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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. The4X

    The4X Chieftain

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    Yup, used my save almost fine, some civs got replaced, otherwise fine for now, thanks
     
  2. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

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    Well if some civs were replaced, the previous version was using some custom civs. They have been removed for memory reasons. The game engine automatically replaces them if using existing saves. :)
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Ok, helpful to know that in correlation to what you've mentioned.

    Ok, right. Well... it wouldn't. There are those trap and tower buildings which have not had a great deal of balancing to modern and beyond warfare but then again, they can be completely avoided given they can't hit anything but adjacent units and distances and speeds are greatly enhanced by this point. Enough air power can prepare a city to fall with relative ease without ever having to put your troops in a tenuous position next to a city for a round. We're talking modern warfare here. If you don't achieve strong air superiority in a theater of war you're pretty well f***ed. But you CAN overcome that deficit with a LOT of interception and siege units alone. It's just very important not to treat modern warfare like the siege warfare of the middle ages - you cannot get away with camping out next to a city over the round. You come in with shock and awe or you go home.


    Not sure what you're trying to say about S&D here but you had a thought and I'd like to hear more about it.

    There was some work taking place to deepen this stuff and make it more reasonable. It's been hijacked by many other tasks of equal importance. You're quite right those defensive buildings do need some more 'thought' applied to them to make them more reasonable. That said, there are some traps that could/should stop tanks in their tracks pretty well too though. So at the moment things like this are reflecting more than what they say because they're filling gaps in design elsewhere. Honestly... modern era has only begun to be reached by more than a small handful of players and many of the key modders haven't even played that far yet either so haven't been able to get the feel for things you've been. I'm sure I'd point out quite a bit myself if I ever get there in one of MY games too.


    HP is always a base 100 (Size Matters changes this basic game fact but if you're NOT playing Size Matters this will always be true.) If the defensive building tags are not further developed, they will continue to do flat HP damage irregardless of the strengths of the units they hit. And whether a 7000 strength unit or a 7 strength unit takes 100 hp of damage, both would die indiscriminately if the damage was not somehow ratioed out to the strength itself. I've long wanted to deepen the trap line tags a great deal because I know of this problem. Just one of the very very very many things I want to address at some point. Perhaps it's nearing time to really work that over since it's becoming the topic of the day at this point.

    You really must have downloaded an SVN version to have some of the adjustments from this cycle in play already. But all you have to do to get a complete update is update your caveman2cosmos file with the tortoise update command (right click on the file and you'll see it.)

    This is why I asked... I had a feeling the 'wonkyness' of Ranged Assault might've had to do with not experiencing it after recent fixes and adjustments. It should be much more solid now. The only thing at this point I'm thinking is that I need to pull back on the damage limit tags a bit or it can easily become too easy to use with a massive force to completely take out opposition without even entering battle. (Though doing this is strategically not a good idea because it kills all of what COULD be your hard earned captives!) I don't want it to be an overwhelmingly valid approach to warfare but rather a great supplemental strategy.

    hmm... I'm really going to have to investigate how this is working I think. You aren't the first to comment that strengths of nukes aren't very well aligned so I may just have to go in and really world builder test out how they play out as well. Now that more and more are reaching the modern era it may be time to start considering this.


    Not sure which AI bonuses you're talking about here... But a city's defense recovery is and has always been a matter of recovering a percentage of it's maximum defense when enough rounds have passed to experience a recovery (I think it's every other round.) Again, something else I've been wanting to manipulate significantly for a long LONG time. I WANT to give cities an opportunity to set themselves to BUILD defensive recovery as well as adjust how it works in general. I'm closer to being qualified to do that now than ever but AI city build evaluations are having some trouble in similar areas as it is so are already requiring a complete audit to figure out where they're making their stupidest mistakes and why. So that would certainly take a priority because I don't want to introduce something that might enhance the AI building selection woes any further at the moment.


    AH, you're talking about the A-Bomb unit, the atom BOMBER. Gotcha. Well... if we have it possible for machine guns to intercept stealth bombers than it's no worse than that. I've often questioned whether machine gunners should have interception abilities... but I've not reached that far into air combat yet as I still have a lot of work to do on the earlier eras of combat before I'd feel very ready to rethink so much of this late game side of combat.


    Yeah, heard about that one. Don't know which wonder it is but it's sounding more and more like a good candidate for flat out removal from the game due to ... well... unfairness really. I think some modder that put this in was probably thinking how cool it would be to possess the wonder and not thinking enough of how a player would feel when his prize units become an indiscriminate victim of its effect.


    Anyone have any idea what wonder this is? It should at LEAST be modularized and turned off by default so that players that want it can have it in the game but we aren't irritating those who aren't prepared to deal with it's quirks.


