Caveman2Cosmos Let's Play - AstralPhaser/12padams

[Hydromancerx]

I've got assimilation on... I just hope the English are on my map too!

ANY European culture can allow you to get English culture. Thus if you took over a Viking city you could potentially get English Culture. Look up the culture wonders in the civpedia for more details on the specific requirements.

 

[Mouthwash]

<nvm>

 

[12padams]

Well, here is episode 10 (currently still uploading but will be done in 3 hours.... stupid Australian upload speeds (80KBPS)). Sorry... I don't know how but I accidently go back to my old pronunciation of "ADIADI" rather than "ATLATL". Hope you enjoy

Episode 10: http://youtu.be/QM6qotpn7As
Well... My civilization made it to the ancient era without wearing any cloths but I just had to give them some since Australians are not nudists! Oh and I also got some trained dogs in all my cities in case some "invisible people" come to terrorize my people. I also found a barbarian city with an atlatl that killed my scout that had just hiked through the entire desert while a bunch of sea creatures destroyed my raft. That was the final straw so I decided to upgrade to War Canoes and spend ages preparing to get my first Galley.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Ah, see? I told you to move that scout you were so keen on exploring that southern island with back up north to get animals while he could. Oh well. Too late now.

The civs on the eastern continent are expanding quickly. Make it a high priority next round to get a city NE of Brisbane, to claim those awesome resources.

Why do you keep intentionally ignoring fire pits? They give you charcoal, culture, and lead to food buildings. I mean, seriously. Flammability is negligable. Also, make sure to immediately send a work boat to those crabs north of Sydney. They'll help with your healthiness.

Next episode, in addition to a city northeast of Brisbane, try and put on NW of it, on that westernmost pennisula. I see the fish there. Excellent. As soon as you get that fish in the new city, build Polynesian culture. This will allow all your cities to build Koas, the unique polynesian unit. They are seven strength, and good at attacking cities. Horsemen? Who needs em? Build koas, and start preparing to attack those annoying Egyptians.

However, I still would recommend settling the city NE of Brisbane first. You need to claim as much of that territory as you can.

Yes, nothing upgrades to galleys. I had another smacking-head moment seeing you spend ten minutes trying to get sails, when you had already moused over the tannery several times already.

If you've noticed, several wonders have been built already. Not so good. You need that stone in Melbourne ASAP. Keep spamming the culture buildings there. If you can get the stone soon, try building the Moai statues in Melbourne.

I actually think atl-atls uprade to javlineers, though I'm not sure. They're equally as good, though.

As for science, yes, archery, naval warfare, then make a rush to masonry. After that, I'd go for divination. This will let you build the oracle, which will get you another free tech.

By the way, perhaps you might benefit from moving spending espionage points to the second and third highest civs, so you can see what they're researching? Try to be able to see what the top five civs are researching, I'd say.

And just as a reminder, try and have about ten war galleys in total. Pair them up, and send them in spots around the two continents. Try to get as many sea animals with them as you can. Make sure whatever ships you build, you build them in Canberra. You have the master sea hunter there, if you recall.

Finally, could you go into the demographics screen? I'd like to see how you compare with the other civs in terms of food, production, commerce, etc.

 

[God-Emperor]

A tech you could use: Poultry Domestication. I don't think you actually get the poultry resource in your cities until you get that tech. It will also let you build a food building in the capital, although as I recall the chicken coops building cause a point of unhealthiness too (which would cancel out the point of health which I think the poultry resource would give you).

While you are domesticating things, you may as well get the horse domestication (which I think would give you the actual horse resource - I don't think you really have it yet) and riding. Their main advantage is speed, which is always handy. A couple of horsemen can reinforce any location under attack (on the same landmass) quickly and they are fairly strong.

I would probably delay Masonry until after those since you appear to be ahead in techs.

Stone would be good to get while you are still in the stone age. Culture buildings should be a high priority in Melbourne. There is a good chance its next border pop will get the stone. If not, your odds of getting the Moai Statues there may be quite slim since I would expect them to be gone by the time it gets 2 more border pops.

