CCM1 (epic mod)

[Civinator]

Civinator here is another you may want to check out. I tried to upgrade a caravel in a town with a harbor, no go. I checked the pedia and only the tech for galleons was needed. Check editor and it has the caravel upgrading to a Dhow. That is a different tech, so I could not upgrade.

I suspect a Galleon makes more sense as that is what we are expecting.

vmxa, what you see here is the methode of advanced upgrading, allowing to set all unique units in a normal upgrading chain. This methode was discovered by Civanator (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108396) and is also used in CCM. What you see in the editor is only the next link of the big upgrading chain. You see the correct upgrading chain (but only for the civ of the human player) by clicking in the unit icons on the techtree.

Therefore a Cog (for the civs that can build that unit) upgrades to a Caravel and that ship upgrades to a Galleon with the tech Exploration.

A Dhow (for the civs that can build that unit) upgrades to a Dhow(cannons) and that ship upgrades to a Galleon with the tech Exploration.

If I should see what really happens here you can post here a zip of your save file.

Another suggestion, not a bug or anything. It would be nice, if you right click on a tech in the tree that has obsoleted a wonder, that you could list them. I can barely figure out some in a normal game and I have seen them a lot.

Here I have no idea what is obsolete as I am not familiar with the icons. Yeah, I could check on my wonders, but that is not practical the later in the game it gets. Just too many.

vmxa, you can directly see in the techtree, what buildings (GWs, SWs and normal buildings) go obsolete with the research of a certain tech. These buildings are redcrossed in the techbox.



For example with the tech "Enlightenment", the SW 'Slaver´s Hut', 'Slavery', 'Crusade', 'Jihad' and 'Monestry of Martial Arts' are going obsolete.

 

[Civinator]

Hey I have a question: How can you build a barracks as a democracy? It says that the democracy barracks requires the hidden reserve tech, which i assume one can never get. the cost is also 500 shields, which is an interesting twist, but not that prohibitive. the fact that i cant ever get the req. tech, however, is. Also, can barracks be built as a republic? I was a monarchy so im not sure. If in fact democracy is intended to not build barracks, thats ok. i just was curious.

At present, you can´t build barracks with Democracy. Barracks in my eyes are one of the most powerful buildings in C3C. Therefore they are suited well for the distinction between different governments. I had the idea to rename barracks for Democracy to Army Headquarter and make them very expensive. But this all is part of the balancing of governments, that must be done during the betatest. At the end of the betatest, I want, that all different governments make sense for gameplay.

At present the slot for the Barracks Democracy is not used in CCM gameplay and may be it must be overwritten by a building that is needed more for reasons of game-balance.

Concerning Republic: This government was much too strong in normal Civ 3. Most civers had the only tactic to reach Republic and than rest there until the end of the game. I find this boring. Therefore I left Republic as it was minus barracks. We will see about suggestions for an interesting balance of the different governments by buildings and may be government specific units (autoproduced by governmentspecific buildings) in addition to the normal settings for governments in the editor.

Here a first step in CCM is still done by using different governmentspecific buildings for different boostings in city production.

 

[vmxa]

That is what I mean, looking at that shot, I have no idea what those icons stand for and so do not know the wonder. Take the first one. You say it is a Small Wonder the Slaver Hut. I am glad you know that, but I do not know what the icon is telling me.

I don't know any of them. I see the one for for Crusaders in C3C, but I am not sure what it represent in CCM. I have no easy way to find out. Especially, if I do not have that wonder.

It is often the case that I may want to obsolete their wonder, by gifting or trading that tech. This is done for Education in C3C for example.

 

[vmxa]

vmxa, what you see here is the methode of advanced upgrading, allowing to set all unique units in a normal upgrading chain. This methode was discovered by Civanator (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108396) and is also used in CCM. What you see in the editor is only the next link of the big upgrading chain. You see the correct upgrading chain (but only for the civ of the human player) by clicking in the unit icons on the techtree.

