Can we end factory farming?

[Narz]

Of all the social justice issues in the modern world IMO factory farming is the worst. We're literally torturing billions of creatures so we can eat cheap milk and dairy products. It's one of the number one polluters and a huge waste of grain feeding these miserable beasts.

People are able to get so riled up nowadays and rally behind causes but this one is serious on many levels and you don't see it addressed much except by vegans.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Demand for factory farmed meat has declined recently, though overall demand for meat has not. Consumers are now more willing to spend more on pasture raised/free range meat & eggs. Sustainability and ethical farming/ranching are more important now. Also, as meat analogues improve in flavor and cost, expect them to sweep up the market.

 

[Synobun]

Want to end factory farming? Join New Harvest! They're the leading organization involved in exposing lab-grown meat to the consumer and funding new efforts at perfecting the process. They donate to research projects, hold seminars, and have discussion groups.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Just vote with your wallet and buy free ranged meats
The industrial practices of the South and Republicans states wont change, especially under Republican controls, with de-regulations

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Lab grown meat is around the corner. It will improve food safety, dramatically impact the environment (for good), improve access to high quality, cheap protein and end the suffering of a lot of farmed animals. Start ups are pushing the concept forward and the cost for lab grown burgers has already fallen something like 1000-fold.

So yes, we can end factory farming and relatively soon. I believe it will take a few decades before all cuts of meat can be replicated more cheaply than grown through animals but it will happen. And long before that point any meats that are consumed in minced form will be pushed out of the market except for very highly priced niche brands.

 

[Zkribbler]

Tell me more about lab-grown meat. I'm guessing it's cloned meat, grown in a lab, without any animal involved, yes?

 

[Ryika]

Lab grown meat is around the corner. It will improve food safety, dramatically impact the environment (for good), improve access to high quality, cheap protein and end the suffering of a lot of farmed animals. Start ups are pushing the concept forward and the cost for lab grown burgers has already fallen something like 1000-fold.

So yes, we can end factory farming and relatively soon. I believe it will take a few decades before all cuts of meat can be replicated more cheaply than grown through animals but it will happen. And long before that point any meats that are consumed in minced form will be pushed out of the market except for very highly priced niche brands.

This means that the Chicken Holocaust is just around the corner. Millions of animals will be stripped of their right to live in our farms and their lines of descent will be cut. All because we humans have decided that we are going to end the contract that has lasted for so long, because we think it is better for the chickens to not exist, than to exist in their current position. Such a tragedy.

 

[Narz]

This means that the Chicken Holocaust is just around the corner. Millions of animals will be stripped of their right to live in our farms and their lines of descent will be cut. All because we humans have decided that we are going to end the contract that has lasted for so long, because we think it is better for the chickens to not exist, than to exist in their current position. Such a tragedy.

Lol, we just eat em all and don't make more. They're bred to be fat and miserable anyone.

People will still have backyard chooks, nothing wrong with that

 

[Ryika]

Lol, we just eat em all and don't make more.

That's Chicken Genocide.

They're bred to be fat and miserable anyone.

There are many people who are fat and miserable, why do you not begin to advocate for their mercy-killing?

People will still have backyard chooks, nothing wrong with that

Which of course have not much in common with factory-farm chickens when it comes to genetic heritage.

 

[Zelig]

Sure, we could, but people get all riled up if you tell them they shouldn't be eating so many Big Macs.

I don't eat meat, so I'm doing my part, but I've got other causes to be passionate about.

 

[Commodore]

Lab grown meat is around the corner. It will improve food safety, dramatically impact the environment (for good), improve access to high quality, cheap protein and end the suffering of a lot of farmed animals. Start ups are pushing the concept forward and the cost for lab grown burgers has already fallen something like 1000-fold.

Aren't they having problems with the taste of lab-grown meat though? It may seem like a minor issue, but when talking about food, how something tastes can have a huge impact on whether or not the general public accepts it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Lab grown meat is around the corner. It will improve food safety, dramatically impact the environment (for good), improve access to high quality, cheap protein and end the suffering of a lot of farmed animals. Start ups are pushing the concept forward and the cost for lab grown burgers has already fallen something like 1000-fold.

So yes, we can end factory farming and relatively soon. I believe it will take a few decades before all cuts of meat can be replicated more cheaply than grown through animals but it will happen. And long before that point any meats that are consumed in minced form will be pushed out of the market except for very highly priced niche brands.

Chicken Little still needed pond skimmers.

 

[Yeekim]

Insect protein is becoming relevant pretty fast as well.

 

[Snerk]

Of all the social justice issues in the modern world IMO factory farming is the worst. We're literally torturing billions of creatures so we can eat cheap milk and dairy products. It's one of the number one polluters and a huge waste of grain feeding these miserable beasts.

People are able to get so riled up nowadays and rally behind causes but this one is serious on many levels and you don't see it addressed much except by vegans.

If we assume that lab grown meat is still a way off, then the only way to stifle industrialised meat farming is to drastically cut our collective meat consumption. If current or rising demands for meat are to be met, then logistically, factory farming is a necessity, sadly. If you care about animal welfare, cut your meat consumption and buy less and more expensive meat from producers who also care.

