CCM1 (epic mod)

[Moosezilla]

I thought I had posted a reply here and poof it is not here.

 

[WildWeazel]

stream-of-consciousness feedback:

Playing as Rome, as I always do for my first game with a new mod. Backing off to Warlord because you scared me with the difficulty

I see that the setup screen defaults to 31 civilizations on a standard map. Is this just for flexibility, or do you recommend all civs on the map? Or what numbers for different sizes?

The pedia entry for the Prophet unit is confusing. The note at the top sounds like Israel can't get them, but then it says that the Temple of Solomon produces them.

Get rid of those Firaxis leaderheads animations!

Is "strategic bombing" actually precision bombing? Isn't that feature broken? (nevermind, I guess that was in vanilla)

I am utterly confused by the Catapult-Trebuchet-Musketman upgrade chain, especially since Trebuchets don't actually upgrade.

The double-extermination effect on later governments is very interesting. I will revolt with extreme caution.

I'm seeing a lot of names that are not quite right after translation from German. I could compile a list if you'd like.

I don't know what to research!

immobile units should not have the "go to" ability (apprentice)

Since the default "worker" starting unit is the only one of those you get, how about giving the poor guy a work rate bonus?

The small icon for Masonry doesn't look like masonry- or the large icon. Is that the right icon?

On a large map, the early game seems rather tedious without the ability to build workers and settlers. At the rate we're expanding, it's going to be the middle ages before international borders start colliding. Maybe the auto-production rates for those units should be increased for larger maps (this would require a tweaked biq, of course.)

I'm sure there's a good reason, but light brown civ-color for Rome seems odd.

I like the whale

just got my first Enslaver. Is there anything that can detect this guy? Why not give them Detect Invisible as well, so that you can either use them to enslave or to protect your own units from enslavement?

It's really not cool that barbarians can move on mountains. They just go there and fortify and I can't do anything about it.

Even with my research maxed and little micro-management I'm making quite a bit of money compared to a typical C3C game. Is that supposed to happen?

My only neighbor, Japan, is the most advanced civ on the map. Great.

Popped a free settler! That's suddenly much more exciting.

It's interesting that you can contact a new civilization via an invisible HN unit. Nothing to do with CCM, just interesting.

"Greetings! I am the Ruler of the Russians." Looks like some of the diplo script could use some work.

Enslavers make excellent scouts, as Scout units are practically useless on a map with barbarians.

That's all for now! Overall, I'm very impressed. I wish I had more time to explore the mod.

 

[ThERat]

@civinator

I reported it in my solo game thread, there seems to be a problem with dromon pathfinding. Do they not see other units as 3 of them ran into my ships declraing war on me.

 

[vmxa]

I am utterly confused by the Catapult-Trebuchet-Musketman upgrade chain, especially since Trebuchets don't actually upgrade.

You can upgrade trebs to muskets. That actually works as I have done two of them to see the musket. They just do not upgrade to cannons.

 

[Moosezilla]

The Roman Senate when captured gave me (temporarily-to physics) Roman symbol in all my cities, along w/ Roman forts able to build (temp to Ballistics). Fun for a Republic gov.

 

[mythusmage]

Prophets and Missionaries are your friends. What's really fun is when you convert slavers into monks.

For yet more fun, take the slaver turned monk and use it to give a city 200 culture points and put that city over the minimum for another cultural expansion.

BTW, in a recent test game had a slaver attack Atlanta twice, and fail. Then I got my first missionary, who found the bastard and converted him.

Idea: Monks, regardless of origin, can upgrade to prophets or missionaries.

 

[jlvfr]

I knew there was something else about enslavement I didn't think it was correct...
Enslaver (no nationality, yay) grabs someone, turns him into his slave. Right? Wrong. It becomes a slave of X nationality. So, if you, say, lost a worker that way, you can't recover it because it now belongs to country X!

 

[vmxa]

Take it back with a Prophet.

 

[jlvfr]

Take it back with a Prophet.

My prophets (Mullas in my case) suck! Damn noobs loose every fight, even against units with defence 1. I want my money back!