Therefore a Cog (for the civs that can build that unit) upgrades to a Caravel and that ship upgrades to a Galleon with the tech Exploration.

A Dhow (for the civs that can build that unit) upgrades to a Dhow(cannons) and that ship upgrades to a Galleon with the tech Exploration.

I must be dense as I do not understand. I click on the caravel in a town with a harbor. It will not offer an upgrade to a galleon. I have Exploration.

I right click the town and see the pedia for the caravel. I open it and it says a caravel upgrades to a galleon and has no resources requirement. Just the tech and the gold.

I am playing as Russia and the town can make galleons? So what am I missing? The Dhow requires Navigation, have it. The Dhow pedia say nothing about any upgrade.

That suggest a problem to my feeble mind. I grasp the concept that you have a means to upgrade one type to many other types in the same path. In any event, you cannot upgrade a caravel to a galleon. It remains to be seen, if it will jump to a clipper level vessel.

I am amazed at how much you have managed to do. I know there are collaborators. Still it is a massive effort. I hope we do not bury you with tweaks and nits.

 

[vmxa]

Concerning Republic: This government was much too strong in normal Civ 3. Most civers had the only tactic to reach Republic and than rest there until the end of the game. I find this boring. Therefore I left Republic as it was minus barracks. We will see about suggestions for an interesting balance of the different governments by buildings and may be government specific units (autoproduced by governmentspecific buildings) in addition to the normal settings for governments in the editor.

Here a first step in CCM is still done by using different governmentspecific buildings for different boostings in city production.

Not an attempt to argue one way or another, just to give one persons perspective. As you say many played C3C and went to Republic for the rest of the game. In fact it was not wise to switch more than once, unless you were religious.

The concept of AW meant that most would switch to Monarchy as their one change.

CCM has a tiny anarchy for a switch, so players may elect to switch more than once. I cannot say at this point. No armies mean no AW and even if you did play AW, you have no WW in Theo, so no need for Monarchy.

I am having trouble seeing any reason to use Republic, maybe that will change for me, but I do not see how. The only thing I have seen that it offers that is better than Theo is the lack of tile penalty, if it does.

That is too trivial to care about in any schemes I have come up with, especially if there are improvements later such as rails offered in C3C. If that gives +1 food for tiles, then cities will be able to get quite large enough.

Again that is just for you to consider or reject. I am fine either way.

 

[vmxa]

Whoops logged off without posting the reason I came to the thread in the first place. Trebs upgrade to muskets? Is that correct? I had one unit that I upgraded to a cannon, but the trebs had no upgrade button.

The pedia says it upgrades to a musket. As we use to say in software, working as designed. Is that the case?

 

[Civinator]

vmxa, I go to the replies later.

The first upgrade for CCM is up. It is only a small download of the new CCM-Betatest-biq v.1.1 and three textfiles containing fixes to all bugs and errors you have posted here and in other forums:

The CCM-Betatest biq v.1.1. contains the following changes:

- Chariot-upgrading needs horses: fixed
- East India Trading Company: Changed to correct name
- Early trade for Egypt: fixed
- Spearman for Indo-China: fixed
- Costs for all kind of early swordsmen: Risen from 10 to 25
- Scientist available with Writing: fixed
- Peacekeeper: Range reduced to 226

Civilopedia:

-Entry for settler: changed
-Entry for clan: changed
-Chasqui Scout: Stats manually added
-Entry Theocracy: rewritten
-Entry Enslaver: rewritten
-Entry Supply Shipments: rewritten
-Entries for all kinds of religious communities: fixed
-Link in Coastal Battery: fixed

Pediaicons:

-wondersplash entry BLDG_Temple_of_Blood: fixed

Script:

- "We love the ... Day" changed to "We love our Ruler Day"


You can download the upgrade-files here:
http://www.stormoverciv.org/forums/showthread.php?p=24205#post24205

Current CCM-Betatest-games can be continued even with the new textfiles.

 

[puwen]

The Great Wall.