You need to get a work boat to build fishing boats on the crabs north of Sydney. It will give you +1 health everywhere.

A lot of the unhealthiness in your capital comes from disease (something like +5 unhealthiness total from 3 different disease buildings). Anything that reduces the disease property would be good to build there. You delayed one such building (sweat lodge, which I think also gives +1 health) that gives -1 disease/turn, but it may have gotten built after the tannery/sail-maker/rope-maker/shipyard since that is what you were delaying it for. I don't remember if it ever got built or not. If not, that would be good to build there.

That scout you sent up north on the eastern continent is probably dead. You have it trying to heal on a plot that causes terrain damage and I think it is at least 4 moves from non-damaging terrain. 15% damage - 10% healing rate = slow death. Not healing = fast death since I don't think you can get to non-damaging terrain fast enough to save it. If that turns out to be the case, you should just send it north-east to the currently unknown plots to see what it there, which is more useful than having it die without getting anything out of it. (If you are very lucky there could be a non-damaging plot just out of sight, like the plot with the bison west-southwest of your capital. But probably not.)

Also, check the espionage screen. I think you are still directing 100% of your espionage points towards the Congo (I think it is). You can now see what they are researching, so adjust the weights to get some espionage against someone else too.

And you should not be avoiding the chiefs hut. It is usually worth building, at least in large cities. I'd suggest one in your capital, at least. The +2 espionage would be good for you. The +1 experience points on various units would be good too. So would the crime reduction, since some of the other buildings you will want to build add some crime (I think the river port and the barter thing both give +5 crime, but the chief's hut gives -10). It has other beneficial effects too: +1 happy and +2 culture. Its only bad thing is that it goes obsolete when you switch away from the Chiefdom civic, but that could be quite a long time from now.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Yes, I agree with the chief's hut analysis. There's no real rush for monarchy with rev and city limits off, so don't be avoiding them.

However, I really don't see the immediate benefit of horses or chicken domestication. Horses may be fast, but they get no defensive bonuses, and the Egyptians are right south of his cities. Flat terrain that isn't damaging is a luxury with perfect world 2f, and that's the only place horses are good for. Those polynesian special units will serve him all the military force he needs, along with a few javlineers and archers for defense, for a long time to come. The poultry domestication tech gives...what? A chicken farm? Not worth it.

Look, by the time you get masonry, you should just about have your stone. Then you can start in on the wonder building. Pyramids, stonehenge, the sphinx, VALLEY OF THE KINGS (pretty much the single best wonder in the game, abouts).

Rush to masonry. Then to divination. That's what I'd say.

Also, in defense of how I said I most certainly am not an expert on this mod, Hydromancerx proves this by showing that yes, all you need to do to get Australian culture is to conquer a europeon civ. Like...Ragnar for instance. Then you can find out how to build English culture, and then Australian.

Also, on improvements. Lumberjacks may only give 1 hammer, but they become oh so much better as the game goes on. Build them everywhere. Though, if there's trees on a hill, I'd still recommend the special stone workshops. Farms are not really needed right now, though if your workers have nothing better to do, they could, I guess.

But you will be getting mud paths soon, and all the paths you've made will not automatically upgrade. So you will need to have your workers make them one. by. one.

In summary, this is my advice. Start building a settler in Canberra. By the time it's done, you should have naval warfare. Go settle northeast of Brisbane. Make sure to make a few more defensive units for it. It will be a tantalizing target for all the civs over there. Get about ten war galleys. Get one or two regular galleys, and just have them sit to ferry units back and forth between your cities. That's where they'll stay...just about forever. Station your war galleys in pairs around the continents. Make sure that all the ships you build come from Canberra, for maximum exp.

Start working towards masonry.

