CCM1 (epic mod)

I just want to say this is indeed an epic Mod! :D I'm loving it so far.

The only real quip I have is about military alliances and mutual protection pacts :/. In reason why they were taken out?

Cardiac Depress, thank you for your kind words. :)

CCM can be played with up to 31 civs -and more of These civs are surviving longer than in standard Civ 3. Therefore the turntimes are interrupted with tons of popups asking for military alliances (the same for maptrading and communication trading). They are out to speed up the game. Mutual protection pacts are in the game (coming with the tech Nationalism) and do the job of military alliances much better as the alliances themselves. They can trigger real world wars in era 3 and 4.
 
Nice, thanks for the quick response! :D

Yes, that makes total sense. In vanilla Conquests I got enough people asking for territory maps... Oh god, 31 civs asking for territory map every turn would be torture. Yes, you're right.

Keep up the fantastic work with the mod
 
Thanks for explaining mate,
I knew you had tested the different stuff and had a very good reason for doing it this way.

But I will ask you about Missiles. I see that late subs can carry 2-3 missile, but I think no surface ship.
I was thinking if the AI really use the cruise missiles that much, and even load them on subs. What I tried out was almost the same you did for aircraft carriers. The subs of today might be the strongest offensive ship afloat and why not give them a bombard range similar to cruise missile, which we know the AI uses. It will be very similar to your carriers, and then one could have some of the newer surface ship also have very much longer range. All to play out the very important long-range cruise missile attacks prior to any attacks.

The missiles on the subs would then be for nukes only.
A little note on the present situation of sub bugs. I tried out the modern subs not to be invisible any more, stopping that surprise war in our nuclear age. After all the big nations of today keeps very good eyes on nearly all sub moves around the globe. In contrast I have the nuke sub the strongest ship in attack, since why I think that´s what they truly are.
Earlier subs is invisible and have stealth attack, which is the road to go I think.

BBs have always been the best but today they are out-of-date so the SSN sub is the new king of the sea.

As a former ex-swabby, I'll have to respectively disagree with your theseis. May I recommend you take a look at Janes Fighting Ships from your local librairy? or perhaps do a bit of research on fast attack subs and CGN class surface vessals (and I don't intend this to come across as snarky, so apologies if it does)?

To summarize:

Subs; Both Sharks and Boomers carry cruise missiles for a variety of missions, and are standard compliment on both classes of subs.

The subs of today might be the strongest offensive ship afloat and why not give them a bombard range similar to cruise missile, which we know the AI uses.

Hmnn, let's clarify this a bit. Subs are the strongest vessal in their designated role, which is stealth. They are designed to stay hidden, be sneaky, deliver their payload, and get the hell out. As for bombard, I think you may be confused a bit with the details of that promo. Bombard hammers continuously at a target, which goes against subs SOP. Subs with cruise missiles are used as a precision strike platform. Want to take out that SCUD missile launcher 200nm inland in rough terrain? then there ya go. Their main weakness; they have minimal defenses and ASW training is a priority in any nations training.

The missiles on the subs would then be for nukes only.

Disagree with this. Subs are multi-role weapon platforms, and there armaments reflect that. I would tailor their weapons to reflect their era. WW I and II, depth charges, torps, and surface guns. Modern era should have the cruise missiles.

A little note on the present situation of sub bugs. I tried out the modern subs not to be invisible any more, stopping that surprise war in our nuclear age. After all the big nations of today keeps very good eyes on nearly all sub moves around the globe.

Yes and no. The major powers of today have a general location of where potential enemy subs may be. However, today's sub tactics take into account satellite tracking, SOSA, and other available intel. Any sub commander worth his salt knows this, and follows doctrine designed to counter this. Believe me when I tell you this ( I was an Ops-Spec in the Navy), sub-hunting is perhaps one of the most tense and highly detailed jobs in any countries navy, and includes a lot of intel and data processing.

In contrast I have the nuke sub the strongest ship in attack, since why I think that´s what they truly are.

If your talking in terms of payload because of nukes, then I would agree with you. Otherwise, surface ships still reign supreme.

BBs have always been the best but today they are out-of-date so the SSN sub is the new king of the sea.[/QUOTE]

Erm.... Disagree. May I recommend you read up on the Arleigh Burke class CGN? or the Russian equivilant? Or the Lincoln class CVN's? Or the railgun and laser class surface class vessals (current proto-types are in service) that are being experimented with? All though I will grant you that the new Seawolf ( and it's top secret successor) are pretty epic.
 