Is there some hidden requirement (pedia doesn't say any about it) since I can't build it, but I've seen AI start to build it?

Edit: Checked the Editor: Got the Chinese flag.

 

[Civinator]

I must be dense as I do not understand. I click on the caravel in a town with a harbor. It will not offer an upgrade to a galleon. I have Exploration.

I right click the town and see the pedia for the caravel. I open it and it says a caravel upgrades to a galleon and has no resources requirement. Just the tech and the gold.

I am playing as Russia and the town can make galleons? So what am I missing? The Dhow requires Navigation, have it. The Dhow pedia say nothing about any upgrade.

That suggest a problem to my feeble mind. I grasp the concept that you have a means to upgrade one type to many other types in the same path. In any event, you cannot upgrade a caravel to a galleon. It remains to be seen, if it will jump to a clipper level vessel.

vmxa, it´s a pity that I had to do the upgrade of the CCM Betatest-biq and the needed files first. Now the following is the first part for the next CCM-Betatest biq v.1.2:

In the beginning of creating CCM, I didn´t want that these ships really could upgrade. On the other side I used a nasty trick that these ships can´t been built any longer when they are upgrading. In short: Making a unit dissapear from the building queue without upgrading it. To achieve this, the unit gets a "halfed" upgrading-setting in the editor. It is in the upgrading chain (that´s why it appears in the civilopedia), but it can´t really upgrade as for real upgrading a unit two settings in the editor are needed.

When I changed this later, I forgot the caravel that is in the original part of units. Better than to write words is to show it with a screenshot:



So, it´s true. You cannot upgrade any of your caravels in your game. This will be fixed with the next biq.

I am amazed at how much you have managed to do. I know there are collaborators. Still it is a massive effort. I hope we do not bury you with tweaks and nits.

Thank you very much. I´m looking for the reports, thoughts and even complaints of the civers, as this is the best methode to improve CCM.

 

[vmxa]

Question on Enslaver and other invisible units. What is the range that they can see other invisible units?

I could not find any data on that in the editor. I ran into some War Phants stacked with an Enslaver and I want to move as little as I can to avoid them coming for me. I want to shadow them with a Prophet.

It looks like the 9 tile radius is what they can see. Anyone know, if that is correct? Thanks. Got the update and will apply it. Do I need to start a new game to get the effects? I may do that anyway and try another government.

The thing is that they seem to not come for me, but I do not know, if that was due to not seeing me any longer or they had other plans. I moved to keep a 2 tile gap.

 

[Civinator]

That is what I mean, looking at that shot, I have no idea what those icons stand for and so do not know the wonder. Take the first one. You say it is a Small Wonder the Slaver Hut. I am glad you know that, but I do not know what the icon is telling me.

I don't know any of them. I see the one for for Crusaders in C3C, but I am not sure what it represent in CCM. I have no easy way to find out. Especially, if I do not have that wonder.

It is often the case that I may want to obsolete their wonder, by gifting or trading that tech. This is done for Education in C3C for example.

I understand now. It should be possible to do a description in the tech-civilopedia about the buildings that go obsolete.

 

[Civinator]

Not an attempt to argue one way or another, just to give one persons perspective. As you say many played C3C and went to Republic for the rest of the game. In fact it was not wise to switch more than once, unless you were religious.

The concept of AW meant that most would switch to Monarchy as their one change.

CCM has a tiny anarchy for a switch, so players may elect to switch more than once. I cannot say at this point. No armies mean no AW and even if you did play AW, you have no WW in Theo, so no need for Monarchy.

I am having trouble seeing any reason to use Republic, maybe that will change for me, but I do not see how. The only thing I have seen that it offers that is better than Theo is the lack of tile penalty, if it does.

That is too trivial to care about in any schemes I have come up with, especially if there are improvements later such as rails offered in C3C. If that gives +1 food for tiles, then cities will be able to get quite large enough.

Again that is just for you to consider or reject. I am fine either way.

