Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Flying Mathias]

Just a question, what's the point of having civs in the game when they have no UUs or UBs? Why not just make a European, American, Oceanian, African, Asian, and Middle Eastern civ and give each civ it's appropriate leaders?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just a question, what's the point of having civs in the game when they have no UUs or UBs? Why not just make a European, American, Oceanian, African, Asian, and Middle Eastern civ and give each civ it's appropriate leaders?

Mostly because it is too much work at the moment. We have discussed this a lot. IIRC the number of civs you have in game is also limits the number of nations in game so we would need European I, European II, and so on to get to the 49 possible civs allowed in game.

The new suggestion for dynamic leaders may be interesting and its effect on leader heads has not been discussed. Luckily people have done the stuff needed to change leader heads in other mods so when the AI leader changes we should be able to change their picture also.

 

[God-Emperor]

The various different currently non-generic leaders that go with the civilizations have different traits and personalities. The personality settings for the standard leaders are, as far as I know, all pretty much the same as they are in BtS so Montezuma is still Montezuma in personality.

Once you have generic civilizations, how do you remember who behaves in what way? Once you see the second other civ you meet is Leader 2 of the European 1 civilization and that you now have to tell that leader from the one you already know, Leader 1 of the European 2 civilization, you may start to think that this whole "generic" thing is taking things a bit too far. It will become even more apparent when you run into Leader 2 of the Asian 2 civilization - how do you tell one Leader 2 from the other Leader 2 when all the pop-up says is "Leader 2", especially when there are 5 of them in the game? OK, so maybe it is "European Leader 2" and "Asian Leader 2" and so on, but that doesn't help to tell European Leader 2 of European Civilization 4 from European Leader 2 of European Civilization 1. The way to get around this would be to rename the leaders sequentially so there are no duplicates: the former French civilization is now European Civilization 5 and its leaders are European Leader 11 (or "the leader formerly known as Napoleon" as the tabloids call him) and European Leader 12, and so on. This would not be better than it is now.

It is much easier to remember things involving actual names, even if the names do not themselves actually match the usage. There is generally only one Napoleon in the game, which makes it easy to tell him from the other leaders and you probably know with essentially 0 effort that he leads the French civilization. Sure the "French civilization" may actually have acquired "German culture", and perhaps vice-versa, but at least you can tell who it is talking about when some message shows up on the screen.

Currently civilization names only indicate what regional culture they get based on historical associations, and the leaders are named to match the civilization (unless you use the unrestricted leaders game option, but there isn't as much point in that anymore). This works fine for keeping track of who is who.

Some people would apparently like a game option that forces their civ to get the matching culture for free. The easiest way to do this would probably be to make a UB of their Capitol building give 1 instance of that culture for free and only have the UB Capitols active if that game option is set. It may already be possible to do this, probably requiring with a small tweak in the DLL, with the Expression system in the Civilization XML's Buildings section - if that game option is active they get the UB, otherwise not.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Some people would apparently like a game option that forces their civ to get the matching culture for free. The easiest way to do this would probably be to make a UB of their Capitol building give 1 instance of that culture for free and only have the UB Capitols active if that game option is set. It may already be possible to do this, probably requiring with a small tweak in the DLL, with the Expression system in the Civilization XML's Buildings section - if that game option is active they get the UB, otherwise not.

I think some simple xml could achieve this once the option is setup in the dll. You'd give the nation default access to the appropriate culture building, rather than the normal base continental culture, defined in the xml I think. I'm still trying to sort out HOW to put an gameoption condition on a given tag though. And I personally have a lot on the plate that would put this off for months even if I took the project on. (I COULD set up the option but it would not be functional until the xml was worked out.)

Besides, there are some other ideas on the plate that might make this a fairly moot point.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Some people would apparently like a game option that forces their civ to get the matching culture for free. The easiest way to do this would probably be to make a UB of their Capitol building give 1 instance of that culture for free and only have the UB Capitols active if that game option is set. It may already be possible to do this, probably requiring with a small tweak in the DLL, with the Expression system in the Civilization XML's Buildings section - if that game option is active they get the UB, otherwise not.

Yeah all you would need to do is have the culture resource be given for free by that building. The down side is any Palace requiring building would not work such as the Myth buildings and Palace specific buildings. Also it would be nearly impossible for say a Myth building to require the Palace OR 50 other playable culture buildings.