Clamel and Drakarska, thank you both very much for your interesting input about modern submarines. :)

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Now I have to do an important announcement for the CCM thread:

On 17-03-2014 I made a new upload of the CCM mainfile and the CCM biq v1.8, to fix several reported errors. Downloads starting on 17-03-2014 have the new fixed files and entries. For all downloads before 17-03-2014, here is a link for a small patch: http://download.civforum.de/civ3/CCM-Betatestpatch.rar

Additionally you have to download the new CCM v1.8 biq again, if your download was before 17-03-2014.

The new mainfile and the biq (or the patch and the biq) contain the following fixes:

a) mainfile:

- Missing arrow in techtree era3 to tech Combustion added
- Mogami-SM.pcx picture added
- Missing sounds in the INI for the Early Submarine added

b) Biq:

- The Corporation - 2x Work Rate is checked now
- Apprentice- now is upgrading to Partisan
- Monarchy - unit support set to 2
- German Infantry now linked to proper PediaIcon-entry (so the unit can be found even when PTW is not installed)

A special "thank you very much" to pascalis, who reported many of these errors at CFC.:)
 
As the AI has many problems with carriers and especially to base aircraft on these ships, the concept for carriers in CCM is different. They have a long-range bombardement based on factors of the planes on board of those carriers (range, bomb-load, numbers) and can additionally keep a smaller number of real aircraft on board. The attack animation was changed to starting aircraft of those carriers and the attack sound to the sound of attacking aircraft. Of course these planes cannot be shot down, but in my eyes this is only a very small price to have carriers for the AI in game.

This is good, AI carriers are wasteful for them otherwise, In Civ 2, I first noticed in a big way carriers would go one direction, their aircraft another and because they were now out of range, AI planes would run out fuel and crash. I do not think in any version of Civ has this been resolved satisfactorily. Even in Civ 5 from what I gather, the AI builds carriers and ultimately has no planes to stock them with. Its too bad empty carriers cannot "regenerate" aircraft that are 'tethered' to them in some fashion to avoid the AI losing aircraft to running out of gas( I think a Command and Conquer version had that feature for carriers).
 
Civinator, just started a v1.8 (dled Sunday, so no bugs...) game that I grafted onto El Mencey's Giga map. Doing Carthage. Game is smooth. I love it.

Thanks a mil...
 
So getting along with this great mod, but I have a slight question I found a bit strange.

Getting into Age Discovery (Era2) I started Alchemy as a first Tech, that put me directly on to Gunpowder and the first fire-arms (Naturally I have to find Saltpeter).
What makes this is a question that the Tech Renaissance is "further" away and needed to first pick up Theology before the chance to get a Landsknecht or Late Pikeman.

These two blokes are at 1/3 and much weaker than the first arquebuiser (2/4). I felt that getting Renaissance should clearly be ahead of the possibility to get the first firearms.

I´m sure I missing something, so please enlight me please.
I do know that it might be harder to get that Arquebuiser, but with fluke I might get saltpeter and the Landsknecht is out of the race before he made it to the gate.

Alchemy perhaps should have been based on Renaissance then Gunpowder. I know that then one perhaps should have be named Alchemy for Chemistry. My two cent.

Strictly thinking you might handle the Arquebuiser as the very early hand cannon and not the matchlock, as then it´s more in time. However then I doubt that guy is even as powerful as the professional Landsknecht. Landsknecht and Swiss Pikemen dominated the battlefield before the matchlock I think.

That made it three cent. Sorry !!!
Now I might get a slap on my hand again like previous on naval matters, but that old stuff was strictly thinking in game-terms NOT in real life. It would have been a dream to be able to set-up the game as Drakaska instructed, BUT it´s still a stupid AI (if any) and most things are for tricking the game engine to handle units.
Real life modern battle, both sea land and air, are much to difficult for Civ3.
 
Sorry for the delay in the answer, but my time is limited and I even don´t know, if I can answer this all correctly in the short amount of time I have for it now. In any case, thank you very much for your Input. :)

In my eyes era 2 in CCM is a very interesting era, as it offers four different approaches to start into this era: You can start with "Engineering" or "Theology" or "Alchemy" or "Navigation". Each of these entries offers a different access to that era 2. Your start with "Alchemy" is only one of these multiple entries.

The start with "Alchemy" only makes sense, if you have a real chance to build the wonder "Philosopher´s Stone". On the other side a player who starts with the Tech "Engineering", than rushes a windmill in a productive City, can have a better chance to finish that wonder before you, if he aquires that tech or does that research as the second researched tech of that era.

The next step in the research you did, from Alchemy to Gunpowder is a "full risk step". Without the resource saltpeter, you gain next to nothing for your research (only a little better coastal ship) and on the other side you disable your Siege Workshop and stop your autoproduction of catapults and later trebuchets.