 

[ThERat]

I think I have discovered a small bug. Theocracy is only supposed to give 4 military police but in my cities I can see 5 units giving happy faces

 

[Moosezilla]

Theocracy seems so easy even w/tile penalty... and yes revolution is quick but bloody. I'm missing barracks very much w/Republic but I intend on switch to Fascism.

 

[vmxa]

What exactly is the pop lost factor in a switch to Demo? Not that I am going to be doing that, but it would be nice to know.

 

[WildWeazel]

@jlvfr: Do you mean the slave's nationality actually becomes that of the Enslaver?

@vmxa: If both Anarchy and Democracy have forced resettlement, it should be -2 for each town and -4 for each city.

 

[jlvfr]

@jlvfr: Do you mean the slave's nationality actually becomes that of the Enslaver?

Yep so now, if you want it back, you have to hope you have a nearby enslaver of your own...

 

[Civinator]

I see that the setup screen defaults to 31 civilizations on a standard map. Is this just for flexibility, or do you recommend all civs on the map? Or what numbers for different sizes?

I recommend all civs on the map playing the two biggest map sizes in CCM. If you start with less civs have a look, that all religions are covered by your starting civs and that there is a balance between the civs with a starting religious tendency to Christianity, Islam and Buddhism.

The pedia entry for the Prophet unit is confusing. The note at the top sounds like Israel can't get them, but then it says that the Temple of Solomon produces them.

I will have a look on it.

Get rid of those Firaxis leaderheads animations!

Than the download even becomes bigger.

There are a lot of leaderhead graphics in CCM that are much better in quality than the originals thanks to Vuldacon´s brilliant work. For example look at the Indio-China leaderhead for era 1 in CCM fixed by Vuldacon and compare it with the original.

Is "strategic bombing" actually precision bombing? Isn't that feature broken? (nevermind, I guess that was in vanilla)

It´s different. Strategic bombing can take out up to two buildings for each bomber attack.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=219194&d=1246123392

I am utterly confused by the Catapult-Trebuchet-Musketman upgrade chain, especially since Trebuchets don't actually upgrade.

As posted above they do upgrade. When the siege machines go obsolete, the personal that manned them, takes their new muskets and do a better job. The name problem of upgrading a king-flag unit to another king-flag unit (otherwise all upgraded units would be named “Ruler&#8221is avoided as now a king-flag unit upgrades to a normal unit.

The double-extermination effect on later governments is very interesting. I will revolt with extreme caution.

The governments in CCM need more tuning. If you have granaries or later hospitals these switches are not devastating.

I'm seeing a lot of names that are not quite right after translation from German. I could compile a list if you'd like.

Please post the list. CCM should become an English speaking mod.

I don't know what to research!

That´s your problem. One hint: In CCM you should have a sharp look on the map, what to research next. I tried to make the decisions for the player, even in research, much tougher than in normal C3C.

immobile units should not have the "go to" ability (apprentice)

That´s true, but the apprentice isn´t immobile.

Since the default "worker" starting unit is the only one of those you get, how about giving the poor guy a work rate bonus?

No. I don´t like that every tile on a map carries terrain improvements, especially not early in the game. On big maps in CCM, you will experience the true worth of a road.

The small icon for Masonry doesn't look like masonry- or the large icon. Is that the right icon?

It´s a part of the famous wall of Babylon.

On a large map, the early game seems rather tedious without the ability to build workers and settlers. At the rate we're expanding, it's going to be the middle ages before international borders start colliding. Maybe the auto-production rates for those units should be increased for larger maps (this would require a tweaked biq, of course.)

Why should they collide? The world is big and the adventure is the same. The autoproduction rate for workers and settlers is o.k. Slaves can b very useful.

I'm sure there's a good reason, but light brown civ-color for Rome seems odd

There are too many civs, that deserve red better than the Romans.

