[GS] Canada Discussion Thread

[shaglio]

The term "Timbit" is a Canadianism. It essentially means "doughnut hole, most commonly from Tim Hortons."

They are often sold in boxes of ten and make for a quick snack.

I often ask for an assorted Timbit pack.

We have something similar in my neck of the woods called Munchkins. I’ve never seen a Tim Horten’s around here, but we have a Dunkin‘ Donuts on just about every block.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Well, plains farms feel like a similarly pointless use of a builder charge. The big problem is that you can't get bonus resources like wheat or rice, Still, is this much different from what Russia has to deal with?

Canada doesn't settle tundra for the farms. They settle tundra for the doubled strategic resource generation.

Russia doesn't have to expend builder charges for its tundra bonuses. There are usually enough hills, forests and resources around to mean it only need work useful tiles.

 

[berlin88]

Plus Quebecois fought hard against the Americans, not a given prior to the war. So basically you had British Canadians, French Canadians, and the First Nations fighting together, while recent American immigrants to Canada mostly stayed out of the war, helping neither side.

Note as well that the burning of Washington was inspired by the earlier American burning of government buildings in York.

At the time of War of 1812, 75% of Ontario's population was United Empire Loyalists (ex Americans and their descendants), while New Brunswick and Nova Scotia had something like 70-80% United Empire Loyalists and their descendants. Ontario bore a stronger resemblance to the American south, than it did to Great Britain. A person could walk through Ontario in 1812, and feel as if they were living in American, because the language, culture and accent were essentially American. The actual British Canadians were a decisive minority within the Canadian population, as the two largest demographics were French Canadians and loyalist Americans who fled to Canada after the Revolution.

Canadian culture in the early 1800's, was primarily concentrated in Quebec, as Quebec was the only major province where United Empire Loyalists were not the major demographic.

I get the distinction of having ancestors on both sides of the border during the war, as my French Canadian ancestors were still living in Canada at the time, while some of my German ancestors were living in America, and other German ancestors were living in the areas of Germany controlled by the English crown (Lower Saxony) or the areas allied with Britain (Prussia).

 

[steveg700]

Russia doesn't have to expend builder charges for its tundra bonuses. There are usually enough hills, forests and resources around to mean it only need work useful tiles.

Right, cities in the tundra rely on other sources of food (e.g. internal trade routes, fish). If the point was that Canada shouldn't bother with farms until Feudalism provides triangle bonuses, I'd contend that's pretty much also true of any location without grasslands. But at least they have a shot at getting population out of a tundra-heavy locale later in the game. For that, I'd be willing to give them a shot, but the hockey rinks and mounties are what makes the whole idea sound half-baked and caroonish to me.

 

[Zaarin]

Still, is this much different from what Russia has to deal with?

Feed the World + St. Basil's + Dance of the Aurora and Russia can be a Faith/Culture powerhouse with plenty of Food. Not that Canada can't do similarly, but Canada doesn't get an inherent bonus out of the Tundra like Russia does.

Canada doesn't settle tundra for the farms. They settle tundra for the doubled strategic resource generation.

This a good point. Basically this makes them very different from Russia: Tundra cities are highly desirable for Russia if you make the right choices; Tundra cities are viable for Canada but you don't want them as the core of your empire.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This a good point. Basically this makes them very different from Russia: Tundra cities are highly desirable for Russia if you make the right choices; Tundra cities are viable for Canada but you don't want them as the core of your empire.

Correct. You want to be on the edge of the tundra for the most part, then place a bunch of small, closely packed cities all over the Tundra late in the game for ECs and Hockey Rinks. The farm housing is of greater benefit than the food. Although with Replaceable Parts, the food will finally not be terrible.

 

[Wingednosering]

New Orleans

Ugh, right. New Orleans.

I think both the Spanish-American War and Vietnamese War might have something to say about that. (Also I would say that the War of 1812 did have an important effect: it kickstarted American nationalism and turned America from a collection of ex-colonies into a proper nation-state [albeit the process would go on for a few more decades and only be completed after the Civil War]. Whether that's a good or bad effect is open to debate.)

