Can a Marxist revolutionary get elected president and sort out the economy?

[Joij21]

United Kingdom was Marxist from 1945 to 1979

You mean wartime Keynesian.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: And back to Sri Lanka please.

 

[Samson]

Voting is today. Last time we found out the result the next day, but if one candidate does not get 50% of the vote is goes to second and third choices so could take a while.

Polls look good for the Marxist:

This includes the Sri Lanka Opinion Tracker Survey by the Institute for Health Policy (IHP), which showed the leftist leader at 48 percent, followed by Premadasa at 25 percent. Incumbent Wickremesinghe is third with 20 percent. Namal Rajapaksa trails far behind at 5 percent.

According to the website Numbers.Ik, which compiles statistics about Sri Lanka, Dissanayake is leading with 40 percent, followed by Premadasa at 29 percent and Wickremesinghe at 25 percent. This is based on online data collected between September 9 and September 16.

 

[EvaDK]

'Sorting out' a nations economic challenges, requires high levels of competence, economic literacy and anti-corruption policies.

The exact political philosophy of the government, is less important.

 

[Zardnaar]

'Sorting out' a nations economic challenges, requires high levels of competence, economic literacy and anti-corruption policies.

The exact political philosophy of the government, is less important.

Yup. So he's basically doomed. Beat that populist drum, fail get voted out or resort to other measures.

 

[warpus]

Ah yes, because Marxism has such a spotless record of governance. Are there even any positive historical anecdotes from Marxist states relating to how they were able to successfully turn around or even govern a place? All I seem to remember are horror stories

What Marxist ideals and concepts in particular would help in this case in ways that a free market economy based democracy couldn't?

 

[Crezth]

A Marxist can feed the people and rein in the landlords, but they’d need to go Cuba for best results. The rest is imperialism 101 as old as history.

The first thing you will want to remember, young one, is that the most important part of a free market is capital inflows and export markets. And that if you were Taiwan or South Korea developing markets as directed by responsible free market encouraging entities like the World Bank, you’d still be in the rice fields. That probably counts more than whether you can make some uneducated westerner nod with approval based on their embarrassingly limited conception of political economics.

 

[warpus]

Cuba is the peak example of what wonders are possible with Marxism?

Is that the foundation upon which that whole mess of an argument rests?

 

[Gorbles]

Ah yes, because Marxism has such a spotless record of governance. Are there even any positive historical anecdotes from Marxist states relating to how they were able to successfully turn around or even govern a place? All I seem to remember are horror stories

What Marxist ideals and concepts in particular would help in this case in ways that a free market economy based democracy couldn't?

You seem to be phrasing this like a rhetorical question. Discussion requires being open to the concept in the first place.

 

[GenMarshall]

What Marxist ideals and concepts in particular would help in this case in ways that a free market economy based democracy couldn't?

There really isn't any because Marxism tends to devolve into an authoritarian & totalitarian hellscape.

 

[Zardnaar]

There really isint any because Marxism tends to devolve into an authoritarian & totalitarian hellscape.

I would say the flaw in Marxist theory is exactly that.

You would need close to 100% buy in to even attempt to make it work.

And we've seen the results. Without that buy in you have to resort to force. Once you do that you've failed already.

 

[Gorbles]

It's disappointing how few people are engaging with the OP and instead deciding to fall back on the old circular discussion of agreeing that Marxism as a concept is unworkable, despite the real-world example Samson strove to illustrate the thread with.

 

[warpus]

It's disappointing how few people are engaging with the OP and instead deciding to fall back on the old circular discussion of agreeing that Marxism as a concept is unworkable, despite the real-world example Samson strove to illustrate the thread with.

I asked what Marxist ideals and concepts will help in this case in ways that a free market democratic society couldn't, and have also asked for examples of successful Marxist societies, and have so far not received any good answers.

 

[Gorbles]

I asked what Marxist ideals and concepts will help in this case in ways that a free market democratic society couldn't, and have also asked for examples of successful Marxist societies, and have so far not received any good answers.

Again, you're talking conceptual, instead of practical. This thread is about a particular real-world example which we can discuss instead of indulging in the same repetitive arguments.

 

[GenMarshall]

I would say the flaw in Marxist theory is exactly that.

You would need close to 100% buy in to even attempt to make it work.

And we've seen the results. Without that buy in you have to resort to force. Once you do that you've failed already.

Indeed, It essentially boils down to "all power to the state". Plus, surprise surprise, people like owning their own property and don't like it when the state wants to confiscate your property at gunpoint in the name of "the proletariat". And that's not going into the restrictions in civil liberties, rights, and freedoms to squash so called "resurgent capitalist reactionary bourgeoisie movements".

The USSR and the Eastern Bloc, Red China, Cuba, North Korea, and Vietnam are shining examples of the results of Marxism in various flavors (Marxist-Leninist & Stalinism, Maoism).

 

[Senethro]

Indeed, It essentially boils down to "all power to the state". Plus, surprise surprise, people like owning their own property and don't like it when the state wants to confiscate your property at gunpoint in the name of "the proletariat". And that's not going into the restrictions in civil liberties, rights, and freedoms to squash so called "resurgent capitalist reactionary bourgeoisie movements".

The USSR and the Eastern Bloc, Red China, Cuba, North Korea, and Vietnam are shining examples of the results of Marxism in various flavors (Marxist-Leninist & Stalinism, Maoism).

I mean, the all the "nice" commies really were killed by reactionaries supported AND/OR by overseas capitalists. Its the big filter. All the survivors you're listing won or outlasted their wars.

 

[Crezth]

Cuba is the peak example of what wonders are possible with Marxism?

Is that the foundation upon which that whole mess of an argument rests?

Have you ever been to Cuba? I mean how do you know Cuba sucks and you aren't just generally in a big propaganda bubble-dome designed to extract your money as a captive middle class investing audience, which in real terms actually is getting poorer compared to the global average despite your best efforts? How do you know it sucks? For that matter how do you know anywhere sucks, or is good? And how do you know you really deserve your social rank and status and could reclaim it if something awful happened?

 

[amadeus]

warpus grew up in communist Poland IIRC.

 

[Zardnaar]

Have you ever been to Cuba? I mean how do you know Cuba sucks and you aren't just generally in a big propaganda bubble-dome designed to extract your money as a captive middle class investing audience, which in real terms actually is getting poorer compared to the global average despite your best efforts? How do you know it sucks? For that matter how do you know anywhere sucks, or is good? And how do you know you really deserve your social rank and status and could reclaim it if something awful happened?

Cuba has various problems. It's not a hell hole as such but it's not a place with freedom of expression either.

If this Sri Lankan wins the election hive them a chance as long as they don't mind being voted out.

 

[Crezth]

warpus grew up in communist Poland IIRC.

Is it Cuba?? It doesn’t change anything. He’s still generally encouraged to buy in against other people on the basis of making sound investments. He can think that right until his warmongering masters get his grandkids killed.

Cuba has various problems. It's not a hell hole as such but it's not a place with freedom of expression either.

No such thing generally. Freedom of expression in a bourgeois country is limited by things like libel and slander laws. Even if you’re speaking the truth, you still need to pay for a lawyer.