I like the whale

Like many other little graphics in CCM, this is a Civ 2 graphic. You can find tons of other civ 2 graphics in the units_32 file and the airfield in CCM also is a Civ 2 graphic. The really worth of Civ 2graphics will be coming to the eyes of the civers, when the CCM world map will be revealed (what will still need a lot of time).

just got my first Enslaver. Is there anything that can detect this guy? Why not give them Detect Invisible as well, so that you can either use them to enslave or to protect your own units from enslavement?

Holy Men can detect slavers and other holy men. That is enough for reasons of game balance.

It's really not cool that barbarians can move on mountains. They just go there and fortify and I can't do anything about it

You should set barbarians to only appear in villages to reduce AI turntimes in era 3 or 4 for big maps.

Even with my research maxed and little micro-management I'm making quite a bit of money compared to a typical C3C game. Is that supposed to happen?

This money can be used very well. In CCM buildings have no upkeeping costs to reduce turntimes in era 3 and 4 for big maps.

"Greetings! I am the Ruler of the Russians." Looks like some of the diplo script could use some work.

May be, you have no clue how many work the diplo file made to have it as it is without crashing texts and graphics for the multiple rulers. May be somebody will work on it on the level it has now. At present I can´t see the texts of the diplo file any longer.

Enslavers make excellent scouts, as Scout units are practically useless on a map with barbarians.

If you produce scouts very early, they can be extremely useful.

That's all for now! Overall, I'm very impressed. I wish I had more time to explore the mod.

Weasel Op, thank you for your feedback and for your kind words.

 

[Civinator]

@civinator

I reported it in my solo game thread, there seems to be a problem with dromon pathfinding. Do they not see other units as 3 of them ran into my ships declraing war on me.

ThERat, thank you for the report. For all coastal ships the "wheeled"-flag was removed as this flag triggered AI pathfinding errors and a lot of freezes. But one ship was forgotten: The drommon. This will be fixed with the next CCM biq.

 

[vmxa]

I would be fine with a larger download and would enjoy better letterheads, but it is not critical.

As bombardment units are hard to come by in the first two eras, I would not upgrade those trebs. At least till much later.

It may be true that the gran/hosp will help recover, but losing 4 per city could be painful. At 24 cities, that is 96 citizens prodcution/research gone in one swoop.

Weasel OP, you can edit the Palette to make it what you want and will have game play effects.

Barbs on mountains should be duck soup for Lawyers. I think they can go on those types of terrain.

Weasel OP could you be explicit on script issues? I am playing as Russia as well.

I popped out a few scout and they just bust as many huts as I can find.

 

[Civinator]

I knew there was something else about enslavement I didn't think it was correct...
Enslaver (no nationality, yay) grabs someone, turns him into his slave. Right? Wrong. It becomes a slave of X nationality. So, if you, say, lost a worker that way, you can't recover it because it now belongs to country X!

That´s true. Let´s see what to do here.

 

[mythusmage]

Ran into a problem; a file couldn't be found and so the game quit. The file in question is supposed to be in the Shoni No Kagesuke folder under CCM/Art/Units. No such folder.

So I did some "spotlighting" and found the folder under Play the World Game Data/Extras/Medieval Japan/Art/Units. Duplicated that folder, moved it to the CCM mod folder, deleted the "copy", and when I return to the game it is my hope I did the right thing. If I got the wrong SnK folder, I'll try the one under Sengoku in Conquests.

So if you play Civ III on a Mac, that's one problem (plus solution) you'll run into with CCM. More as play continues.

BTW, stomping on slavers with a hunter killer team of missionary and chariots is loads of fun. And speaking for Prophets, Missionaries, and Mullahs; beyond being fortified is there anything special about fortified holy men?

 

[mythusmage]

This rather bugs me (sorry, Civinator); clans, apprentices, and training chariots are bleedin' useless and need to be upgraded. The cost of upgrading is zero gold. What this means is that the player gets a new Settler, Worker, or Chariot after an extra turn; but only if he remembers to upgrade. How about setting the auto-production to, say, one Chariot every 9 turns instead of one Training Chariot every 8 turns plus one turn for upgrading.

Call me old fashioned, but complications should be reserved for important things.