CFC: Fastest Deity Science Victory

[Minou]

Yes, the maps and settings I am messing with are intended for Babylon with war. I have not decided if I want to partake in flipping cities and "city chopping" yet. I think it might be possible to get T125 or so with a great map, and a great map is of course easy to come by when you pick the Natural Wonders, CS and AIs, have Legendary/Abundant resources, and have those extra forests from Wet climate. I think adding AIs may help quite a bit here for pillaging many Campus/IZ with Derepdation in the end game.

Maybe approaching T100 if you add flipping/chopping? Not sure if breaking T100 is realistic but I haven't played that far yet. I just dislike city flipping so much I figured I would play as Babylon with no intentional flipping. My heart broke when Firaxis provided the final "balance" patch without addressing pillage scaling.

After this I would like to try a "cooked" peaceful game, which I think would have very different settings - thinking maybe just 1AI and large map for infinite space, and maybe swapping in many Religious CS to try Russia or Khmer? Or perhaps try Bull Moose Teddy again, I haven't played him since they introduced the Preserve which is tempting.

 

[ATEX]

Yes, the maps and settings I am messing with are intended for Babylon with war. I have not decided if I want to partake in flipping cities and "city chopping" yet. I think it might be possible to get T125 or so with a great map, and a great map is of course easy to come by when you pick the Natural Wonders, CS and AIs, have Legendary/Abundant resources, and have those extra forests from Wet climate. I think adding AIs may help quite a bit here for pillaging many Campus/IZ with Derepdation in the end game.

Maybe approaching T100 if you add flipping/chopping? Not sure if breaking T100 is realistic but I haven't played that far yet. I just dislike city flipping so much I figured I would play as Babylon with no intentional flipping. My heart broke when Firaxis provided the final "balance" patch without addressing pillage scaling.

After this I would like to try a "cooked" peaceful game, which I think would have very different settings - thinking maybe just 1AI and large map for infinite space, and maybe swapping in many Religious CS to try Russia or Khmer? Or perhaps try Bull Moose Teddy again, I haven't played him since they introduced the Preserve which is tempting.

Turn 100 for sure can be broken if you go max into plillage and flipping, but without, I would agree that 120s should be a good goal. I think we will have many other civs that can finish in the 130s, but 120s I think will be very limited. I have played to turn 100 with Ethiopia and Khmer, and I can start 1-turning techs at around turn 70. But I cant break the 1-tech per turn limitation, so 130s seems to be as fast as it gets. I guess there are two ways to make it substantially faster. Either you have to have one of the civs that can break the one tech barrier, or someone like Teddy that can probably start 1-turning a lot earlier in the game.

 

[Casualty of war]

Is there video of someone doing the pillage trick for an extended stretch? Personally I would rather subject myself to sequential colonoscopies than that sort of tedium, but if that's the type of nonsense I'm competing against in HoF I can call it a day and go start prepping for Humankind.

 

[ATEX]

Is there video of someone doing the pillage trick for an extended stretch? Personally I would rather subject myself to sequential colonoscopies than that sort of tedium, but if that's the type of nonsense I'm competing against in HoF I can call it a day and go start prepping for Humankind.

I dont think there will be many pillage games here as it is very tedious to excecute. As far as I know there are not any good videos showing how to do pillage as effective as possible. But the description is here in the all standard science HOF. The point is to get a repair and pillage time down to 2-3 turns, and keep the flipping cities there at minus 25 to 20 loyalty. The other trick about gifting cities to pillage their campuses/IZ is on the other hand not so tedious, and might show up more often.

 

[Bangau]

Personally I would rather subject myself to sequential colonoscopies than that sort of tedium

From the descriptions I read it's not really my cup of tea either, but might try it some day. For now I'm just hoping to see more strategies with different leaders in here.

 

[ATEX]

I will see if I can post my ethiopia game tomorrow. It finished at turn 131 I think.

 

[ATEX]

• 1st place ATEX - 131 turns- Menelix II of Ethiopia
• 2nd place Bangau - 143 turns - Matthias of Hungary (june 2021)
• 3rd place: Bangau - 144 turns - Peter of Russia (apr 2021)
• 4th place: whacker - 173 turns - Qin Shi Huang of China
• 5th place: The Highwayman - 178 turns - Yayavarman of Khmer (may 2021)
• 6th place: Victoria - 191 turns - Kupe of Aoteoroa
• 7th place: kirrbbb - 195 turns - Matthias Corvinus of Hungary
• 8th place: Ceydezed - 216 turns - Pericles of Greece
• 9th place: Bangau - 236 turns - Pachacuti of the Inca
• 10th place:
• 11th place:

