1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Canada

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Stevo_D, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. Chopperhead

    Chopperhead Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    412
    Location:
    B.C. Canada

    Well Im guessing you are from Quebec so you may not see things the way I do but yes Quebec gets special treatment. I may have worded it wrong but they make laws that specificly apply to Quebec as in Quebec is aloud to do this or they don't have to follow this. Like why do you think when you hear things like offer not available in Quebec or something like that because you have diferrent laws then the rest of Canada simple as that. and to answer your statement they make and change laws for Quebec because if they dont it just fuels the sepertists and they dont want to loose Quebec thats why.
    I don't want to loose Quebec because well it's pretty simple I don't want my country spliting up. I have nothing against french people. I'm from Northern Ontario which is predominatly French just moved out to BC this summer. So like I understand the argument about Quebec having diffrent needs and I can respect that but when you go as far as to Elect a party whos sole purpose is the seperation of quebec from Canada kinda speaks volumes. Also I just have a hard time trying to understand why you want to seperate in the first place Quebec is one of the econmic powerhouse provinces of Canada along with Ontario so it's not like your being forgotten or not taken into consideration with every pice of legislation. there are plenty of other provinces worse off then Quebec I also dont agree with politicians babying Ont either constantly bailing out companys etc but what can you do.
    Also if any of you want to have a real conversation about this you can PM me and we can discuss this in more detail cause I would really like hear other sides on this whole thing.
     
  2. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    That's part of my point - Quebec actually (IIRC) gets a significant amount of that power from Churchill Falls - part of Newfoundland - and believe me they'd LOVE to get out of that deal (again, another of those stupid perpetuity deals signed by Smallwood...bleh!).

    I'm not trying to be unfriendly, but mearly voicing an opinoin - I actually am glad to hear some of these arguments, as i've never have people really explain the logic behind some of the drive for seperatism.
     
  3. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    Turnabout is fair play, since the maritimes supported the rest of Canada for the first hundred years of its existance. Remember that a lot of the maritimes were against Confederation because they'd have the economic burden to keep the rest of the country afloat! My how times change :)
     
  4. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    Every province feels like this - including (god only knows how or why!) Ontario :rolleyes:
     
  5. grzelakc

    grzelakc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    44
    Atlantic Canada is poorest because Ontario designed it this way. Money from atalntic economies is always funnelled into Quebec or Ontario. Recall the case of Newfoundland's electricity exports...

    Anyway, it has been an active policy for at least a century to move the centerpoint of Canada's economic activity to Ontario. That project succeeded beyond the authors' wildest dreams and at a great expense and injustice to Atlantic provinces.

    Saint John, NB was the largest city in Canada in its heyday and as those things go, it probably would have remained that way had it not been for the active and concerted effort to rewrite the map of Canada by moving it's economic centre westwards, to Ontario.
     
  6. franlato

    franlato Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    5. They are not fallacies, just point of views as the statitics i'm talking about does exist.
     
  7. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    The biggest blow to the maritimes was the demise of the fisheries. Ottawa was shortsighted, and sold fishing rights to large European companies, who came over in massive fishing vessels and took all the fish. This left even the onshore fisheries devestated. This had a domino effect on the lumber industry..why? Because a significant portion of the work force came from fisherman who signed on in the "off season" - but when the fishing dried up, they left - so there were less labourers for logging. A fisherman used to count on a near 6 figure salary, and ended up with nothing...and people wonder why the east coast is pissed...
     
  8. Chopperhead

    Chopperhead Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    412
    Location:
    B.C. Canada
    LoL I find this kind of funny because Im from Ont just moved out here to BC this summer and I hear the exact same thing out here just reverse it. you get a whole diferrent perspective on things though when you move half way across the country.
     
  9. franlato

    franlato Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    agree with you on this.

    As for Churchill fall, it's an very small amount compared to the Québec consomation... enough maybe to close one of our small Thermal central... lol
     
  10. Kudos

    Kudos Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    210
    They would help because they would have little choice in the matter. Political rhetoric may say otherwise, but in the end trade is more important and the people who decide the policy are not filled with nationalist grudges.

    Two other countires that are surrounded on all 3 sides by one country are Lesotho and San Marino. But Quebec is surrounded on only 2 sides. The north is an ocean and the south is the United States, and there are plenty of countries that fall into that sort of geography.
     
