CBob01 AWM Training Day Game

[Phaedo]

The reason I asked about turns is that we are on turn 36 now. If we aren't going to fiddle with turns to get it even, I thik I'll take 9 turns to take it to turn 45. It's easier to keep track of turns that end in 5 or 0

Oh, and don't worry, I'll certainly ask if I need help . I guess asking advice on trades won't be required eh?

I 'll try to get to it tomorrw

 

[Bucephalus]

How many cities will we need walls in? Are they worth the cost of building the GW versus walls in those cities?

But isn't the advantage with the GW that it gives you walls where you want them, when you want them, ie. the front line cities? If you build walls, by the time you have suppressed the resistance, and then built them, the front line will have moved on. Instant walls give somewhere for injured units to heal in comparitive safety; it gives Med. Inf. the same defensive ability as a pike, so fewer defensive units will be needed. And it lasts a long time before obsolescence.

 

[Aabraxan]

Thanks, everyone. I was pleased at how I played, but was afraid that I'd overlooked something. (You know, like when you think you knew everything on a test and get a D-). Glad to see I didn't embarrass myself on these turns!

Research: I'm going to put my vote on Wheel-Masonry-Alpha. Horses, walls, dinghys. It looks like Wheel is pretty much taking the day on what follows WC. I think we need walls after that. Almost every Hittite that I killed was from a defensive posture. We're not ready to go on the offensive. We have to survive long enough to get ready.

Ordinarily, I don't build any spears, or very few. This isn't an ordinary game. This is AW. Our cities will be under constant siege. Spears are cheaper defenders than swords. We're going to need them.

And as for the sugar, I like sugar. Doesn't it add food and gold? That said, I am not sure off the top of my head where we should settle and in what order. I'll take a look at it some other time. Not up to it right now.

Same with Wonders. The twin Greats both sound great and both would be very helpful. I'm just not fit to decide which I want right now.

I played a couple of games as the Hittites when I first started. I haven't looked at the numbers since then, but as a player, I thought their UU stinks.

And I've got to say . . . AW is very, very exciting. It's also way out of my comfort zone right now.

 

[Aabraxan]

-How much will it cost us to self research Monarchy? Especially if we are having cash issues.

As of the 2310 BC save, for Monarchy, we are lacking: Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, and Polytheism.
I'm not sure I really understand how tech costs work, but looking at CAII, from my last save at 2310 BC, here's what I get:

Estimated Tech Costs:
Ceremonial Burial: 45
Mysticism: 106
Polytheism: 320
Monarchy: 640
Total: 1111

(I've intentionally left WC out of this calculation because we'll have it in the IBT after the save. In the box below the tech list, CAII says that it will cost 1122 total to research Monarchy, but that includes 11 beakers left on WC and I'm not entirely certain that the 11 beaker figure is accurate. That would be two turns of research, and we only had one turn left on the 2310 save.)

 

[CommandoBob]

Estimated Tech Costs:
Ceremonial Burial: 45
Mysticism: 106
Polytheism: 320
Monarchy: 640
Total: 1111

Tech costs decrease as more people know about that tech. Ceremonial Burial is so cheap because it is widely known. Poly and Monarchy look like they are still unknowns. In time they will be cheaper.

Another factor is how many beakers per turn we are generating towards science. This is also on the Technology tab of CAII. If it is much more than 11, maybe we should consider learning Mysticism next and try to trade for CBurial with our next new contact. Or we lower our science to where we still get CBurial in 4 turns, game minimum, and add some gold to our treasury.

I am not sure how tech costs are initially determined by the game. Map size has something to do with it and there is also a value that can be adjusted before the game is created that affects tech costs. I've read about it but never used it.

 

[TimBentley]

I am not sure how tech costs are initially determined by the game. Map size has something to do with it and there is also a value that can be adjusted before the game is created that affects tech costs. I've read about it but never used it.

lurker's comment: See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29485. I think all that's changed is added difficulties with their cost factors.

 

[Phaedo]

Halfway through my set a dark blue warrior appeared and this happened

We want it, and we can use the cash so I figure I'll go for it. This is the best deal I could get. They wouldn't go for the two techs for all our cash so...

The rest of the turnset will happen after work and I'll be able to post tonight.

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Just a quick rule of thumb I learned from TGOM* when trading

• Do we need it?
• Can we afford it?
• Can it be traded profitably?

If one of the qualities is present, reject it.
If two are present, depends on how much you are trading for it/need it.
If all three are present, then do the deal.

*TGOM - all rights reserved

IIRC, thats how it goes...

 

[Phaedo]

I have that pasted on my pc. We need it (to get to walls) and we can afford it (we actually make a profit) so that's why I thought I'd take it

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Well, you're playing the game, so just giving some tips.

I have that pasted on my pc. We need it (to get to walls) and we can afford it (we actually make a profit) so that's why I thought I'd take it

Cool. Didnt know anyone had tips with them at all times.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Can you get Ceremonial Burial?

 

[Aabraxan]

TGOM's rules sum it up nicely.
We need it.
We can afford it.
We will not be able to trade it profitably.