I guess the few people that actually reads this thread already know I had an ethiopa game going on. It was following a very simple plan. Get voidsingers, and as much faith as possible. In the beginning I was trying to get a map where I could use maui combined with Ethiopias ability with duplicate resources. I think if you roll the right map this will work very well. When I started this game I was trying to get a marsh map without suger or truffles. Which dependent on size is not that unlikely. If you have that Maui will spawn rice on marsh 100%. This has to be powerful. However with the map I spawned here it was not really that necessary. The starting citiy spawned with 11 deer... Another idea behind the game was to let the cities grow larger, so the distance between them is left big on purpose. I also thought the duplicate resources would work outside the 3 tile radius, but that does not work sadly. But large cities gives very nice trade routes. I think maybe for all games that leaving room for the capitol to become a mega city might be a good plan. See attached the turn 100 yields (And this is without coropration for faith which I messed up and gave to the neigbour city...)

The setup is a standard speed large wetlands map with Kristina as the only AI. I tried some new CS compared to normal, and did not max out the science ones, as my science would come firstly from faith.
I kept dramatic ages on, as I do like the extra movement on settlers quite a lot, and the extra culture from wonders is nice at some stages of the game.

I took godess of the hunt as my pantheon, and sacred places as a belief as you do get a lot of wonders.


Basically like we discussed earlier, the end time boils down to when you can start 1-teching. I belive this game was the same as my last khmer game. Once you get Kilwa, and voidsingers kick in, you one tech for the rest of the game. So around turn 70. For a peacefull game I guess only Alexander and Babylon can go around that limitation. For the other civs we will have to start one-turning earlier. Not sure yet if I see any obvious way of doing that. Maybe Teddy, Australia or China can pull it off, but the first 60 turns you need to get your cites and infrastructure up and running, so this will be hard...

The end game is just cruising as you have so much boosts to chopping, and AH to boost with builders.

 

[Bangau]

1st place ATEX - 131 turns- Menelix II of Ethiopia

Great game!

Interesting choices for the setup. Dramatic ages seems to have more advantages in this game than disadvantages. What kind of (fast SV) strategies do you think profit from the dramatic ages mod? In this setup, adding e.g. Gilgemesh and Canada for solid friends to trade with, might you shave of a few more turns?

One-teching from turn 70 is really really fast. Any specific steps you took to get there so early?

 

[Casualty of war]

Canada is almost as generous when buying your Diplo Favor as Sweden is.

And those Dramatic Ages cards are crazy powerful, especially when you can double up Wildcards come Monarchy.

Nice work, ATEX. I do love a good Goddess of the Hunt start.

 

[ATEX]

Great game!

Interesting choices for the setup. Dramatic ages seems to have more advantages in this game than disadvantages. What kind of (fast SV) strategies do you think profit from the dramatic ages mod? In this setup, adding e.g. Gilgemesh and Canada for solid friends to trade with, might you shave of a few more turns?

One-teching from turn 70 is really really fast. Any specific steps you took to get there so early?

Not so easy to answer those questions. Extra movement on settlers is powerfull for everyone, but losing a wildcard slot also hurts. I guess it fits best in strategies where you have very good synergy with one of the other cards. If you build a lot of wonders or commercial hubs/harbours as part of the strat, I think it will be worth it. But Im unsure how it will play out in a war game since I did not try that yet.

With regards to adding AI, that will give you more gold for sure, but I tried once, and spoiled a good map because one of the extra AI took my pantheon... So I went back to just one AI. Its just less risk that someone will take something that you want (pantheon, wonders).

When it comes to the point you start One-teching, it is hard to point at specifics. Its the sum of all decicions you make for the first 60-100 turns that decides that. But with SS on, you ofc get a major boost to science when Voidsingers kick in. Kilwa is also very often a jump in science, and will bring you in range of starting the one teching. I think this often will happen at the same time that you have AH up, and can start spamming cities and chopping in all you need for boosts and campuses. I do think I focus more on early culture than most players though. Getting early PP and Feudalism is a major speed booster. With heroes mode Anansi will be a good way to get there, and my first pick for a hero in most scenarios.

I will try to think a bit more on what you can do to get that one teching started earlier, as it seems it will be the best way to speed up SV for almost all civs in a peaceful setup.

 

[Casualty of war]

I have to be Gorgo-careful, because Anansi boosts don't seem to roll over at all now. I could have sworn they used to.