True. Definitely the most pointless war Canada has been in!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Ugh, right. New Orleans.



True. Definitely the most pointless war Canada has been in!

You're welcome!

 

[God of Kings]

And yes we are still planning our revenge. Actually, Burger King buying Tim Hortons is revenge enough.

We have the last laugh:

After buying Tim Hortons, Burger King moved its head office from Miami to Oakville, ON (between Toronto and Hamilton). Miami is still Burger King's American base.

After that, Burger King/Tim Hortons bought Popeye's Louisiana Kitchen and moved its American office from Sandy Springs, GA (near Atlanta) to Miami (and Popeye's main office is moved to Oakville as well).

 

[Zaarin]

We have the last laugh:

After buying Tim Hortons, Burger King moved its head office from Miami to Oakville, ON. Miami is still Burger King's American base.

After that, Burger King/Tim Hortons bought Popeye's Louisiana Kitchen and moved its American office from Sandy Springs, GA (near Atlanta) to Miami (and Popeye's main office is moved to Oakville as well).

You guys can have them: Burger King is gross.

 

[berlin88]

You guys can have them: Burger King is gross.

Burger King was owned by a Brazilian investment company, which now has a majority ownership stake in the joint company that runs Tim Horton's, Burger King and Popeyes.

I don't really care much about Burger King, but it would be a shame, if Popeyes or Tim Horton's declined in quality as a result of the Burger King / Brazilian ownership. Popeyes and Tim Horton's are both fairly recent additions to my state, so I can't say for certain how the new ownership has affected quality. Although, there are reports that Burger King is downsizing its presence in my state, as some locations have closed. The arrival of Popeyes, was largely in response to some of the local KFC franchises shutting down.

On the other hand, Culvers has rapidly expanded in my state, adding tons of new locations over the last few years. Culvers is now becoming almost as common place as McDonalds in the Midwest. A&W is not as common in the Midwest as they used to be, so Culvers has filled the gap nicely. I much prefer Culvers to McDonald's or Burger King. Jersey Mike's is now all over the midwest as well, and they tend to be good as well.

Still waiting for Steak 'N Shake (not to be confused with Shake Shack) to open a location my state.

 

[Leathaface]

Second, the tundra farms are definitely bad. You need a Feudalism triangle to actually make them okay, which means Canada is a pure vanilla civ for the first half of the game. Even with the feudalism boost, they'll be pretty undesirable.

Feudalism arrives in the Medieval era, which is around a third of the game through the game. Half way through the game is the end of the Renaissance and the start of the Industrial era. (Pre-GS)

I think tundra farms are good since they can make tundra habitable. Imagine if the land around you is becoming crowded around the late Classical or Medieval era and there isn't much space to settle. It is an option as Canada to settle a city in tundra since they have the ability to grow there, for other Civs (including Russia without a trade route) settling in pure Tundra is a big no-no. It would be very hard to even grow to 4 population over the course of the entire game.

 

[Wingednosering]

Feudalism arrives in the Medieval era, which is around a third of the game through the game. Half way through the game is the end of the Renaissance and the start of the Industrial era. (Pre-GS)

I always feel like the back half of the tech tree whizzes by faster than the first half. Probably not true, just seems like it to me because the first half of the game matters way more and requires more tough decisions.

I think tundra farms are good since they can make tundra habitable. Imagine if the land around you is becoming crowded around the late Classical or Medieval era and there isn't much space to settle. It is an option as Canada to settle a city in tundra since they have the ability to grow there, for other Civs (including Russia without a trade route) settling in pure Tundra is a big no-no. It would be very hard to even grow to 4 population over the course of the entire game.

The issue here is that food is already the worst resource in the game to get a boost to (next probably being faith). Over on the strategy and tips forum, it seems that most of the max/min players and deity mains say you only want population 4/6 in most of your cities anyway.

So we have a bonus that doesn't let you grow a bit taller in tundra but not super tall in a game where tall in general is a weak strategy.

The double resources is really the point of the tundra settling, as previous posters stated. I think its usefulness will all come down to how well resource usage is balanced. It would make Canada unique in that a banned resource could really screw them late game. You could have a tundra city that's completely pointless later on.