Thus a better solution would be a Unique National Wonder that gave the culture resource. Thus you would get only 1 and no other civ could get it since it would be a Unique Building too. The problem is you still would have to make one for each playable culture. Which would take awhile. Plus not ever playable culture has a culture resource and not every culture resource has playable culture.

If someone wants to take the time and effort to mod that as a new optional setting be my guest. I am not going to do it. That's for sure.

 

[Civmatrix]

Just a question, what's the point of having civs in the game when they have no UUs or UBs? Why not just make a European, American, Oceanian, African, Asian, and Middle Eastern civ and give each civ it's appropriate leaders?

Mabye some people like being a certain country and having its flag regardless.

 

[dusckr87]

Mabye some people like being a certain country and having its flag regardless.

I'm guessing this is the main appeal, as otherwise there wouldn't be much point to adding new civs (as I know is being planned for, though my personal opinion is that I hope this isn't a high priority).

 

[Cyrusfan]

Mabye some people like being a certain country and having its flag regardless.

Just speaking for myself here, but having my core cities with names I recognize helps immensely in keeping my situation organized in my head (though I'm still trying to figure out why Minneapolis and St. Paul are America's 2nd and 3rd cities).

 

[dusckr87]

Just speaking for myself here, but having my core cities with names I recognize helps immensely in keeping my situation organized in my head (though I'm still trying to figure out why Minneapolis and St. Paul are America's 2nd and 3rd cities).

This may be true for you, but to tell the truth since you can rename cities before you found them, I would hope this isn't the main reason for others/the majority.

 

[ls612]

(though I'm still trying to figure out why Minneapolis and St. Paul are America's 2nd and 3rd cities).

Because SO lives near the Twin Cities.

 

[neoninja]

In C2C I noticed you haven't included two very prominent religions: Protestantism and Orthodoxy. Yet you have included Mormonism and Scientology. While Scientology may be a distinct religion and is quite...unique, Mormonism is just a offshoot of Christianity. This bothers me primarily due to Mormonism contributing very little to global culture and history, whereas Protestantism and Orthodoxy are extremely important to human history. Orthodoxy is the second largest branch of Christianity, was once the state religion of multiple nations (*Cough* Russia *Cough*), and the Schism of 1054 was a major point in history. As for Protestantism; multiple wars were fought between Protestant and Catholic countries (The Christianity in Civ IV and C2C is much more unified and an inaccurate depiction of tensions created from multiple faiths), and let us not forget: without Protestants we wouldn't have America and Canada as well as many other modern nations. I was wondering if the lack of Christian branches is an oversight or if you were working on including them at a later date.

P.S. If Orthodoxy (Christian not Jewish just to be clear) isn't in the works please consider this a formal request for it.
P.S.S. If you need help for the history/civilopedia entry for a Religion, Orthodoxy in particular, I am a Theologian by hobby and a member of the Orthodox Church.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

In C2C I noticed you haven't included two very prominent religions: Protestantism and Orthodoxy. Yet you have included Mormonism and Scientology. While Scientology may be a distinct religion and is quite...unique, Mormonism is just a offshoot of Christianity. This bothers me primarily due to Mormonism contributing very little to global culture and history, whereas Protestantism and Orthodoxy are extremely important to human history. Orthodoxy is the second largest branch of Christianity, was once the state religion of multiple nations (*Cough* Russia *Cough*), and the Schism of 1054 was a major point in history. As for Protestantism; multiple wars were fought between Protestant and Catholic countries (The Christianity in Civ IV and C2C is much more unified and an inaccurate depiction of tensions created from multiple faiths), and let us not forget: without Protestants we wouldn't have America and Canada as well as many other modern nations. I was wondering if the lack of Christian branches is an oversight or if you were working on including them at a later date.

P.S. If Orthodoxy (Christian not Jewish just to be clear) isn't in the works please consider this a formal request for it.
P.S.S. If you need help for the history/civilopedia entry for a Religion, Orthodoxy in particular, I am a Theologian by hobby and a member of the Orthodox Church.

This has been discussed on the religions thread. At 22 religions we have enough for now. There is enough graphics for these so they could be added unlike some which have been requested. They would need some unique properties (not c2c property system properties) for their buildings and some unique wonders.