Republic has the additional trade-bonus and in fact at present in CCM most civs choose monarchy for a longer time.

Whoops logged off without posting the reason I came to the thread in the first place. Trebs upgrade to muskets? Is that correct? I had one unit that I upgraded to a cannon, but the trebs had no upgrade button.

The pedia says it upgrades to a musket. As we use to say in software, working as designed. Is that the case?

That´s true. and it is not so silly as it sounds, when discovering this fact first. It´s not possible to upgrade one king-flag unit to another king-flag unit without loosing the original name of that unit (that´s a stupid setting in the editor). So if you would upgrade a trebuchet (king-flag unit) to a cannon (king-flag unit) the upgraded unit would be named ruler and not cannon.

Therefore when an artillery unit is getting obsolete, the men who serve with that unit leave it and take the available firearms to defend themselves with better methodes as the obsolete weapon. So the men leave the obsolete trebuchets and take their muskets and in this way the silly problem in the editor is solved. as now the king-flag-unit upgrades to a normal unit and so the new unit can hold its name.

 

[vmxa]

No big deal on the caravel. I saw that flag, but was not sure if it pertained to the units ability to upgrade or be upgraded. Now I know, if I do not forget. The only thing I was sure of was, it was not anything in my game, but rather a design issue.

The number of things involved, I am not surprised to find this stuff here and there. It does not matter to me, if the fix is to not allow upgrading or correct it. I only need to know that the pedia is correct that it can or cannot. Then I can decide what to do with the unit.

 

[Civinator]

The Great Wall.

Is there some hidden requirement (pedia doesn't say any about it) since I can't build it, but I've seen AI start to build it?

Edit: Checked the Editor: Got the Chinese flag.

Yes, it´s a civspecific building.

 

[vmxa]

Republic has the additional trade-bonus and in fact at present in CCM most civs choose monarchy for a longer time.

I saw that most were in Monarchy. I may as well pose this issue FWIIW. Well these are not issues, just observation. They may not even be relevant in other games. So just FYI:

Found the Dutch capitol at size 1 the pop was a joker. This was 750AD. Not a big deal in C3C, were you would make settlers and workers, I have no idea what was going here though.

Babs are still sending out unescorted settlers in 1050AD. They have lost several and have not grown as I keep hidden units on front and back to catch any. I am surprised that they are not escorted this late. I think it is the size of the map. They have no one very close to them.

They send out a cat that was in a stack. I killed of the escorts with hidden units and did not have enough to attack the cat. Next turn the cat moved forward alone. What is it intended to do, just scout maybe? I think the offense flag makes them treat it as an attacker, so out it goes.

Later I saw others pushing cats out alone on their way to a war. Just like they do all their other attackers. Engine filure again.

I see it is now 1310AD and Babylon is still at 4 towns, thanks to the solo settlers I have killed. This is just crippling them. Everyone else is at about 8 to 10.

Anyway just wanted to let you know of some oddities in case it factors into your play balancing down the road.

 

[Civinator]

Question on Enslaver and other invisible units. What is the range that they can see other invisible units?

Enslavers can´t see invisible units. They run into them. Holymen can see invisible units. The range is depending on their location. On top of mountains they can see other invisible units for two tiles if I remember well. Holy men have supporters, that inform them about all facts going on in their surroundings , even other holy men or enslavers.

 

[vmxa]

Ok, it could have been a Prophet that saw the Enslaver under the phant.

 

[Gojira54]

Enslavers can´t see invisible units. They run into them. Holymen can see invisible units. The range is depending on their location. On top of mountains they can see other invisible units for two tiles if I remember well. Holy men have supporters, that inform them about all facts going on in their surroundings , even other holy men or enslavers.

Lawyers can see them, too. You need a lawyer in every city

 

[puwen]

Yes, it´s a civspecific building.

Maybe add it in the Pedia as you've done to the Statue of Zeus?

 

[WildWeazel]

Perfect timing on the update. I'm about to start my first actual game. Stand by for beta nit-picking