 

[12padams]

However, I really don't see the immediate benefit of horses or chicken domestication. Horses may be fast, but they get no defensive bonuses, and the Egyptians are right south of his cities. Flat terrain that isn't damaging is a luxury with perfect world 2f, and that's the only place horses are good for. Those polynesian special units will serve him all the military force he needs, along with a few javlineers and archers for defense, for a long time to come. The poultry domestication tech gives...what? A chicken farm? Not worth it.

Whoops... I've already recorded episode 11 now (will upload in about 30 hours) and... Well I got those techs in that episode... Sorry but I didn't know that only your advice was valid lol

Rush to masonry. Then to divination. That's what I'd say.

Will do in episode 12... Don't worry because I am already quite near to masonry now. Still... Realistic Culture spred is a nightmare making it impossible to get stone

In summary, this is my advice. Start building a settler in Canberra. By the time it's done, you should have naval warfare. Go settle northeast of Brisbane. Make sure to make a few more defensive units for it. It will be a tantalizing target for all the civs over there. Get about ten war galleys. Get one or two regular galleys, and just have them sit to ferry units back and forth between your cities. That's where they'll stay...just about forever. Station your war galleys in pairs around the continents. Make sure that all the ships you build come from Canberra, for maximum exp.

Well... I've already recorded epsiode 11 before reading this but guess what... I did this anyway

 

[wolfensoul9]

Bah, well, at least they were prehistoric techs, so I'm guessing they didn't set you back much more than 15 turns. I do hope you see that the other domestication techs...well...you can basically ignore. The early ancient era is in my opinion, the most important, with caste, agriculture, the wheel, mining, masonry, and pottery. I always get these before anything else.

So far you seem to be doing alright. You're making less silly mistakes, and a couple times in the past episodes, you've even noticed a good decision before I did.

Soon you'll be playing deity, haha.

 

[God-Emperor]

The poultry domestication tech gives...what? A chicken farm? Not worth it.

EDIT: Oops. Too late. Didn't notice the last posts...

It gets you the actual poultry resource in your cities. I thought that gave +1 health but I checked and it turns out it gives +1 happy. I guess people like chickens.

I prioritized it mainly for the expected +1 health, which would be useful right about now. But since it doesn't give that, it is lower priority that I though (until cities start to run out of happy, since it gives that instead).

The horses are not for defense, as such, so defensive bonus doesn't matter. At this point, I think there are a reasonable number of defensive units except over in Brisbane and in Melbourne (one should probably be moved to each of them), especially since archery is almost done. Every military unit built has been getting defensive promotions: for the last 5 atl-atls the promotions were 3 with city defense and 2 woodsman. What is needed are a few units that are good for attack, especially for attacking enemy units that walk into Australian territory to pillage improvements or just stand there being a nuisance (like last time). A few horsemen are good for that as they are strength 5 and they even get +25% for attacking archers, like atl-atls (or actual archers, for that matter).

The Polynesian special unit is a long ways away. There is no city that can build the culture wonder yet, so first one must be founded near some fish. Then that city has to get its basic infrastructure up (some production, some food, and a little culture production - especially if the fish are not immediately adjacent to it), then it has to build the wonder to get the culture, and only after all that can that unit be built. It would be very lucky to get to it in less than 100 turns,even if there is a suitable place that is immediately adjacent to fish (and I don't think there is a location like that except up in the permafrost or perhaps on the other side of another civ - Egypt or Scandinavia), if the new city has to pop its borders to get the fish then it might take over 150, and possibly well over since it seems culture spread to ocean is slow so it might take 2 border pops.

It has occurred to me that if the early culture unit (storyteller, I think) can be built, and I expect it can, then perhaps 2 or 3 should be built and sent over to help Melbourne pop its borders sooner to get the stone by doing their mini culture bomb there. They are not very effective, but each one would probably shave off something like 2 turns. Maybe.

Oh, one more thing. I forgot to mention before: the red fist icon also usually shows for civilizations that are already at war, not just planning it. Some of them are at war with each other. You can see who is fighting who with the foreign advisor.

 

[wolfensoul9]

So I think we can concur that the poultry domestication was a bad move. All it did was give an ounce of food, and a happy, at the expense of more health.