Mormon was added because someone was willing to work with me on getting it in place as a different game religion. It produces missionaries (Elders) differently to the other religions and it removes access to some resources in the cities it is in, based on its buildings. The other two Christian offshoots, Scientology and Voodoo, came with the pack I started with.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think those two should be included, yes. But I think they should be part of a mechanism that allows for religions to branch off of other existing religions. Even Christianity itself is a branch off of Judaism.

I would be a LOT more willing to see Choose Religions go if we had religions evolve in such a manner.

In other words, you shouldn't be able to found Christianity where Judaism does not exist (and Zoroastrianism for that matter as that was the source of the Heaven/Hell belief structure), Catholicism where Christianity does not exist, Orthodoxy where Christianity OR Catholicism does not exist, Protestantism where Catholicism does not exist, Mormonism where Protestantism does not exist, Voodoo where Yaruba does not exist, Buddhism where Hinduism does not exist, and more I probably haven't considered yet.

But I think we need to develop the religions before we can lay out an enforcement of evolution on them. And to that end...

@DH, if you want to develop more religions, like these, and you need help with tags, I would like to offer a lot of help here. I suggest starting threads on each one we want to add to get some brainstorming as to what buildings and benefits they should have. I can't help much with unit arts but I'm a lot more capable of button arts than I was when I offered to help before and found myself hopelessly distracted from the task (in part due to realizing how little a grasp I had on it yet.)

I also really think we need a 'Great Spirit' religion or something to that extent that represents the beliefs of the Cherokee. And perhaps a few other tribal beliefs should find their way into the religion lists. The Inuit had some interesting ones. And what about Celtic mythology? Is that what Druidism is supposed to represent? And what about Baal? His worship, a part of a much larger mythology (Hittites was it?) was enemy number one for the early Israelites. We still have a lot more religions we could/should develop I think.

But then, this all blends with what you're doing with the Faces of God, which, if I understand the mechanism there, I think would work for SOME religions, like Mesopotamianism, Helenism, Asatru, Hinduism, and Kemetism, but few others. I'm interested to see how this would blend in with C2C actually. I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on these matters in the religious discussion thread if possible.

 

[Cyrusfan]

I never use Inquisitors, so I just assume they wipe out everything but your state religion. If you were to go the branching route, might they be modified to target specific non state religions? Or maybe have some way of designating some non-state religions as tolerated?

 

[black baron]

Hello, I recently showed a friend C2C and helped him install it on his computer. Oddly enough, whenever he attempts to generate a world, his C2C crashes just as it starts to initialize the graphic. Any idea what's wrong and how to fix this?

On an unrelated note, I notice you have the Communist government civic disabled. I figured it's because it's disabled. What I would like to know is, when do you think you'll have the chance to finish and include it?

 

[dusckr87]

Hello, I recently showed a friend C2C and helped him install it on his computer. Oddly enough, whenever he attempts to generate a world, his C2C crashes just as it starts to initialize the graphic. Any idea what's wrong and how to fix this?

Did you try a different mapscript? I've found that 90% of crashes like the above are due to either poor mapscripts, or a size that is too large. I used to like Planet Generator, but I've found that it crashes every time even the version included with this mod (and to tell the truth I haven't looked at the python file closely to see if it is any different from the generic version).

 

[strategyonly]

@Koshling:

Way to go on the NEW AI for the barbarians, i have NEVER seen this kind of activity since BtS first came out, one hellofva job

 

[Nakkimunakas]

All the Italian leaders seem to have only 2 traits in v24 whereas other empires seem to have leaders with 3 traits. Just thought this is probably not intentional.

 

[strategyonly]

All the Italian leaders seem to have only 2 traits in v24 whereas other empires seem to have leaders with 3 traits. Just thought this is probably not intentional.

Yeah we are trying hard to get stuff straight, just check out the traits thread, alot of NEW info going on there.

 

[DoubleRD77]

I have a question about culture. I noticed that you can no longer win over the tiles directly adjacent to enemy cities. I always liked to build up my culture, and then squeeze the life out of enemy cities by absorbing all of the squares around them. Is there any way to get this culture option back?

Another question is the previous version had a number of intro songs for the title screen. Now it only seems to have the one song. Are there other songs for it?