Now to the comparison between the "Late Pikeman" and the "Arquebusier". The "late Pikeman" has the same stats as the "Pikeman" of era 1, coming with Feudalism. The only - but important - difference is, that this unit doesn´t need access to a strategic resource.

Of course the states 2A, 4D are better than 1A, 3 D. But both units are defensive units and the late pikeman can be built in places where an arquebusier cannot been built and the unit is cheaper than the arquebusier. This can be very important in newly found cities that come under attack, especially when most units of that era have the option to pillage roads and therfore to cut off the supply of saltpeter or in newly found cities on islands. The difference between both units is, that sometimes you can build a late pikeman that can help you in the defense of a city, but you cannot build the arquebusier. So both units have their reason to be included in that time. For the offensive you have better units than late pikemen or arquebusiers in that era.

Now to the timeframe of the techs "Alchemy, Gunpowder, and Renaissance".

Here the first problem is that there are different understandings of the term "Renaissance". There is the "Renaissance of the 12th century" and there is the the Renaissance starting in Italy, that spanned the period roughly from the 14th to the 17th century.

Alchemy is a much older "tech". The Wikipedia states: The introduction of alchemy to Latin Europe occurred on 11 February 1144, with the completion of Robert of Chester's translation of the Arabic Book of the Composition of Alchemy. Even without fixing that tech to that date, I think it can be stated, that Alchemy is an older tech than the "Italian Renaissance" (if the last one can be even called a tech).

The arquebuse was introduced in the 15th century and therefore somewhere in the periode described above, the invention of Gunpowder is older (invention in the 9th century in China and the earliest Western accounts of gunpowder appear in texts written by English philosopher Roger Bacon in the 13th century).

And now the real reason for doing the techtree of CCM in era 2 the way it is: Sandris made a lot of wonderful units and I wanted to have them all in my mod without enlarging era 2. :D
 
Civinator,
you couldn´t explained it any better.
I thank you for this outstanding lecture and I do understand much better how you had your brain in high gear during that process. I´m impressed :goodjob:

Now I did find saltpeter and got a colony that gave me some gunpowder blokes. Not to say the road could be cut, but that is what you said a gamble.

On the naval side I was a little disapointed over the Cog. Without looking I upgraded my merchantships and since I had a little bay dividing my kingdom with only coastal water I ended up taking longer time with the Coq to cross the strait.
Strategic thinking I should have kept my merchantships.

IMHO perhaps the Merchantship should have remained in the building queue as a faster coastal ship. The Cog for longer journeys and a better gamble to cross open ocean a little faster.
Also I am a bit concerned over that the Galleass is staying on all the way until the Steamships era, and upgrading first to the Paddle Steamship I think.
Surely the Galleass was gone before 19th century. Shouldn´t there be a ship-class in between these two ships. Galleass - PaddleSteam ?

I´m sure you got an even better answer to this, and I will love to hear it when you got some time over. It will be educating to be sure my friend.
 
Wow civinator you got in this mod everything i wanted to have in a mod. Its perfect! I think im done trying to make my own mod when i can just use this and its a finished mod. The main reason i wanted to create my mod for my own entertainment was so that i could know the rules, but i guess i'll just read your guide cuz this is too good to pass.

I only have a concern... Does the AI know how to use the flag units to get the bonus gold? In my experience testing this:

1- They will not move an auto-produced flag (princess) unit to their capital from another one of their cities.

2- They will not 'escort' a flag (princess) unit to their capital if they didnt capture it themselves. I put a Spanish princess outside Madrid, and a warrior came out to fortify it, but didnt escort. After 30 turns it was still sitting there with no escort.

Also will the AI choose different government options or will they just go for the same most 'efficient' one?
 
Thank you both very much for your kind words about CCM. :)

On the naval side I was a little disapointed over the Cog. Without looking I upgraded my merchantships and since I had a little bay dividing my kingdom with only coastal water I ended up taking longer time with the Coq to cross the strait.

So in that special situation the cog is slower than the merchantship, please don´t forget that the Cog can transport 3 units while the merchantship does only two. To offer here different ships to handle that special situation would be too much for the AI.

Also I am a bit concerned over that the Galleass is staying on all the way until the Steamships era, and upgrading first to the Paddle Steamship I think.
Surely the Galleass was gone before 19th century. Shouldn´t there be a ship-class in between these two ships. Galleass - PaddleSteam ?

Yes, I agree. There is a gap between the galleass and the torpedoboat (that in reality is a British WWI destroyer). In the next version of CCM there is a smaller version of the frigate (sail), the corvette (sail) that can move over coastal and seawater without risk, coming with naval power and closing that gap, as the galleasses can upgrade to corvettes. The torpedoboats/WWI destroyers in the next version can also move in coastal and sea waters without risk.