The way I see it, horses are just no good considering the terrain. Horses get minus penalties attacking into rough terrain, and any AI that wanders into his territory will stick to that. Combined with the defense bonus they get, the horses won't be able to scratch them. Useless.

The Koas are not as far off as you might think. He already has a fish NW of Brisbane. All he needs to do is settle a city on that western pennisula, and it is available for making. Sure he might need a few production buildings, but if he went for it now, he could get it done in 50-70 turns, and there are the Koas.

Anyways, he's not really running for an aggressive attack quite yet. He'll probably start that next episode. I think by the end of next episode, he can be able to make Koas. That should be a good attempt. At least start working on the culture by that time. Spend the episode after building them, then go ransack the Egyptians. This is all just hypothetical, though, we'll wait and see.

Oh, and no storytellers until he gets trade. I find that a rather odd requirement.

Edit: Actually...after alot of thought, I think it'd be better to just go ideograms, pottery, mining, THEN sacrifice cult, divination. Use the oracle from divination to get masonry (it's not like there's a huge competition for it first). While the oracle is working, go for stargazing. By the time you get it, you'll have gotten masonry from the oracle. Then you can build the Cheomseougdae (or however you spell it) this will allow you to get ANOTHER free tech. I'd recommend getting trade with it. Then you can go for writing, and by the time that's done, hopefully you've gotten the valley of the kings, which will get you yet another free tech, and a golden age, a golden age, I might add, is extended due to the Cheomseoungdae. Use that free tech to get alphabet. This will get you A TON of new civics, most of which increase science, and all of which you can switch into for free, due to the golden age.

Very long term, I know, but pull it off right, and he can get a massive lead.

This best part about all this massive wonder beelining, is that his military, with the koas, archery, and war galleys will be absolutely unmatched, so it's not like he'll be vulnerable.

 

[Koshling]

So I think we can concur that the poultry domestication was a bad move. All it did was give an ounce of food, and a happy, at the expense of more health.

The way I see it, horses are just no good considering the terrain. Horses get minus penalties attacking into rough terrain, and any AI that wanders into his territory will stick to that. Combined with the defense bonus they get, the horses won't be able to scratch them. Useless.

The Koas are not as far off as you might think. He already has a fish NW of Brisbane. All he needs to do is settle a city on that western pennisula, and it is available for making. Sure he might need a few production buildings, but if he went for it now, he could get it done in 50-70 turns, and there are the Koas.

Anyways, he's not really running for an aggressive attack quite yet. He'll probably start that next episode. I think by the end of next episode, he can be able to make Koas. That should be a good attempt. At least start working on the culture by that time. Spend the episode after building them, then go ransack the Egyptians. This is all just hypothetical, though, we'll wait and see.

Oh, and no storytellers until he gets trade. I find that a rather odd requirement.

Edit: Actually...after alot of thought, I think it'd be better to just go ideograms, pottery, mining, THEN sacrifice cult, divination. Use the oracle from divination to get masonry (it's not like there's a huge competition for it first). While the oracle is working, go for stargazing. By the time you get it, you'll have gotten masonry from the oracle. Then you can build the Cheomseougdae (or however you spell it) this will allow you to get ANOTHER free tech. I'd recommend getting trade with it. Then you can go for writing, and by the time that's done, hopefully you've gotten the valley of the kings, which will get you yet another free tech, and a golden age, a golden age, I might add, is extended due to the Cheomseoungdae. Use that free tech to get alphabet. This will get you A TON of new civics, most of which increase science, and all of which you can switch into for free, due to the golden age.

Very long term, I know, but pull it off right, and he can get a massive lead.

This best part about all this massive wonder beelining, is that his military, with the koas, archery, and war galleys will be absolutely unmatched, so it's not like he'll be vulnerable.

