[GS] Canada Discussion Thread

[criZp]

pretty lame civ, ice hockey rings as culture generators and mounted cops as military, like seriously? looking forward to getting a real civ next tuesday.

 

[Deggial]

By the way, we will be able to trade quantities of strat resources? If so, take part in an emergency or two, get friendly with AI Canada and buy up their raw resources surplus for cheap.

Not only that.

But I assume (!) the new desaster-related emmergencies will also involve the transfer of ressoures.
Ressources Canada will own in abundance.

And the largest contributor in those emmergencies will be rewarded whith the highest favor "price" - which will be increased for Canada on top!

The more I think about it, the better this civ gets ...

 

[agonistes]

I think ice rinks are a perfectly fine UI conceptually. Canada is strongly associated with hockey. Who is to say in 500 years we won't view ice rinks and Canada the same way we look at the Mesoamerican ball court?

I like that the Mounties have bonuses tied to National Parks, but that's about the only thing interesting about the unit. I actually think the Mounties will be more interesting gameplay-wise than the alternatives. They shouldn't have guns and they are something that will invite jokes. Then again, I'm not sure what I would have used instead. So, lazy stereotype but with possibly interesting results.

The tundra bonus is honestly the laziest bonus. There aren't Canadian farms in true tundra. But a real mechanic would have temperature zones with Canada getting bonuses to western plains that are still fairly cold. But the game doesn't have that mechanic. At least they didn't let them put farms on snow.

I'm going to greatly enjoy watching someone crush a mp game with a horde of mounties spamming parks - it will be so funny to watch! Especially if we can hear the commentary of the players on the receiving end.

 

[darkace77450]

In general I like that we have Civs from different eras. Ancient and classical Civs are cool, but it makes game more interesting to have Civs from later eras as well.

Here is a list of Ancient Era leaders:
- Gilgamesh

Here is a list of 20th century leaders:
- Roosevelt
- Curtain
- Laurier
- Wilhelmina
- Ghandi

That's a pretty stark imbalance, if you ask me.

 

[criZp]

Wow so many people just love to whine and complain.

some people just love boring meme civs.

 

[riddleofsteel]

then you lower the difficulty or you set AI civs to not be random and not be war dudes

Sure, but I meant something in game. Having to hedge your bets with easier game settings seems really cheesy.

IF diplomacy is redone maybe you can friend people to help you.

This is really what I'm hoping for, and seems very likely.

 

[klail]

What Civ calls "tundra" is really "taiga and tundra" -- Civ tundra has forests on it while real tundra almost always does not have trees. Firaxis didn't want to add both taiga and tundra so they just simplified it.

Canada and Russia are both heavily taiga so that is why they are "Civ tundra" civs.

From Wikipedia on Taiga:

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

"I'm Canadian and I never saw tundra in my life. 97% of Canadians live under the tundra line. This is bullfeathers."
Well, yeah, it's well know that all cities in Hungary are built like Budapest (seriously, they took one specificity of the capital being 2 cities reunited and spread it to all the empire... If this is not ridiculous, I don't know what is. But I red nowhere people complaining about the Hungary CUA).
Or that Japan only win its war because they're a hurricane flooding their opponents (one big battle turned into a CUA is a little overreacting IMHO).

"Canada is too stereotypical, that's rubbish!"
Do we have to speak about Waltzing Matilda being the music of Australia? The Carnival and Jungle bonuses of Brazil? CdM drinking champagne in a flute in a complete anachronistic way, in a time where champagne were merely just a sparkly wine and not more fancy than anything else? Gilgabro, a mythical semi-god? Scotland and they're bagpipes and golf? Egypt led by Cleopatra despite being a greek queen and capable of building multiple big sphinxes when they are kind of rare?

"Nyeeeh, I can't win a Domination Victory quickly with Canada! They're so laaaame!"
First, you can win a DV, but not just in the early ages and not as quickly as others (but, you know, patience is a virtue). But then, who is complaining about Kongo being completely unable to win a Religion Victory? Noone. Just grow up.
Before this first look, if someone would have said to you "How do you intend to play Canada", does your answer be "Being a berzerk and rampage everything in sight"? If yes, you have a problem (or are just a bloody player, and I respect that), but the vast majority of players would have say "A peaceful way. Production bonuses, bonuses from cold weather. Diplomacy". This is what Canada is.

