don't remember, something around 4000 or so, no big deal). Here comes the ethical issue. Rome asked sincerely to investigate a few cities in Iberia and Carthage asked assistance in investigating a few cities in the Roman core including Rome and surroundings as well as for safe passage of their fleet over Macedonian waters. Both requests were granted. Total score of investigated cities were about 15-15 (Rome-Carthage). Macedon was not informed on what was the impact of these investigations on the actual campaign results and did not ask about it. But apparently, this allowed Rome to capture Utica and defeat Carthaginian forces in Iberia finally. Also it enable successful raid of Carthaginian fleet to force Romans to abandon their capital. Well, overall, the goal has been accomplished for both of the parties as well as for Macedon. Rome lost overpowered wonders and Carthage was still alive and Rome has no reason to complain about Macedon helping Carthage too much. Also, apparently, Rome traded a few essential techs to Persia which allowed them to revolt to a more advanced government without researching themselves.

This is all help to Carthage except that a single luxury traded to them (furs). All other luxuries were either their native or imported from Egypt. Carthage has been asked for a favor in return to investigate a Persian city but they refused due to ethical considerations. So, Macedon was spying on both Rome and Carthage to an approximately equal extent. Not sure how ethical it was but the benefit for Macedon was indeed minor. So, may be it was not worth it. Anyhow, neither Ironduck nor RJ should be mad at me about this.

In the end, Macedon has higher populations and apparently more happy one. But during the course of the game, two overpowered wonders including ToA and Bacchanalia made Roman score substantially higher. So, Rome gets a well-deserved histographic victory.

A few considerations for future RoR players:

1). Dead-end tech tree and fast research rate of human players makes it possible to build a fortress which is very tough to crack even with great military and power advantages.

2) AI (Goth and Celts) were killed by Rome too easily. Emperor level at least might be substantially more interesting challenge as well as somewhat slower tech rate.

3) Abandoning cities takes lots of fun from this game. Literally. It just kills the game if used excessively.

4) Since Rome is the only city on the river, this actually guarantees they get ToA (and probably Bacchanalia as well) which is way overpowered. To counter this, Carthage better be more aggressive when Hannibal gets to war elephants. At least it was possible to land some troops and may be pillage some tiles or captured and kill workers. But it was a bit frustrating to watch them sit and wait when Roman legions will finish killing the AI and come to Iberia and Sicily.

5) Investigation of cities is very strong weapon in this game. May be, it has to be banned. Just for the sake of not creating ethical problems.

6) Philo gambit is very powerful, it enables to get a free expensive tech (Republic at least). On the other hand, the Great Library is underpowered.

7) Why Macedon is not Militaristic? This is weird. Barracks are way too expensive and I got only 3 leaders with about 60 or 70 elite victories and Heroic Epic. Seafaring trait though was rather useless. It does not even give cheap harbors in this scenario which is apparently a bug.

8) Coastal blockade is not fun at all as well. Though available only later in the game with enough units. May be also worth banning or limiting it.

However, the game is well-balanced and was a huge fun to play! Thanks again for all players!
 
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