I only have a concern... Does the AI know how to use the flag units to get the bonus gold? In my experience testing this:

The AI uses the flag units but on random maps not very well. Therefore I set the bonus in CCM when a "supplyshipment" is escorted to the capital to "only" 25 gold as this is exactly the sum when a barbarian village is conquered and doesn´t do too much harm in gameplay. On the other side, even 25 gold in the earlier phases of the game are very welcome.

There is one scenario with a small worldmap, where this fuction works astonishingly well. This is AoI (Age of Imperialism), done by El Justo. For a big number of civers, this is the best scenario ever done for Civ 3. At present this scenario cannot be downloaded, as the SOC server that hosted that scenario is closed.

Also will the AI choose different government options or will they just go for the same most 'efficient' one?

Yes the AI uses different governments and it is funny that it seems, the human player can have an influence on the governments the AI does use. Per example, if I take the way in dificulty levels up to emperor, to change to republic and later democracy, there will be alozt of other civs, that try that way, too. When I play more like a warmonger, the AI also reflects this in their governmnets, even for civs I don´t have any contact yet. The first observation can be done easily by looking in the military (!) advisor, the second observation can be done in Debug Mod.
 
Civinator I played your MoD and so far its awesome. Thanks for making this mod. I just wanted to share something funny. I was going thru the civilopedia and i found this sign saying 'Dont Click', well you know people :lol: The first thing i did was click it out of curiosity, and i crashed an unsaved game :hammer2:. I was so into what i was doing i forgot to save :D
 
Yes the Cog could handle 3 units, but still the penalty on coastal terrain makes it twice longer to reach my peninsula area. It would have been greater if some sort of ship in that period could be available to handle basic shore/coastal trade, perhaps a variant of a trading galleass (perhaps a Galiot or Schooner) that should be better rowed/sailed along the coast. Eventually that lineage could end up in WW2 classic Landing crafts that move fast along coastal terrain. Kind of intriguing thought. Perhaps not for the AI but for sure something for the human. Very fast movement along the coast, almost like a paradrop behind enemy lines.
Plenty of ship styles and names to bridge the lineage from Galiot/Schooners to landing crafts I think.
Try out http://www.ageofsail.net/aoshipty.asp

The Cog lineage should just be a new revolutionary tech that forces the AI to upgrade the Merchandship lineage and not getting the Cog right off. I´m sure the AI would start building Cogs and then be forced to keep that lesser valued lineage of coastalships just for upgrades.

I know increasing basic ship movement might change the game in that it´s easier to traverse large oceans. Everything is surely a trade-off.
Just some thoughts, probably wrong ones ;-(

I like the Galleass upgrade that you think implementing. A sloop-of-war /corvette at that period before getting MTB or TBD are very nice to hear. Might even include that upgrade chain myself in the present version, just to test out.

Just another thought on pre-made maps. Since it´s a bit before you present your own world map, I would like to know what world map today could be best to start on (and perhaps place the different civs). It should be the bigger kind and the question could be about resources for one.
What problem might pop up in that issue. Hope to see the supplyshipment perhaps solved whatever, like the brilliant AOI scenario.

Got to mention a problem I have (vision wise). Seeing lonely catapult "walking" around without escort and even worse seeing them escort settlers. I know the AI problems with artillery and that IMHO surely is the biggest problem with Civ. No good way at all to solve this I guess.
 
Another mind nut.
It looks like something in the Civilopedia.txt is wrong with the Dromon.
Some proofreading have gone wrong perhaps
Looking like this in the area around.

****
#DESC_PRTO_Merchantship
^
^
^As early as 1350 BC, cargo ships like these transported goods as far north as Cornwall, England. Their hull shape changed little over the ages, though their size developed from 50 feet to about 180 feet at the climax of the Roman Empire. These ships would carry vast amounts of passengers and goods across the Mediterranean, chiefly grain from Africa to feed Rome. Early ships sported a single mast with a square sail in the middle of the hull, though later it became common to have another mast near the bow as well. Transports used sails only, since they didn't need the guarantee of speed and maneuverability supplied by rowing oars, but like all ancient vessels, they were steered by two oars at the stern.