    I'm not sure how they could've stood against that force to be honest. What was the main problem? Not being able to get the defenses down far enough to attack? A few Artillery units is probably not enough, particularly if going it on a shoestring with air support. Now... if only the AI can be shown to have truly grasped this message - I've been trying hard to get them to build MORE SIEGE!!! I'm finally seeing them build some but though I'm setting the evaluation values on siege units to retardedly high levels they still seem to not value them quite enough. We'll see as I get further into things in play experiences I suppose.


    Well... do understand it IS the intention to make invasions very VERY difficult because otherwise we can't reach later eras because the player's already pretty much won by then.

    Oh wow... I've not heard of this one before and I'm really disturbed by this one because I don't know anything about the trade stuff. I'd really have to get a save where one can just go in and make such a deal to have a shot at figuring out how THIS happens.


    Hard to say just from hearing this if there's any possible good (albeit perhaps unintentional) reasons for this like out of whack wonders or events or something. Or maybe his capital was traded back to him from someone after a war given what you said just above this comment... Point being it's impossible to even research just hearing about it but it does help to know the problem lurks somewhere here.

    Yeah there was a bug that's been fixed in the unit accuracy settings since your fileset.

    (Or simply having enough siege weapons/air power to really take down the defenses to the point that you CAN then do more.)

    Ranged Assault damage is hard to determine for a player but so you can understand, the % damage is really the % of damage that the unit would deal to the defender in a normal round of combat if the unit hit the defender at their current strengths. That then becomes a value that's extrapolated out to the rest of the units hit by the ranged assault much like collateral (it actually uses a calculation very similar - almost identical really - to collateral. It in fact used to BE the unit's collateral damage and this was the very problem that led to a major rework (not all units that we wanted to be able to ranged assault even had any collateral damage ability so were doing nothing when they 'hit' with the ranged bombard!)).

    Hydro judgement calls I believe. He explained once that the meltdown effect was being used to simulate a number of various 'disaster scenarios' not all of which are necessarily to do with nuclear meltdown really.

    Obviously, the bug fixes and major needs to rebalance and thus deepen the ability of current game effects to more accurately reflect their intentions are much higher on the list than importing any concepts from other mods, no matter how valuable those ideas may be.

    I'm liking to turn it off so that I have a harder time keeping up with them. But then... I'm testing a deity level game to see if it's really as easy as I keep hearing it is. So far they do have a significant lead (and I'm loving it! FINALLY a challenging game! But from what I hear they'll hit the Classical era and start to lag and I'll be able to catch up a little too easily then. I'd like to see why that happens... I've got a hunch.)

    Yes, some interesting ideas. I'd planned on having a very Golden Age centric trait too... I've developed a number of tags that have never been used just for this purpose. I'd love to get back in and work up my traits one of these days. It's only been what, 2.5 years since I started in on that and still haven't finished the project.

    BTW, I did take all those purple promos out of the main selectable pool of earnable promos so we could now figure out how we want to make them specially enableable, such as from a building a GG builds or something along those lines. Something to come back around to after the major freakout bugs are dealt with here so it'll be a while before I take another look into the matter.
     
  4. God-Emperor

    God-Emperor Deity

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    Catacombs of Kom el Shoqafa
     
  5. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    There is also a building that does exactly the same thing, the catacomb extension to the castle. However it is supposed to be one for one. If you kill one of theirs there is a chance yours will also die.
     
  6. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Not-so-smart Man

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    Thank you, Thunderbird.

    I don't have much time at the moment to write out a lengthy reply, but I'll update the Caveman2cosmos SVN.

    I've started a new game, as America, with the new trait system.
    Scientific gives the promote units outside of borders, which is amazing.

    While the rules of war have changed, I'm still used to the base game where you go up to the city and attack there.
    Not build 20 bombers and spam a ton of other things.

    Regarding Ranged bombardment, what would turning it off do, I wonder?
    Probably make the sieging a lot harder.

    The biggest issue with modern warfare is the fact that cities are pretty much unconquerable with any army that doesn't measure in the hundreds, with cruisers parked off the coast stacked with missiles, and more bombers than there are squadrons in real life!

    I also don't know why AI cities would have 15,000 production, and it was a capital, so I don't think it was ever taken in a war. THere was no war with his empire until I declared war.

    IF the production craziness happens again, I'll send you a link.

    I also do believe defense buildings should be altered to have a max damage limit. :) And that if you built 4 different types, they can't all target the same unit.
    That would help make them less insane.