Horses very quickly get the commando promotion once you start to add things like riding stables into the mix, which gives them the ability to use enemy roads. At that point, near an enemy city, they are excellent when used to enhance surround&destroy tactics (keep horse stacks 2 away from city on a couple of sides, move adjacent to city with main attack stack, then on actual attack turns move horses in to completely (or as near as possible) surround the city using half their movement points (typically it will all be roaded), make the attack with the attack stack (full S&D bonus), then move the horses back where they are not so easily counter-attacked.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Horses very quickly get the commando promotion once you start to add things like riding stables into the mix, which gives them the ability to use enemy roads. At that point, near an enemy city, they are excellent when used to enhance surround&destroy tactics (keep horse stacks 2 away from city on a couple of sides, move adjacent to city with main attack stack, then on actual attack turns move horses in to completely (or as near as possible) surround the city using half their movement points (typically it will all be roaded), make the attack with the attack stack (full S&D bonus), then move the horses back where they are not so easily counter-attacked.

I will admit that is a pretty good tactic. I don't play with S&D on, because I feel the AI doesn't use it effectively, but yeah, that can work. Though, it doesn't really apply to his game, as nobody even has roads, and won't for awhile.

 

[12padams]

Here's episode 11... Sorry but I didn't get to complete all the advice I have received thus far due to lack of time but I do move towards it. Oh and I know why my gold per turn went down dramatically (I didn't in the video). It's because the new cities are costing me a fortune in maintenance since they are across the sea. Oh and dotmap is alt x rather than cnrl x as I thought in the video. Anyway give it 5-6 hours to upload if it isn't viewable already.

Episode 11: http://youtu.be/6Q8tVh5FSes
Its time to expand... AGAIN! On the nearby continent we build our 5th and 6th cities "Adelaide" and "Perth" then upgrade our atlatl's to archers to help defend our new cities. We aim to expand our borders in hope to get some fish for our cities which will ultimately lead to us gaining access to powerful units called "Koa's" but sadly don't make that goal this episode.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@12padams


Link to video.

*smacks head* its Ba-Lu-Ga not Bell-Ga for "Beluga". Apparently you need this song to help you remember.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Oh man... the civ in second place...he's got pottery already. That's not so good. All he needs to do to get to masonry now (not sure if he's gunning for it, but...) is get mining, and masonry itself. Okay, revised plan of action...

GET TO MASONRY AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.

It was a very big shame you spent almost twenty turns getting techs you didn't need. Think, if you had saved those twenty turns for pottery, you would have already had it by now. Pottery allows you to build the great bath of mohenjo-daro. This is a great wonder which makes all cities you found start off with two population instead of one. Yeah. Hopefully, you'll be able to build it before he does. But he has a head start.

Well, that's what you get for researching worthless techs.

You really put Perth too close to Brisbane. It has several squares of overlap. It's...an alright spot, considering the nearness of the Maori cities, and the resources...but I think I would've put it one more square to the east. Just make sure it's very well defended by the end of the next episode.

I don't know how to deal with rogues in your city, sorry. I do know, that the fact that the egyptians don't have any dogs...well, that is a godsend. Your rogue will have free reign to ravage their improvements. That stack of twenty units she has will just sit there and watch in horror as he pillages all their improvements. Do it. Weaken her economy for the inevitable assault later on.

Please, please, please do not automate your workers. They do stupid stuff. You have lots of land left to improve. Build lumberjacks on every forest/bamboo, except if they're on hills. Currently, I'm pretty sure your workers are just wasting time doing stupid stuff over in Brisbane. They need to go and improve the resources around Perth.

One of your biggest problems is that you never pay attention to the information being displayed at the top of the screen at the start of each turn. Not a single time have you noticed that wonders are gone. Ragnar even just got the Moai statues. Also, it tells you when people have resources to trade. The greeks were offering valuable lemons, which would help with the diseases in your cities, and yet you didn't even notice. Pay attention, ALWAYS, to the information in the top of the screen.

The demographics screen is in the top left, between the victory conditions and BUG options button. It's arguably the most important screen in the game, as it will show you how you compare in detail to the other civs.