Nonetheless, we need walls. And I'd say sooner rather than later. Whether or not the Hittites, Americans and Germans have IW also plays a role in the equation, because once Hammi has it, he's probably going to trade it to them. Given that IW is on the table, I think I'd rather trade it for Masonry than Ceremonial Burial.

Edit: Obviously, I'd rather have both, but it looks like you've tried that.

 

[Norton II]

Looks like a good trade to me. As mentioned before, it fulfills the first two rules for tech trades, and the third isn't as much of a factor in AW since trading opportunities will be limited anyway. In fact, I suspect we won't be doing any more trading for quite a while; we've already met four other civs, so it seems likely to me (though far from certain) that the other three are on the other continent. And yes, we definitely need walls more than temples. I don't think cultural pressure will be a problem for a little while, especially since our nearest neighbors are neither religious nor scientific.

 

[Phaedo]

The Great Russian Conquest
Goals:
Get the a city on the Hill with Iron.
Start researching the Wheel when the time comes.
Build a quick spear to defend yellow, buils as many warriors as possible
before the Iron is hooked up then switch to spears

And we're off...

2310 BC Turn 36
Have a little looksee around the empire. Notice our Lux slider is at 10%.
No need for that so I turn it down to 0% and we are losing 1 gpt.
Moscow looks to be in good shape with growth and the settler timed out at 3
turns.
SSP can't grow past 3 (with an irrigated desert) until she expans. Not much to
MM here.

IBT The Yanks move East threatening SSP. I don't care what CAII says,
the Americans always are agressive when at war. The workers finish irrigating the desert.

2270 BC Turn 37
We learn IW and switch to Wheel. We are losing 1 gpt and that will probably go up to 2 for a turn until the new city is built.We have 29 gold so I decide not to change it. We can afford it (for now).
Move Worker01 to the BG east of Moscow and Work03 to Moscow.
Warrior who was there for protection goes back to SSP for defence against
the Yanks. SSP built a warrior so we now have three there to defend.
Send Worker02 to the BG west of Moscow. Once worked, that'll get us an extra gold and then Yellow can use the BG that is already developed.
Send War06 south. Getting on that Mt and being able to see what the blue meanies are doing would be nice (Fortified makes him better than a spear )
Scout goes south. Don't really know what to do with him but if he could sneak
past the Hittites, maybe he could find a hut (fingers crossed)
Abe seems to have built a city west of us. We could steal the wine from him with a quick city but it probably won't happen.

IBT Americans Attack! We lose a warrior and the American is redlined.
A second warrior attacks and dies giving us a vetran . Conscript stays put.
A Dark blue warrior moves onto the Mt I was hoping to get to.

2230 BC Turn 37
Seems the warrior is a Babylonian. They'll trade us IW for Masonary and 10G.
We need it and we'll get a little cash so I take it.
Send Worker03 to the BG with 02 to help develop it.
Our scout keeps moving south nd Warrior06 starts heading back to Moscow

IBT Americans attack SSP again and kills our vetran warrior . Theirs is
redlined

2190 BC Turn 38
Moscow builds a settler and starts on a warrior (might as well get another
one as it will be built the same turn we build on yellow).
Forgot to declare against the Babylonians so do it first thing.
Our settler moves towards the yellow dot.
Worker starts roading. The scout keeps moving south and is on the cow south
of the jungle.
Warrior06 keeps on his trek to Moscow. One of our warriors in Moscow heads to SSP to reinforce it.
Take a chance and attack the redlined American with our warrior in SSP . Win!

IBT The other US warrior attacks our newly victorious warrior and dies. Ours
becomes vetran. The German archer moves towards undefended SSP

2150 BC Turn 39
SSP build a warrior and starts on a spear (10 turns)
New Warrior fortifies in SSP our warrior from Moscow gets there and our 2/4 vet moves back. 3 units again in SSP. I know that was a real chance but it worked.
Workers 02 and 03 start mine
Scout moves South busting fog and the settler reaches yellow

IBT Barb moves next to our scout. Kraut attacks and kills a warrior in SSP
without taking any losses

2150 BC Turn 40
Moscow builds a warrior and he fortifies. Start sending another warrior to SSP
I'm really worried about that German archer. He could take SSP out. There's
a full strength warrior and a 2/4 vet there. A 1 attack vs 1 def is better than
2 attack vs 1 def. Maybe I should attack him. Decide to think about it until
the end of turn
Found Iron Hill and get the citizen working the mined BG
Warrior06 reaches Moscow and fortifies. Our vet warrior in SSP fortifies.
Scout moves south to the hill to get away from the barb. End up next to a
barb camp but that should be OK as there is only 1 Barb there and he shouldn't attack and abandon the camp. See the Bab's border.
Worker01 starts mining.
Well, it's decesion time. What to do about that archer...Decide to wait 1 turn
until our other warrior gets there. If I lose, the archer could take SSP on
the IBT.