    Just be glad I didn't lose a Nanite swarm, or I would have sent a Nanite swarm after whoever added those things in real life. :)

    Also, Hydro may have explained why he did the meltdown for Toxic Waste Dump, but it's still a rather absurd way of dealing with it, since the dangers in this game for a nuclear meltdown are about 30 thousand times greater than the result of the worst possible Toxic Waste dump disaster. :) A bit much, you think?

    I mean, just ask New Jersey. :) The greatest disaster that happened there from a toxic waste dump disaster was Jersey Shore! :lol:
     
  7. JanusTalaiini

    JanusTalaiini Prince

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    Are you positive? I'm fairly sure that what the catacomb extension for the castle does is give you a gold bonus, and has a small chance to lower the city defenses each turn an enemy unit is adjacent.

    At least, that's how it works in the latest release (non-SVN) version.

    Also, another issue with the catacombs of kom el shoqafa wonder is that it goes obsolete quite late, and it's one of the first wonders you can build after sedentary lifestyle is achieved.

    *edit* I've also experienced the crazy production of AI cities - I might even have a save game of it, if that's helpful. I'll take a look.

    *edit 2* Nope, it's gone, looks like. I do recall that it was the result of a revolution, however - a small, backwards 1-city nation had a revolution in which a long-dead faction took the city, and proceeded to suddenly have science output levels far outpacing my own, who previously had twice the science output of the second place nation.
     
  8. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Not-so-smart Man

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    I don't play with Revolutions, so that's not the reason for it on my end.

    I can appreciate why people would like that kind of challenge, but Revolutions burned me quite bad a long time ago, and well, once burned, twice shy.

    An army of 12 highly promoted units from one city when it rebelled that had slightly better units than I did was a bit much. :)

    Regardless, in my new game, the only funny thing to mention, and yes, I updated the SVN, is my city I settled around the hot springs, Pannakate, or whatever it's called, in the permafrost, is now basically going to be the city of 100 defenses around it. :)
    MY workers only can build forts and a few mines, and mostly watchtowers.

    No one is going to take that city. :)
     
  9. becoro

    becoro Chieftain

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  10. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Yeah there's probably not MUCH one can do on non-riverside permafrost to help the plot out for a long time.
     
  11. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Not-so-smart Man

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    AHaha. Yeah. I'm now getting to make Workshops on it. The tundra got tree nursery of all things on it, and a farm.

    This game is doing very well so far. Got three vassals almost immediately after unlocking vassal states!
    I have crazy Charlemagne and Ragnar as the other two civs.
    Thankfully, they seem to not be cranky. :)

    Hopefully I can get the Holy Roman Empire's Divine Cult to switch to something else so I can spread Taoism.
    By the way, the Taoism promotion doesn't require a great general, which is nice, 20% free strength and all.
    Taoism is also amazing, with the World Wonders.
    If anything, the boost to relations wonders will allow me to get Charlemagne as friendly as possible with "You are a heretic." And they are Christians, obviously. I love Choose religion.

    So, update. After building the field of cloth and gold, Charlemagne became a vassal.
    It helped that he switched from Christianity to Taoism first.

    Still, having the Holy Roman Empire as a vassal is pretty crazy!
     
  12. Jozef

    Jozef Chieftain

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    I see that version 35 will be the most complex and interesting of all versions. When it comes out approximately?
     
  13. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Now thats a good question, it was supposed to come out along time ago, but we kept finding stuff critically wrong, and XML errors and duplicates, so here we are, then now i have 2 CTD's to get fixed yet by TB, and besides that DH is sick, so it might be 2 more weeks, sorry.
     
  14. qwoor

    qwoor Chieftain

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    what can I do to make it faster :)
     
  15. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Do you have any programing skills??
     
  16. qwoor

    qwoor Chieftain

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    if you are asking about xml editing/work with svn etc - yes. But if you are doing something bigger - not especially. I will contact you via prv
     
  17. charlesb96

    charlesb96 King

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    I love to play with the Revolutions op on. I use it to its relatively unknown power. I was facing a 70+ city civ, and I was able to do a cold war on them, cause them to go into a Soviet Union collapse and then I was faced with a 45 city "Russia" and several small civs that I could easily take over.
     
  18. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Not-so-smart Man

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    So, Playing that newer game as the Americans, build the Empire State Building, and upon completing it, got an error message and no 3 bonus resources. I am very sad. :(

    Other bug, Uranium Mines are kind of problematic.
    Sometimes they let you build them in cities with Uranium in the vicinity, other times they don't.
    Really annoying.
     
  19. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Do you still have the log files with the error message? If so post it on the bug thread.
     
  20. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Not-so-smart Man

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    Where do I find the log files?
     

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