You're doing alright. You're fairly good at getting the buildings you need. That national horse breeder was fairly useless though, for 22 turns of work. You didn't need it to make hore units, I'm fairly sure.

I think you have one last pair of war galleys near Canberra doing nothing. I'd send them up north of Perth, in the waters.

You need to learn your shortcuts better. You always click the sleep button when you want a unit to wait until next turn, and this is a bad idea, as you forget about them that way. Want a unit to wait for orders until next turn? Just press the spacebar. Also, pressing c will automatically focus the camera on the unit currently asking for orders. This will help with the constant scrolling back and forth.

You finally, finally, finally got the master hunter. Haha, I can hardly believe it. Send your last two scouts, one's southwest of Canberra and Sydney, and the other's near Scandinavia, back to your cities to finally upgrade them to hunters. The time for hunting land animals is pretty far gone, but upgrading them will help with what's left.

You see how many sea animals you're getting now? One after the other, they just throw themselves at you? More science, more food, more culture? If you had played your scouts smart MUCH earlier than you had been, it would have been the same case for land animals. Remember this next game.

Oh, and I don't think you've EVER even looked at what your leader's traits are. Please, next game, go into the civilopedia, and analyze what his traits are. I...think you're Menzies..? I don't even know. I do know that you have the protective trait, though.

That's about all for now. I might have more advice later.

 

[Koshling]

National horse breeder just allow you to build horse units in a city that doesn't have a horse resource in its vicinity, so it should be built in some city that definitely does NOT have horses.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@12padams

Yeah I think that city can already get horses since they are only a few tiles a way which makes it a waste of a national wonder. You should build it on one of the cities over on the eastern land. Since I do not see any horses there.

 

[wolfensoul9]

@12padams

Yeah I think that city can already get horses since they are only a few tiles a way which makes it a waste of a national wonder. You should build it on one of the cities over on the eastern land. Since I do not see any horses there.

Yes, this is a good idea. But it can seriously wait. Seriously.

Also...now that you have the master hunter building...if you build a hunter in Canberra...I'm pretty sure he'll have enough exp to get artic combat. Whether or not it actually protects against tundra damage, I'm not sure. It'd be nice if you could check.

Also, in regards to civics... you'll be able to switch to subsistence with the completion of pottery, which will make your cities grow even faster. It comes at the cost of a very, very small decrease in production. Seriously, it'll only be two hammers tops. I'd say it's definitely worth it. Mining will get you the metals currency civic. This will put a nice dent in that deficit you're running, as well as a small boost to your science. Next episode will be a good time to show off the "switch into multiple civics at one time, rather than switching into one civic multiple times" effect. Namely, waiting to switch to both of the new civics at once, rather than switching to subsistence, waiting the anarchy out, then switching to metals once mining is done. Basically, switching into multiple civics at once is more anarchy-efficient. I'd like you to demonstrate that next episode.

After reviewing the pink civ in second place's techs by looking through the past few episodes (what civ is it, by the way? Can't read it.), it seems like he has megafauna and camel domestication on you, and will get pottery next turn, while you have archery, naval warfare, and caste on him. Those techs of yours are far more expensive than what he has on you, so you are ahead. But it is worrisome that he will get pottery before you. I hope he isn't trying to get mesopotamianism, or worse, masonry. If only you had not spent so many turns on worthless techs...

By the way, sorry for inundating you with walls of advice. I just can't help my natural tendency to try and make things as efficiently running as possible.

 

[Koshling]

@12padams - could you post the save game from between episodes 10 and 11 please (i.e. - the save you started with at the start of E11). I want to look into some AI behavior I saw in E11 that didn't seem right.

 

[12padams]

@12padams - could you post the save game from between episodes 10 and 11 please (i.e. - the save you started with at the start of E11). I want to look into some AI behavior I saw in E11 that didn't seem right.

Sadly I've only got the saves for beginning of episode 8 and beginning of episode 12... Do you want any of those?

P.s I'll save each episode savefile separately from now

P.p.s episode 12 will be recorded in 2 hours and uploaded in 12 hours