IBT Kraut attacks again and kills another warrior losing 1 HP

2070 BC Turn 41
Scout moves South away from the Barb pursuing him
Warrior from Moscow gets to SSP. Our vet is healed up so now is the time to
get rid of that annoying archer.
It was a nail biter, but our vet wins and is redlined

IBT Barb keeps chasing our scout

2030 BC Turn 42
Scout moves south again and see Nineveh
Workers02 and 03 move to road to our pink dot and to connect the BG worker01 is on.
Our vet moves back to SSP and the other warrior fortifies.

IBT Barb keeps chasing out scout (which is good really as we are leading him
to Nineveh. Another Barb moves to the gold west of Iron Hill.

1990 BC Turn 43
Scout moves W then S to get away from the barb
Wourkers start roads adn our vet fortifies.

IBT Hittite archer moves onto the game

1950 BC Turn 43
Moscow builds spear and starts another one (now size 4). The spear moves
towards IronHill.
The spear will reach IH next turn. Can't send another warrior to IH for support without causing disorder.
Scout finds Ashur and skirts the Bab border

IBT Barb moves to the hill north of Iron Hill

1910 BC Turn 44
Spear fortifies in Iron Hill
Scout moves SW and finds the sea.

IBT Another Barb moves up into the Lake Mountains S of the Gold

1870 BC Turn 45 (My last one)
We learn the wheel and start Alph (in 7). We have horses SE of Moscow!
Moscow grows to 5 and I hire a beakerhead to stop the potential disorder (this can be changed). If we use the lux slider we can keep the disorder at bay but Alphabet goes to 8.
Workers start mining the square SE of Moscow
Scout backtracks to start a spying mission into Babylonian land

And my turnset ends.
Iron Hill and Moscow will make spears next turn. Moscow is ready to pump
out another settler.
The German archer put a beating on us but SSP end up in the clear.
We have two sources of hourses near. I think we will need another dot map
as there are things going on. Getting the horses would be nice, so would stealing the wines from Abe. Perhaps growth should be our main concern. It's hard to know what to do with this AW thing.

Barbs are encroaching but we are well defended against them. It would be nice to have an offencive unit or two to deal with invading units. Warriors just don't cut it anymore. Walls would be nice but I don't think they are immediately necessary.
All and all, I feel pretty good about the set. I got lucky against the Americans
and maybe I shouldn't have taken the chance but it ended up being mportant.
I don't know if SSP could have survived a two-pronged attack.

Here's how our empire stands

Here are the Babs down south

And our research stands thus:

And the save

 

[Phaedo]

Oh yea, our military stands thus:
5 warriors (1 vet 1 elite)
1 Spear (2 more next turn)
3 workers
1 scout

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

lurker's comment: There's 2 FP tiles within your mosaic, but you let it grow at 10 turns intervals? This is a crime in many countries and a sin for most religions, you know ...

This and going all out to explore early in AW games

 

[Norton II]

@Phaedo: Looks good. If I'm counting right, we killed as many units as we lost; that ratio should tip more in our favor once we have swordsmen and barracks. Also, I second the motion for a new dotmap. I still say we should settle Pink Dot next (after getting rid of that Hittite archer), but after that, our priorities may have changed. Of course, if we want the wine, we'll have to get it very soon.

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment: There's 2 FP tiles within your mosaic, but you let it grow at 10 turns intervals? This is a crime in many countries and a sin for most religions, you know ...

This and going all out to explore early in AW games

Gotta agree. We've got three foes right now, we don't need any more for a while. If they find us, they find us. But let's not make our lot any harder.

Having said that, we could still use the scout to explore around us and the gaps between our foes. He just doesn't need to be too curious.

As for Mosaic Moscow, well, micro-managing is a learned skill and we have not addressed that at all. Moscow should be growing faster, but when it's your first time at AW and the AIs are starting to swarm......point made, lesson learned, and thanks.

Good notes, Phaedo, and good playing.

I think we do need a new dotmap. If we get wines, it won't be until the end of the next turnset. But if we can make settlers in MM and spears elsewhere, we can send spears out in advance to claim our land (wines and Pink Dot come to mind).

Not sure if it the best thing, but my gut reaction is to claim the wines, and the city sites to the south and then concentrate on military build up. We need the wines to keep our citizens sloshed and docile. With our military we can keep the southern city sites clear of any Hittite infestation. Three cities, if not more, we might be able to get built in the next 20 turns or so. I think we could squeeze our four settlers in the next two turnsets. Not so sure about four cities.

 

[CommandoBob]

The Roster:.

• Aabraxan
• Phaedo - just played
• D'Artagnan59 - UP!
• CivActuary - on deck
• Norton II - warming up
• CommandoBob

 

[Aabraxan]

Nice job, Phaedo.

Well-played and well-documented.

I think Beorn-el-Feared is right about getting MM to grow faster. I should have attended to that as soon as I got the FPs irrigated. Lesson learned.

I also agree that it's time for a new dotmap. As for settling order, my gut is to claim the wines, as well. We've got iron and won't need the horses for a while.

When do we want to start barracks?