 

[Ziad]

I dont think you can ban strategic resources.

 

[Saltcreek]

Feudalism arrives in the Medieval era, which is around a third of the game through the game. Half way through the game is the end of the Renaissance and the start of the Industrial era. (Pre-GS)

I think tundra farms are good since they can make tundra habitable. Imagine if the land around you is becoming crowded around the late Classical or Medieval era and there isn't much space to settle. It is an option as Canada to settle a city in tundra since they have the ability to grow there, for other Civs (including Russia without a trade route) settling in pure Tundra is a big no-no. It would be very hard to even grow to 4 population over the course of the entire game.

I am going to completely disagree. Tundra farms are all but useless and they will not change how Canada or any other civ settles tundra. Tundr farms just take way too long to become viable that there is pretty much no point in ever building them. There are 3 reasons for a tundra settle for Canada: strategic resource, hockey rink placement, national park.

That is it.

 

[pgm123]

Fourth, the war of 1812 should not be given any more publicity. It was the most pointless, ridiculous war in recent history that I can think of. It ended abruptly with no winner, yet both sides think they won. Canadians often talk about how they torched the white house (had a different name at the time) and Americans mention their late victory in New York that happened after peace had already been negotiated. The whole thing is a mess and gets way too much attention as it is.

Uh, we're very aware you burned down our capital.

I think both the Spanish-American War and Vietnamese War might have something to say about that. (Also I would say that the War of 1812 did have an important effect: it kickstarted American nationalism and turned America from a collection of ex-colonies into a proper nation-state [albeit the process would go on for a few more decades and only be completed after the Civil War]. Whether that's a good or bad effect is open to debate.)

And yes we are still planning our revenge. Actually, Burger King buying Tim Hortons is revenge enough.

Despite the comedic song claiming otherwise, Canadians did not burn down the White House. The soldiers that landed in Alexandria and Washington were Europeans and veterans of the Napoleonic Wars who had just sailed from Spain. I guess it's possible they stopped off in Canada to pick some people up, but really unlikely as we know they stopped in the Caribbean. Maybe there were Canadian soldiers in the Bahamas for some reason?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Despite the comedic song claiming otherwise, Canadians did not burn down the White House. The soldiers that landed in Alexandria and Washington were Europeans and veterans of the Napoleonic Wars who had just sailed from Spain. I guess it's possible they stopped off in Canada to pick some people up, but really unlikely as we know they stopped in the Caribbean. Maybe there were Canadian soldiers in the Bahamas for some reason?

This is correct. Similarly the post-war Battle of New Orleans involved British troops re-allocated from the Napoleonic Wars (during Napoleon's first period of exile).

Canadian involvement in the war was in repelling the American invasions in 1812 and 1813 and the naval battles on the Great Lakes. The 1814 battles and the naval battles in the Atlantic were more on the lines of most of the American War of Independence battles, with the British troops having no particular connection to North America.

 

[Leathaface]

I am going to completely disagree. Tundra farms are all but useless and they will not change how Canada or any other civ settles tundra. Tundr farms just take way too long to become viable that there is pretty much no point in ever building them. There are 3 reasons for a tundra settle for Canada: strategic resource, hockey rink placement, national park.

That is it.

What about getting to 7 population to be able to place down a Campus, Commercial Hub and Theatre Square/Industrial Zone?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

What about getting to 7 population to be able to place down a Campus, Commercial Hub and Theatre Square/Industrial Zone?

Flood plains may give you some good food sites even along tundra rivers. Fish are as good for tundra cities as anyone. And a city on the edge of the tundra may do very well, if it has food sources on the temperate side and resources/space for rinks tundra side.

And at a pinch, you can add a farm triangle. I don't think it would be your first choice, but it is an option. Under R&F rules, that is. If GS rebalances to favour specialists/larger population cities, you may be incentivized to farm regardless.

 

[Thormodr]

Glad to see Canada finally getting added to Civ.

To all the people who disrespected my country over the years on these forums and said Canada would never be a Civ,..

Laurier is a decent choice although I would have preferred Sir John, Eh?

No complaints, though.