 

[Minou]

Cross-posting this. I am still working out the best strategy for a speed run with "Cooked" settings and I just figured out that you can use Amani to reveal all the Heroes instantly. When she establishes you get a chance to discover a Hero due to the 10% chance for sending an envoy to a City State. I am not sure if you actually get two 10% chances or just one. Regardless, if you move Amani to another CS and then right back, the game apparently gives you another chance at a Hero. Do this a couple dozen times, and they are all revealed! A very tempting bit of cheese

I figured this out by accident when I moved her back and forth indecisively and ended up getting a Hero on the second move. I would personally consider this an exploit and so not something to do in a HOF attempt (kind of like the old Nalanda bug), what do you all think?

 

[ATEX]

Cross-posting this. I am still working out the best strategy for a speed run with "Cooked" settings and I just figured out that you can use Amani to reveal all the Heroes instantly. When she establishes you get a chance to discover a Hero due to the 10% chance for sending an envoy to a City State. I am not sure if you actually get two 10% chances or just one. Regardless, if you move Amani to another CS and then right back, the game apparently gives you another chance at a Hero. Do this a couple dozen times, and they are all revealed! A very tempting bit of cheese

I figured this out by accident when I moved her back and forth indecisively and ended up getting a Hero on the second move. I would personally consider this an exploit and so not something to do in a HOF attempt (kind of like the old Nalanda bug), what do you all think?

I agree. This has to be considered as a bug.

 

[Bangau]

I agree. This has to be considered as a bug.

I second that. Definitely a bug.

On a similar note I recently noticed that most AI start valuing diplo favor way later than they earn them and you can all their diplo favor for 1 gold (max 20 per turn). If you have many AI, you can load up on diplo favor, as long as it's 'on sale' and sell everything of to Kristina or Wilfred to get a lot of money for free. Silly exploit I think, and also in the category 'should not be used in a HOF game'.

 

[ATEX]

I second that. Definitely a bug.

On a similar note I recently noticed that most AI start valuing diplo favor way later than they earn them and you can all their diplo favor for 1 gold (max 20 per turn). If you have many AI, you can load up on diplo favor, as long as it's 'on sale' and sell everything of to Kristina or Wilfred to get a lot of money for free. Silly exploit I think, and also in the category 'should not be used in a HOF game'.

Im not sure if I agree about this one. This is just poor design. They just cant seem to figure out how to deal with diplofavour. Its probably not a bug. But I also do not think it is very usefull, beause you will always have enough Diplo favour to ruin the AIs that are willing to pay. Thats at least my experience. But if you want to keep this out of HOF I have no problems with that.

 

[Bangau]

Im not sure if I agree about this one. This is just poor design. They just cant seem to figure out how to deal with diplofavour. Its probably not a bug. But I also do not think it is very usefull, beause you will always have enough Diplo favour to ruin the AIs that are willing to pay. Thats at least my experience. But if you want to keep this out of HOF I have no problems with that.

Neh, it's not a bug but I think it IS an exploit. For me poor design easily used by the player to get an unforeseen advantage is basically what an exploit is. You should try this some time in a practice game: get Kristina and Wilfred and a bunch of AI that don't care about diplo favor. You can easily get 10, 20, 30 or even more gpt very early in the game doing this. Since especially the early stages of the game make the biggest difference later on, I really think it's an exploit to be avoided. The designers can never (should never) have meant for diplo favor to be free early game.

 

[The Highwayman]

I think the current diplo state is an unintentional side effect of Firaxis trying to fix the old 1 diplo = 1 gpt trade exploits. So now we just have to wait until ~t70 or so to sell back the diplo for lump sums, unless Wil or Kristina is present. It's pretty dumb they'll sell 20 diplo for 1g and a switch flips and they'll buy it back at a premium. I used to have games bug out and crash due to too many ongoing trade deals. Now it crashes due to the April patch but that's a different story.

I can see why that would be discouraged in a competitive hof setting. But what about selling early relics? The AI tremendously overvalues those and if you pop one early that's a lot of early tempo free of charge.

 

[Bangau]

But what about selling early relics?

I overvalue them so much I've never even tried to sell one. What do they give for them early game?

 

[ATEX]

I overvalue them so much I've never even tried to sell one. What do they give for them early game?

They will pretty much give you everything they have. But again I think that is not a bug, but more a choice made by the game designers. So I feel it would be wrong to ban it. Even though it does not happen all that often that you get a relic early in a HOF-game. Its kind of like a wonder start. Just something rare and lucky.

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

Hi all, just joined, but have been following HoF off and on for a while. Really impressed with the progress since May! It inspired me to try a fast science run, where I learned a lot about late-game chopping especially. Still haven't figured out the pillage game yet, but with a bunch of mods broke the T150 boundary. If I can roll back the gameplay changes, will see if possible to translate that back to just modes.