Environmentally it's more complex, as usual. The meat that comes with the smallest carbon footprint today is factory farmed chicken and salmon. Why? Simply because of fast growth rate. The quicker you can produce a kg of meat, the less food, water, logistics, transportation, diesel ect, you need.
Even red meat produced with animal welfare in mind is usually more taxing on the planet. It takes more time to produce it and in the meantime they eat, drink and fart.

So from whichever angle you look, global meat consumption need to decrease. Luckily there are plenty of tasty and healthy protein sources on this planet that doesn't involve animals!

This means that the Chicken Holocaust is just around the corner. Millions of animals will be stripped of their right to live in our farms and their lines of descent will be cut. All because we humans have decided that we are going to end the contract that has lasted for so long, because we think it is better for the chickens to not exist, than to exist in their current position. Such a tragedy.

All livestock is much much better off not existing than existing under horrible conditions they can not escape.

 

[Ryika]

All livestock is much much better off not existing than existing under horrible conditions they can not escape.

Who are you to decide that for them?

 

[Snerk]

Why do you think it's better to maintain vast population of livestock with poor living conditions over maintaining small population of livestock with proper living conditions?

 

[Ryika]

I'm not making a value judgement about which is better, I'm just saying that it's rather presumptuous for you to conclude that these animals are better off dead than to live with some amount of suffering.

From an evolutionary perspective, the main purpose in life is after all, to create offspring that can create offspring, that can create offspring, (etc), not to live a happy life without pain, so we can presume that animals want to live and have their offspring live on (even if it's not their direct offspring in the case of factory farming, it's still their genetic offspring), even if it's under bad conditions.

Wanting to club them all to death is not a sign of compassion for the Chickens, it's making a decision for them that they would likely not have made themselves.

 

[Snerk]

I'm not making a value judgement about which is better, I'm just saying that it's rather presumptuous for you to conclude that these animals are better off dead than to live with some amount of suffering.

Then make a value judgement about which it better and explain why you think so. It's not presumptuous to have opinions on how livestock should be maintained by humans. There's of course room for philosophising over the value of life and the impact of suffering and welfare on livestock and such things. But if that gets in the way of opinions of how this should be regulated then it's counterproductive and pointless.

From an evolutionary perspective, the main purpose in life is after all, to create offspring that can create offspring, that can create offspring, (etc), not to live a happy life without pain, so we can presume that animals want to live and have their offspring live on (even if it's not their direct offspring in the case of factory farming, it's still their genetic offspring), even if it's under bad conditions.

Industrialised farming is about as far removed from evolution and nature as it comes. Parallells are not applicable.

Wanting to club them all to death is not a sign of compassion for the Chickens, it's making a decision for them that they would likely not have made themselves.

This is nonsense. The only change you'd have to make is stop breeding new ones. Or at least reduce numbers and increase welfare.

 

[Ryika]

Then make a value judgement about which it better and explain why you think so. It's not presumptuous to have opinions on how livestock should be maintained by humans. There's of course room for philosophising over the value of life and the impact of suffering and welfare on livestock and such things. But if that gets in the way of opinions of how this should be regulated then it's counterproductive and pointless.

What regulations? The discussion was about the Chicken Genocide that will happen if lab-grown meat becomes widely accepted and replaces the need for factory farmed Chickens who will then have their lines of descent ended by us.

If you want to make the lives of current-day chickens in factory farms better, by all means, go ahead. Doesn't change the fact that the Chicken Genocide might be approaching very quickly.

Industrialised farming is about as far removed from evolution and nature as it comes. Parallells are not applicable.

Humans are part of nature, and symbiotic or parasitic relationships are a perfectly natural part of evolution. The chickens have (not consciously of course, and not with "intent") given up their freedom in favor of being farmed by humans, and as a reward for it, they're now one of the most successful species in the world.

This is nonsense. The only change you'd have to make is stop breeding new ones.

Chicken Genocide.

Or at least reduce numbers and increase welfare.

But how will you increase welfare if there's no need to farm chickens anymore? Who's willingly going to pay for it it, if there's no profit to be made? ...wait... you're not advocating for a chicken welfare state, are you?

 

[Snerk]

What regulations? The discussion was about the Chicken Genocide that will happen if lab-grown meat becomes widely accepted and replaces the need for factory farmed Chickens who will then have their lines of descent ended by us.

The discussion was never about genocide despite your attempts to troll it into that. To apply a genocidal aspect to reducing numbers in future livestock breeding, is absurd and highly disrespectful towards those who've faced actual genocide

But how will you increase welfare if there's no need to farm chickens anymore? Who's willingly going to pay for it it, if there's no profit to be made?

If there comes a time when there's no profits or it's no longer possible for other reasons, there will of course be no need to increase livestock welfare for there is no livestock. Chickens would probably still be around as pets and with the welfare concerns we apply to keeping animals as pets. Whether that is a realistic future scenario or not is another thing. At any rate, it's irrelevant to the debate.