Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You can't. You need to make your own mod, recompile the dll with the number in it and play that mod.

It is just one line of code but it probably has far reaching effects for almost everything which is why no one has converted it to a variable that the player can set in the options.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So how do I do that before the game starts?

Do you actually think you can take a Mod like C2C or AND and change the DLL for 50+ Civs, play on a large, Huge or Giant map and then think that it will actually play to the end? If you do, then you really don't understand the mod(s) or the core game engine.

Just because someone several years ago made a 50 civ Dll for vanilla BtS and played it on a standard, large, or huge map does not mean they played till the end either.You had to have wiped 1/2 of the Civs out by the end of Classical to even have a chance at making the Modern era.

Ppl kept trying this with RoM and would come back and complain they couldn't finish one of those type games and wanted Zappara to fix it. He did make the Mega Civ Pack but it soon ran afoul by ppl try to put too many civs in the game. So he stopped updating and supporting it.

Neither C2C nor AND can handle 48 civs with Barb and Player fot a Total of 50. The game will choke on you long before you can get very far in to it. Even REV is designed to cut off new REV civs once this level is reached.

JosEPh

 

[God-Emperor]

If, on the other hand, all you wanted to do was add a few civs more than the default number it starts with on a map (and that target number is not more than 50, and ideally well under 40) you can do it by starting a custom game.

In the civ slots at the top of the option page that comes up what you pick CUstom Game instead of "Play Now!" you can add civs by changing the one at the end from "None" (I think it is) to "AI" in the column where you can change this. You can keep doing this for way longer than you should to get way more civs on a map that you should - but not over 50. This is the same screen where you can adjust the three of four dozen game options to be on or off.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I thought the problem was that while c2C defaults to 48 + barbarian + player in single player mode - How do I limit it to a maximum of 20 civs in game?

 

[God-Emperor]

That he may want to reduce the max rather than have more than usual, or more than 50, never occurred to me. (By the way, it's actually currently 50, including the human(s), plus 1 for the barbs making 51. The MAX_CIV_PLAYERS number in CvDefines.h which specifies the limit for the DLL is 50, but that is max civs and does not count the barbarians. To count the barbarians as well it defines MAX_PLAYERS as MAX_CIV_PLAYERS + 1.)

It ought to be possible to do that via a game option or two (for one or two lower numbers, anyway) or possibly even a BUG option to be able to set it from the current max down to any lower number you want (subject to not being lower than the current number of civs, I would hope). But it still requires modding the DLL. I would not free up memory the way actually lowering the absolute max number would, but it could maybe save a little and prevent it from growing as big via barb civs and/or revolutions if you use those options.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That he may want to reduce the max rather than have more than usual, or more than 50, never occurred to me. (By the way, it's actually currently 50, including the human(s), plus 1 for the barbs making 51. The MAX_CIV_PLAYERS number in CvDefines.h which specifies the limit for the DLL is 50, but that is max civs and does not count the barbarians. To count the barbarians as well it defines MAX_PLAYERS as MAX_CIV_PLAYERS + 1.)

It ought to be possible to do that via a game option or two (for one or two lower numbers, anyway) or possibly even a BUG option to be able to set it from the current max down to any lower number you want (subject to not being lower than the current number of civs, I would hope). But it still requires modding the DLL. I would not free up memory the way actually lowering the absolute max number would, but it could maybe save a little and prevent it from growing as big via barb civs and/or revolutions if you use those options.

I'd be a little worried that we'd lose game save compatibility for some games if we reduced it now but I'm thinking perhaps 40 + barb (and soon + animals) would help tremendously with memory limitations. I understand what you mean about it being a hard define and how that makes it pretty much impossible to benefit much from a global define setting or a bug option to set it. I mean it could help a little but not from a pre-setup memory position which I think is where we most need some gain. Would you not agree?

 

[rwglaub]

You missed the entire point of my question. I wanted to find out how to limit the numbes of civs in a game, not increase them.

Do you actually think you can take a Mod like C2C or AND and change the DLL for 50+ Civs, play on a large, Huge or Giant map and then think that it will actually play to the end? If you do, then you really don't understand the mod(s) or the core game engine.