  11. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    What statistics? All canadians (a majority) were against the war in Iraq, but you've stated that only Quebec was- isn't that wrong then?


    .
    Quebec seperating won't fix that though- the other provinces, as we've discussed are still at odds on what is best for the country. You stated that by seperating it would be good for Canada's foreign policy, but since the rest of the country can't agree on anything, it's simply not (unless I'm mistaken here??)

    .
    Err...money paid to Ottawa isn't your money - any more than BCs money paid to Ottawa isn't BCs money - see below for the reason, but if you don't vote in the government you want, you get the government Ontario votes in - and they do what they like with Federal money. HOWEVER - its a bit odd that the Bloc this time aren't doing more, as they could sway the NDP to vote with them and get their way - but they won't ....why? WHo knows? I was talking about Provincial money - quebec has more say in what they do with provincial money than anyone else..

    .
    hehe - unfortunately though, it means Ontario votes in the government every time - and then everyone (including the only people who could change it - Quebec) complains. Its a bit difficult to feel bad for a group who simply refuse to do something based on old opinons. If you think the liberals are doing a bad job, then vote for the PCs or the NDP - heck even the green party has national representation. But then all the kickbacks to Quebec companies would stop, and they don't want that - so the Bloc was a great alternative.
     
  12. franlato

    franlato Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    I like to talk about Canadian politics (all the deferents views is what make this contry interesting, or maybe i'm loving politic to much) but, no, we souldn't put Canada in cIV:goodjob:
     
  13. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    ummm..Churchill falls has the largest hydroelectric-generating capacity in NORTH AMERICA. It currently puts out over 5200 MW of power - or about 1% of the WORLD'S hydroelectric power - it really is very big and supplies a significant portion of the power to Quebec
     
  14. Chopperhead

    Chopperhead Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    412
    Location:
    B.C. Canada

    LoL i totaly agree very interesting. Im also very into politics so I do find this interesting to actually hear what people think not what the news or politicans think.
     
  15. Kudos

    Kudos Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    210
    grzelakc what province are you from? You just sound like you're echoing things your sour teacher told you.

    All these arguments like Ontario car subsidies or St. John's once been the biggest city, are absurd. How about the MASSIVE fishing subsidies given to the atlantic provinces? Those are far worse for domestic and foreign economies. And "Once upon a time" isn't an argument. Once upon a time Rome ruled the world.

    The atlantic provinces and the prairies are useless by comparison. That's why more attention is put into Quebec and Ontario. These are the places that keep the country's bank full and attract foreign investment. Take away Quebec, Ontario, B.C and Alberta and you're left with something on the cusp of "developing" status.
     
  16. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    True about the maritimes -just that most people out there can't see the area surviving when cut off from the rest of the country.

    It gets a bit nit picky, but I don't think Quebec extends to Baffin Island/ther rest of them in the north, so technically Canada would still surround Quebec - Canada certainly wouldn't give up the rights to the northwest passage, especially as the ice is receeding, and it may become a very viable trade route (would actually be faster to go through that then the Panama Canal...)
     
  17. franlato

    franlato Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    All canadians (a majority) were against the war in Iraq...

    if i'm listening to some pool in the Gazette (I think) it's sadly isn't true...
    Forunately enough the pools did not decided, Chretien did :p
     
  18. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    The subsidies weren't as big as you think, and it was actually VERY stupid - they were giving a little with one hand (subsidies) and taking away with the other (selling the fisheries to Europe). It was a stupid decision all around - it made a lot of money and sense in the short term, but was disasterous for the region in the long term.

    And I don't think "cusp" would be the situation - the maritimes would certainly fall into developing nation status, and likely Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Until very recently BC would have been in the same boat, and the tarriffs on softwood lumber exports to the US aren't helping anything..
     
  19. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Surrey, British Columbia
    Absolutely - and a good decision it was :)
     
  20. franlato

    franlato Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    hurchill falls has the largest hydroelectric-generating capacity in NORTH AMERICA.

    Maybe, but Quebec now recieve a minority of that power. We have very big centrals here. Manic 5 and LG 2 are the main ones. With the decision to massively buy eolian power (20% of our production) we will be on the track again, helping our much needing ontario friend. (the disaster of the privatisation, indeed)
     

Share This Page