zantine Dromons] are a type of galley with an enhanced offensive capability, as it can let loose a hot stream of "Greek Fire".
^
^The Dromon must end its turn in a $LINK<coastal=TERR_Coast> square or risk sinking in a $LINK<sea=TERR_Sea> or $LINK<ocean=TERR_Ocean> square.
^
^If $LINK<The Great Lighthouse=BLDG_Lighthouse> is built by your Civ, a Dromon may safely end turns at sea, but not ocean squares.
^
^Special Feature: $LINK<Lethal Sea Bombardment=GCON_Lethal_Sea_Bombardment>.
#DESC_PRTO_Dromon
^
^
^The dromon was the end result of Byzantine ingenuity applied to old Greek ship designs. Powered by rowers, its primary virtue was its versatility -- the wide, flat decks could be mounted with a variety of weapons. There were many classes of dromon, from light escort and reconnaissance designs to heavy warships. Dromons often included mini-forts made of wood from which marines could sally forth or fire bows, as well as catapults, rams, ballistae, and later, Greek fire launchers. These dangerous and
devastating primitive flamethrowers spelled death to enemies in an age where all ships were made of flammable wood and crew were constantly exposed on the upper decks.

#PRTO_Longship
^{Civs:} Only Scandinavia.
*****

Kind of not starting correctly with #PRTO_dromon and then in-game looks correct but are missing something about the Great Lighthouse and about Sea and Ocean movement. It works but shouldn´t without the proper start in the pedia ????
This line has been half-cut or something.

zantine Dromons] are a type of galley

doesn´t looks very correct, does it ?? Missing the start of the sentence I think.

Just off the bat, should all civs have Dromons ??
 
Civinator I played your MoD and so far its awesome. Thanks for making this mod. I just wanted to share something funny. I was going thru the civilopedia and i found this sign saying 'Dont Click', well you know people :lol: The first thing i did was click it out of curiosity, and i crashed an unsaved game :hammer2:. I was so into what i was doing i forgot to save :D

Hello.. you could have just click Enter repeatedly and fast until all winodws are closed.. next time just do that :P
 
Hi CCM Players: Concerning my game there has been great changes, After annexing Germany I am now inheriting chinese lands heheh... I got them trapped..
 
So something about Leaders,
I got my first one but still can´t figure out this.

I understood by reading that Armies can´t be created by leaders, however the button on building an army is visible and of course I clicked it. Well nothing I think, but the unit changed and got a new name. No army however.
In the editor Build Army is ticked for Leaders so I am confused.

Being in the capitol I can only Hurry Production, but nothing about Science. In editor the Finish improvement, Science and Army is ticked. Only Finish Improvement looking to work.

Whats the hick-up on this. Admiral Nelson waits in London on what to do :-) :confused:

If now this creation was a military leader it´s correct that he should only be able to hurry productions, but should you perhaps un-tick build army in special actions for Leaders ?

I´m sure this has been tested and discussed before in this thread, but I would like to check out what´s happening, so please Civinator :rolleyes:
 
Im beginning to get familiar with this mod, and i havent been able to figure out what happened here. The scandinavians were at peace with me, i moved my only defender out of a city to scout and it got attacked and killed by an invisible unit. While my city was undefended it suddenly turned to a scandinavian city. Was this the result of propaganda by them or an invisible unit capturing a city? I was still in the first era O.o ...
 
Im beginning to get familiar with this mod, and i havent been able to figure out what happened here. The scandinavians were at peace with me, i moved my only defender out of a city to scout and it got attacked and killed by an invisible unit. While my city was undefended it suddenly turned to a scandinavian city. Was this the result of propaganda by them or an invisible unit capturing a city? I was still in the first era O.o ...


Hi.. an Enslaver which is the earliest invisible unit has captured your city
 
clamel, in Standard C3C miltary great leaders (MGL) can only form armies or rush normal ´buildings and small wonders (SW). They cannot trigger a "Scientific Age". This is only possible for Scientific great leaders, that only can be received by a technological breakthrough in research. But even here the programming for the Scientific Age is broken. It only seems that you have triggered a Scientific Age if you have choosen that option for your SGL, but in reality you get nothing.

In CCM the MGL can only be used to rush a building or SW. The option to form an army is not possible in CCM, as armies in my eyes are considered a sort of exploit for the human player, as the AI cannot handle armies properly.

The "dummy"-setting for armies in CCM is needed, as the AI strategy for leaders needs both options (army and rush) triggered. If the leader would have been set to only rush buildings, the AI wouldn´t have any clue how to use that unit, as it doesn´t have the leader-strategy.

------------------------------------------

ZergMazter, as long as you think, you can move out your only defender of your city without a risk to loose that city, you are not familiar yet with this mod. :) You can do such negligences in standard Civ 3, in CCM you have a good chance to loose that city, as invisible AI enslavers and holy men can attack and conquer cities without a declaration of war (the same is not possible for human players due to the programming of Civ 3).
 
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