"We already had Russia as a tundra civ! It's just a stupid duplicate."
Yeah, because we have only one civ dealing with wonders (Because China, France and Egypt are the same, right?), only one civ capable to build an improvment on water (after all, Indonesia is just a Dutch colony), only one civ with a thing for Great People (who doesn't remember the time Brazil, Russia and Scotland were under the same empire?). Yes, they use tundra, like Russia ; but they use it in a different and useful way.

"Ice Hockey Rink? Seriously?"
Yes. Seriously. Because, even if Canada is not the only one building those, they are the culture in which Hockey is kind of essential. Do I have to speak about the French Chateau? Seriously? In all Europe, after Middle-Age, every european country began to build castles like that, fancy turrets with white walls. The only thing we have is they are clustered around one river (the Loire). But it doesn't make them unique.


On overall, I kind of like Canada. They appeal a slighty different gameplay. They are not gamechanging like Maori or Kongo, and they are not as interresting as Hungary or Korea, but they are not as bland as Greece, America or Japan and not as lame as Georgia. It do not forces you to a particular gameplay, but it kind of encourages to go in certain directions not usually explored by many players (tundra, diplomacy, national parks...). For me, the fact that it lead to slighty different paths is what make a good civ. Not a really-good civ, but a good civ still.

 

[pgm123]

I don't know why everyone is complaining about stereotypes when most civs in the game are just as stereotypical. The French build Chateau's and their trophy is associated with wine. The Scottish have highlanders and golf courses etc. People around the world might not be as familiar with Canadian culture as people from North America are, so it's great that Canada has mounties and ice hockey rinks to raise awareness of Canadian identity.

I don't think they are particularly exciting but they have been well designed. Their national parks and ice hockey rinks will make them a very powerful cultural civ, and the incentives and rewards for emergencies reflects how Canada have been in real world history eg their significant contribution in WW2. I also like civs that specialise in a certain type of terrain and the only other civ that thrives in tundra terrain is Russia.

They've already grown on me. I would like something with the fur trading/trapping history, but that's not unique to Canada (the U.S. has a similar history, even if it's a bit less essential). Despite the regional popularity of the NHL in the U.S., ice hockey--particularly pond hockey--is very niche and always has been. Mounties are completely Canadian. The farm-tundra thing could go to a few different civs, but it's not awful for Canada.

 

[criZp]

Sure, but I meant something in game. Having to hedge your bets with easier game settings seems really cheesy.

civs like macedon, sumeria and mongolia are not designed to be balanced, they are designed to appeal to players who want do conquest games against AI players.

 

[Leathaface]

But that is a mid game civic. You have to get there first and not be massively behind. I like the idea of Canada being a culture civ but there has to be a way for Canada to compete with Greece/Russia/Kongo for the early game culture and right now I am not sure how that will be possible. I am really curious to when ice rinks are available.

Feudalism isn't a mid-game Civic. I'd say if was at the end of the early game in R&F, but with the extra era in GS it is for sure early game.

 

[UWHabs]

I don't know why everyone is complaining about stereotypes when most civs in the game are just as stereotypical. The French build Chateau's and their trophy is associated with wine. The Scottish have highlanders and golf courses etc. People around the world might not be as familiar with Canadian culture as people from North America are, so it's great that Canada has mounties and ice hockey rinks to raise awareness of Canadian identity.

I don't think they are particularly exciting but they have been well designed. Their national parks and ice hockey rinks will make them a very powerful cultural civ, and the incentives and rewards for emergencies reflects how Canada have been in real world history eg their significant contribution in WW2. I also like civs that specialise in a certain type of terrain and the only other civ that thrives in tundra terrain is Russia.

If they were going stereotypical, I think I would have done a lot more with the mounties personally. They're a police force, not an army unit. I think having them found national parks is genius, but I would also maybe give them some crazy abilities, like cannot attack units in foreign territory, and when garrisoned in a city or a national park, they provide 1 amenity. If we're going to have a civ that can't declare war, then why not give us a unit that can't attack as well.

I mean, I kind of have to play them first, because Canada. But not sure if I'm going to be overly excited by them.

 

[acluewithout]

I don't know why everyone is complaining about stereotypes when most civs in the game are just as stereotypical. The French build Chateau's and their trophy is associated with wine. The Scottish have highlanders and golf courses etc. People around the world might not be as familiar with Canadian culture as people from North America are, so it's great that Canada has mounties and ice hockey rinks to raise awareness of Canadian identity.