Just because someone several years ago made a 50 civ Dll for vanilla BtS and played it on a standard, large, or huge map does not mean they played till the end either.You had to have wiped 1/2 of the Civs out by the end of Classical to even have a chance at making the Modern era.

Ppl kept trying this with RoM and would come back and complain they couldn't finish one of those type games and wanted Zappara to fix it. He did make the Mega Civ Pack but it soon ran afoul by ppl try to put too many civs in the game. So he stopped updating and supporting it.

Neither C2C nor AND can handle 48 civs with Barb and Player fot a Total of 50. The game will choke on you long before you can get very far in to it. Even REV is designed to cut off new REV civs once this level is reached.

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

You missed the entire point of my question. I wanted to find out how to limit the numbes of civs in a game, not increase them.

That is Very easy. Don't use REV or Barb Civ, and Play a Custom game. You set the number of opponents at game set up. I kow you know this.

Or are you wanting to know how to reduce the number of Civs that the game offers? And if so I beleive DH has answered that too.



JosEPh

 

[draz]

http://i.imgur.com/ewEpsfq.jpg

In this pic, you can see marble on the bottom-right corner - it is, however, on a different landmass than the city. I tried building a quarry and then a wooden palisade on it, but couldn't get it to connect to my cities in either case (so I don't have the marble resource, nor can I build the greek culture in that city). I know proper forts can connect resources to trade network from other landmasses, so is the wooden palisade just too primitive for this function, or is it a matter of lacking some prerequisite tech?

And an unrelated question, is there some easy way of checking which great wonders have been built already in a game? There's the notifications on the turn a wonder is built, of course, but those are easy to miss and it'd make the teching choices easier.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes the palisade is to primitive to connect resources to the trade network.

 

[draz]

I was hoping it was because of that, thanks.

 

[Faustmouse]

There is a button on the upper edge of the screen, that one that shows you demographics. It also has a tab "Wonders" or such, it will show all of them and where they are.

 

[draz]

There is a button on the upper edge of the screen, that one that shows you demographics. It also has a tab "Wonders" or such, it will show all of them and where they are.

But only for civs you have met, right? There's some jerk civ I haven't met yet hogging almost all the wonders in my current game. There'll be hell to pay when I get ocean-crossing ships!

 

[Thunderbrd]

It shows they're built, just that it's unknown who built them. And I got a chuckle out of that thanks! Been there...

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Do you actually think you can take a Mod like C2C or AND and change the DLL for 50+ Civs, play on a large, Huge or Giant map and then think that it will actually play to the end? If you do, then you really don't understand the mod(s) or the core game engine.

Just because someone several years ago made a 50 civ Dll for vanilla BtS and played it on a standard, large, or huge map does not mean they played till the end either.You had to have wiped 1/2 of the Civs out by the end of Classical to even have a chance at making the Modern era.

Ppl kept trying this with RoM and would come back and complain they couldn't finish one of those type games and wanted Zappara to fix it. He did make the Mega Civ Pack but it soon ran afoul by ppl try to put too many civs in the game. So he stopped updating and supporting it.

Neither C2C nor AND can handle 48 civs with Barb and Player fot a Total of 50. The game will choke on you long before you can get very far in to it. Even REV is designed to cut off new REV civs once this level is reached.

JosEPh

I don't understand this.
Why would the simple number of civs have to break the game? Sure, RAM is in principle a hard limit, but with multi-threading and view ports C2C broke through that barrier far enough to allow more than 50 civs from my experience. So what else? What is it we don't understand? Longer turn times? A hassle, but for the patient one who doesn't mind simultaneously reading a book and playing the game or something of the sort not necessarily a game breaker.
Though in this very sub forum it once was said that the limit of 65 civs or something like that was hard coded into the game somehow. So this actually may be the final barrier.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I don't understand this.
Why would the simple number of civs have to break the game? Sure, RAM is in principle a hard limit, but with multi-threading and view ports C2C broke through that barrier far enough to allow more than 50 civs from my experience. So what else? What is it we don't understand? Longer turn times? A hassle, but for the patient one who doesn't mind simultaneously reading a book and playing the game or something of the sort not necessarily a game breaker.
Though in this very sub forum it once was said that the limit of 65 civs or something like that was hard coded into the game somehow. So this actually may be the final barrier.

