Capto Iugulum Background Thread

[Immaculate]

To: Chile, Colombia, Venezuela
From: Argentina

According to our Department of State, it is unclear whether religious freedom is currently respected in your states. If you do indeed respect religious freedom, and we are in error, we extend our invitation to the American Democratic Forum.

EQ,

Whats the state of religious freedom in Colombia prior to my taking over the nation?

What percentage are Catholic? Evangelical? Something else?

Many thanks.

 

[Jehoshua]

Colombia is almost certainly an officially Catholic nation (as evidenced by the fact it officially catholicised its education system). Furthermore I would tentatively suggest that Catholicism holds a near religious monopoly in Colombia considering that IRL 95% of Colombia's population was Catholic in the late 1980's (closer to 90% now).

On an aside I note, considering the education system has been Catholicised and directly run by the Church for a number of years, its only a matter of time before the effects of that reach up into Colombian politics (perhaps explaining the obstructionist desperation of the reformists at present ). The Church in Colombia, like it did elsewhere and as has been noted elsewhere gained much from the Great war (because it didn't support it) and is generally much more influential than it was IRL in this period generally. In Colombia I think we will see an increasing trend towards the faith as young people get churned out of a religious education system, in an environment that is already religious, and where the Church has moral prestige, kudos and authority which liberalism (due to them not being so astute as to oppose the great war amongst other things) currently lacks.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

Yeah, how'd opposing the Great War work out for the Spartacists?

 

[Immaculate]

OKay, so back to the first question, is there religious freedom?

 

[Luckymoose]

OKay, so back to the first question, is there religious freedom?

I would expect so, considering a lot of South American constitutions mimic Brazil's.

 

[Jehoshua]

I don't know... probably... It may be within certain limits on the part of the state (believe as you will, but no proselytism and restrictions on building shall apply), depends on how your predecessors ran the thing.

As to the popular religious sentiment no doubt protestants would face very strong social disapproval and opposition however.

 

[Immaculate]

Okay, considering that there is no clear consensus and Qoou's orders since 1924 make no reference to there not being religious freedom, and, well, me being in charge of the country, i'm going agree with Luckymoose and say there is religious freedom.

 

[Jehoshua]

You could just wait for EQ's moderator opinion.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Religious freedom depends on the state. In Colombia, yes, there is religious freedom, though Catholicism is the religion of the day more or less, and there aren't really that many non-Catholics. This is predominantly due to the fact that most immigration to Colombia was from Catholic states in Europe. The protestants typically went to Argentina or Vinland.

 

[Nuka-sama]

EQ Do I have asians?

 

[SouthernKing]

Are there any countries left where slavery (not counting black market human trafficking, etc.) is still legal? OTL the last country to abolish was Mauritania sometime in the early 1980s.

 

[Luckymoose]

To clarify the situation in Brazil: We are not Moral Proletarists as Dright likes to think. Proletarism is a syndicalist movement, whether revolutionary or democratic in nature. Syndics requires big unions and shiz, Brazil does not allow these, ergo Brazil cannot be Proletarist.

 

[Shadowbound]

To clarify, there's a distinction between syndicalist, which here is associated with proletarism, and socialism, which is not. Syndicalism focuses on trade unions and mass organization, while socialism is about progressive tax policies and welfare. In real life they're closely tied together, as trade unions are one of the main foundations of socialist movements, but in CI they are apparently not.

Syndicalism is a political movement, socialism is an economic system. They do not need to go together.

Are there any countries left where slavery (not counting black market human trafficking, etc.) is still legal? OTL the last country to abolish was Mauritania sometime in the early 1980s.

The USA was the last country to do so, but they still basically use blacks as slaves on giant feudal plantations.

 

[Jehoshua]

Some African nations might still have slavery, in persona mautitania. But the last nation anywhere cares to think about where slavery was officially legal was indeed the United States.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Not all proletarism is syndicalist. However, all syndicalists are proletarists, at least to my knowledge in CI. Scandinavian syndicalism is considered a valid interpretation of the Mathusian ideal, given the circumstances in Scandinavia, and as I've discussed with certain people on #nes, Scandinavia does not fail to perform as some kind of global revolutionary vanguard because the conditions for such a thing do not exist. Scandinavia is not the CI USSR, nor could it ever be the CI USSR.

People seem to insist upon putting Scandinavia and other proletarist states in some kind of "CI communism" box that just doesn't work. It's not that simple. I'm doing something interesting and potentially-revolutionary for the purposes of the evolution of leftist thought in the CI world, but everyone's too caught up in insisting that proletarism is a failed ideology because it doesn't parallel OTL communism to notice.

 

[Jehoshua]

Or rather, they are too caught up in insisting proletarism is a failed ideology like communism because they want to snuff it out to notice its chameleon like deviousness in shifting its ideological grounds

 

[theDright]

Proletarism isn't necessarily syndicalist. I may have gone too far in saying Moralism is Proletarist though. It certainly has at its base the moral proletariat though.

I don't know about slavery, but it is probably illegal everywhere, that is, against the law. But if you are asking if slavery still exists, particularly of blacks? It mostly definitely does, almost everywhere.

Scandinavia isn't trying hard enough to vanguard. Don't blame us for your failure to be the vanguard. There are plenty of Kings to suffer under in CI, even more so than IRL. Apparently Russia and Eastern Europe are devoid of liberalism, republicanism, or proletarism due to Secret Police. But once these crackdowns happen once or twice, shouldn't these movements have gotten smarter?

It's not that simple. People put everything left of 'Liberal' in the box labeled "CRAZY SCARY PROLE" and then try to burn it. Really without Traditional or Social Proletarism, we'd have an incredible and unbelievable lack of leftist thought, especially for a world as industrialized and radically diverse as CI.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Or rather, they are too caught up in insisting proletarism is a failed ideology like communism because they want to snuff it out to notice its chameleon like deviousness in shifting its ideological grounds

I have not conceded any ideological ground. I am merely shifting the focus of proletarism compared to OTL communism, or perhaps even not that, but its tenor and style. People who are arguing that Scandinavia is somehow not a proletarist state are committing two fallacies, the first of which being that CI proletarism = communism and the second of which being that Scandinavia cannot be proletarist because it is additionally militarist and nationalist. The USSR was obviously both of those things, and as much as the Revolution is tied up in Scandinavian ideas about the national identity and the Fatherland, the Soviet Union was tied up in Russian nationalist ideology.

I refuse to debase the Revolution and Scanditarianism by forcing it into a round hole. It is a square peg. Live with it

EDIT: theDright, if you think Scandinavia is not acting as a vanguard, you are not paying attention, and aren't being very smart at all about international relations.

 

[SouthernKing]

I find that it makes these ideological arguments a lot more entertaining to read if one replaces "Mathusian" with "Malthusian."

 

[Jehoshua]

I have not conceded any ideological ground. I am merely shifting the focus of proletarism compared to OTL communism, or perhaps even not that, but its tenor and style.

Fair enough, certain people will still want to see it conveniently cease to be.

EDIT: theDright, if you think Scandinavia is not acting as a vanguard, you are not paying attention, and aren't being very smart at all about international relations.

Our resident prole is correct. Scandinavia has a hand in proleish activity across Europe (noting reference to Scandinavian involvement in the Balkan Prole Movements) and possibly further abroad. Scandinavia's problem is that it isn't as good at subverting opposing political movement and bringing its comrades into power as say... The Pope (basks at being the catalyst of Polish traditional proletarisms self-annihilation)

That said, to give Scandinavia its due, it has had its successes here and there.