I don't think they are particularly exciting but they have been well designed. Their national parks and ice hockey rinks will make them a very powerful cultural civ, and the incentives and rewards for emergencies reflects how Canada have been in real world history eg their significant contribution in WW2. I also like civs that specialise in a certain type of terrain and the only other civ that thrives in tundra terrain is Russia.

Just tone, I guess.

Hmm. Scotland. Well, Highlanders were a real thing, and I don’t think they smack of parody in the game. Many people have said Golf courses are silly too.

But yeah, just tone.

As a Canadian, I feel the same way. I'd much rather they not have included Canada in the game than include it like this.




What fan service? This civ isn't designed to appeal to Canadians. A civ that would have appealed to Canadians would also have emphasized one or two things from our history that might have caused other players to say "Hey! Cool. I didn't know that about Canada."




Even the music department let us down. There were a dozen better ideas for the Canadian music theme on the O Canada thread.




You may be on to something here. At the very least, it looks like they decided not to spend any time on designing the Canadian civ. In the allocation of resources, I dare say they realized they needed to spend a lot of time making Canals work, trying to balance the Maori uniques, etc. So they cut corners and did the least possible with Canada.

Anyway, not every civ design is going to work. I'm just disappointed that Canada's first appearance in Civ looks like this, when it could have been so much more interesting. It will have a niche amongst players who find Deity difficult or don't want to deal with warfare.

Yes. I think you’ve been short changed.

All the colonial Civs are a bit silly or out of place, but Canada is the worst by far in those terms.

I guess with over 40 Civs, FXS are looking for bold designs that stick out. Canada is certainly bold - almost garish.

It’s a pity they didn’t stick a bit more substance in along with the silly stuff, so one could potentially play them in a more straight way. eg perhaps another UU that isn’t silly like the Mountie, and make the diplomatic bit more important (although, for all we know, their diplomatic bonuses may be really good). Keep the ice Rinks I guess, but the tundra farms seem a bit daft.

 

[pgm123]

Here is a list of Ancient Era leaders:
- Gilgamesh

Here is a list of 20th century leaders:
- Roosevelt
- Curtain
- Laurier
- Wilhelmina
- Ghandi

That's a pretty stark imbalance, if you ask me.

That's fair, but for gameplay reasons, we should think about them as Civs who get bonuses in the Ancient vs. Civs who get bonuses in the modern/atomic. Also, the 20th century is up to three eras in this game.

 

[Giskler]

Here is a list of Ancient Era leaders:
- Gilgamesh

Here is a list of 20th century leaders:
- Roosevelt
- Curtain
- Laurier
- Wilhelmina
- Ghandi

That's a pretty stark imbalance, if you ask me.

Dido?

 

[Inhalaattori]

Here is a list of Ancient Era leaders:
- Gilgamesh

Here is a list of 20th century leaders:
- Roosevelt
- Curtain
- Laurier
- Wilhelmina
- Ghandi

That's a pretty stark imbalance, if you ask me.

Im talking from a game play perspective. Also I was talking about civilizations not leaders. China, Greece, Cree, Aztecs, Egypt, Nubia, Scythia, Persia and Sumeria have part or all of their bonuses in the ancient era.

One of the reason we dont have a lot of leaders from 5000 or 6000 years ago is that we dont know anything about them. Also some of the really old leaders might be just mythical characters that like Gilgamesh or Dido for example.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Dido?

Classical

 

[Lord Lakely]

Dido?

Dido is 8th Century BC, which really stretches it imo. Ancient Era Leaders would include Ramesses, any Hittite King or Queen, Hammurabi,

 

[Saltcreek]

Feudalism isn't a mid-game Civic. I'd say if was at the end of the early game in R&F, but with the extra era in GS it is for sure early game.

You still have no incentive to build a tundra city early game when there are not bonuses outside the strats. Low pop cities will competing for theatre, campus, and commercial districts. If you have no way to accelerate yourself to the late game then late game abilities are pointless. Why play a tundra civ like Canada when Russia is just better in every way?

 

[Jkchart]

Boy I can't wait to see what @Zaarin has to say about this design actually.

"Thanks, I hate it".

EDIT: Because we know you hate post-colonial civs and the very mixed reception to this makes me feel your comments and sass will be perfect