@Terxpahseyton,

At SVN version 7106 there were 59 Custom Civs in C2C, with 46 Custom Leader heads.

As has been explained before with each new Civ there is a Graphic load. This Graphic load is what eats the bulk of your Ram, both on board and video. BtS vanilla did not come out of the box with 56 Civs now did it? No it did not. Civ IV came with 18 Civs! BtS upped to 28. C2C as I stated has 59 and growing!

When you start a new game in the set up options The 1st line is for your Civ you want to play. Then for the map size there are X number of AI suggested for the Map. If you leave even 1 of those AI at Random the WHOLE set of Civs Must be loaded. So for C2C it loads 59 Civs that have ALL had custom art work added--massive Graphics loading!

BtS uses Civ IV engine, a 32 bit engine with preset limits. Vanilla BtS would run with 1gb of ram on a standard map IF you didn't add every Civ in the game to that map. Soon if you played the Mods included or FFH you needed 2GB of ram to run on a Huge Map. Soon the need for the 3GB Switch came to be needed to Play Mods like Rise of Mankind after v2.0. Why? More techs, units, buildings AND more Custom Civs. Zappara or Kalimakus(sp) (I forget which, they both worked on it) made a Mega Civ Pack for RoM but after 1 version cycle he/they had to stop supporting it. It was causing MAFs/ CTDs.

The Graphical overhead of C2C is like a Mushroom cloud. Until it gets reworked or reduced these reports of MAFs will continue even if you have an i7 16GB comp with 8GB of vid ram. The Civ IV/BtS engine can not handle the Graphic Load.

1 solution to start the trimming process is to make every Civ use the same units. No Special units (UU) or Buildings (UB) per civ. They All must use the same if you want 59 Civs loaded. OR you reduce the CCs (Custom Civs) in the MOD back down near the original 28 Civs.

Now lets add in 1 more factor, Map sizes. BtS had Huge introduced in it. But Modders have since added Giant, Gigantic to the list. C2C added Immense and Enormous which Had to be removed. Just the Graphic load of these bigger maps is taking it's toll in ram usage.

C2C is all about pushing the Limits of BtS. Impo it's run head long into the Graphical barrier, even with Koshlings Amazing work on Graphics load in game, with his viewport addition and then his Graphical paging addition. But even he warned the other C2C modders about going overboard on adding new things in all the time that required more Graphics. The warning wasn't heeded very well if at all, even by C2C's maker, who makes the custom civs.

Do you now have a somewhat better understanding of "Why would the simple number of civs have to break the game?"?

EDIT: 1 more point for clarity. Even when You the player Pick your Civ, the game Must have All Civs available (therefore Loaded) for You to choose from.

JosEPh

 

[Harrier]

Do you now have a somewhat better understanding of "Why would the simple number of civs have to break the game?"? JosEPh

Well said.

 

[The Boss]

I'm not a programmer, and I understand nothing of programming, (so excuse me for the stupid idea), but I ask: isn't possible have a routine to load (form inside game) only the necessary CIVs (when it needs to) from a "reservoire" that contains all CIVs, without modify the EXE (dll or other "magic" things you guys use)?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem is that it loads them before you/we get to select them. There are two ways we could do it

1) use a set up program before running BtS
2) after the choices are made exit civ and restart - this is the one I am looking into

Both would just automate what you can do now by editing the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls.XML file (also called MLF for short) inside the Modules/Custom_Civilizations folder and setting the various civs to 0 for don't load.

It would not remover the ones that are currently in the core XML files.

 

[strategyonly]

Both would just automate what you can do now by editing the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls.XML file (also called MLF for short) inside the Modules/Custom_Civilizations folder and setting the various civs to 0 for don't load.

It would not remover the ones that are currently in the core XML files.

You said you tried this correct?? how is that going, i just saw, JosePh's post in a different thread, i never even thought about, too many CC's?? , so i need to know i guess, thx.