Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
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[RD] Charlie Kirk assassinated
- Thread starter Kaitzilla
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Lexicus
Deity
I do apologize if either of you covered this point, but martyr status by itself means very little compared to the cause for which one is martyred. MLK was martyred for a good cause. Charlie Kirk may or may not have been martyred, but if you think he was, he was martyred for essentially the same cause that William Sherman correctly called "one of the worst for which men ever fought."
Horst Wessel was a martyr, but more importantly, he was a Nazi. Horst Wessel got exactly what he deserved and the guy who killed him and was later murdered by the Nazis for it was a martyr too, but for a good cause.
Gori the Grey
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Oh, yeah. One can of course then ask whether the cause for which the martyr died was a worthy one. This was my response to cake when he first asserted that we should view Kirk alongside JFK and MLK Jr.
My first post in the thread.
My first post in the thread.
What about people who celebrate the death of Jesus?
Gori the Grey
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Are you asking, "Is the cause for which Jesus submitted to death a worthy one?" Or am I missing what you're driving at?
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
he got randomly shot so people could get randomly shotOh, yeah. One can of course then ask whether the cause for which the martyr died was a worthy one. This was my response to cake when he first asserted that we should view Kirk alongside JFK and MLK Jr.
My first post in the thread.
Gori the Grey
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I Googled, "are any saints patrons of something based on the circumstances of their martyrdom" and Google's AI gave me this.
Since there's talk about making him a saint. Even though he wasn't Catholic. And probably hates Catholics.
Evangelicals should be celebrating Charlie's trip to Heaven. It is a journey they all allegedly wish to make sooner rather than later. Wanting him here is just plain selfish.
So he can become the patron saint of school shooters?
The Debate Style That Propelled Charlie Kirk’s Movement
By Ken Bensinger and Charlie SmartSept. 26, 2025
Charlie Kirk may be best remembered for arguing in public.
A cornerstone of Mr. Kirk’s devoted conservative following was his twice-yearly tours of universities around the country. For hours, he would cheerfully perch on a folding chair and challenge students and the public to, as he called it, “Prove Me Wrong.”
By tackling hot-button issues like abortion and trans rights, Mr. Kirk created content that became perfect fodder for brand-building on social media. Curated clips highlighting his wins, promoted with captions describing him as “destroying” liberals, have racked up tens of millions of views on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram.
Since his assassination, Mr. Kirk has been lionized, mostly by those on the right but also by some who did not share his views, as a champion of free speech and an interrogator of viewpoints that spanned the political spectrum.
The New York Times reviewed more than four dozen of Mr. Kirk’s debates, stretching back to 2017, and discussed them with four debate coaches and university professors. The Times review — which examined content, tone, techniques and other hallmarks of each confrontation — reveals how Mr. Kirk used the debate format to deliver a consistent hard-line message while orchestrating highly shareable moments.
This genre of debate, which Mr. Kirk helped pioneer, is now a template that other social media personalities across the political spectrum have increasingly adopted. Here’s a look at how Mr. Kirk constructed his viral confrontations.
The rest of the article has lots of short video clips of his debating style and examples.
The Debate Style That Propelled Charlie Kirk’s Movement
A close read of some of Mr. Kirk’s most viral exchanges shows an approach that was polished and skillful — if not always fair.
Gori the Grey
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The only thing I wish is that the word debate in the antepenultimate sentence (and title of the article) was in scare quotes.
Once you've prepped it for online consumption by choosing only the ones you've "won," and editing them to enhance your victory, it no longer deserves the label debate, imho.
Also, I repeat my core observation about his schtick: what a hollow victory to triumph over people at the age where they are just beginning to put their political philosophy together. Are you also the hardest one to tackle on your kid's little-league football team? You must be so proud!
Once you've prepped it for online consumption by choosing only the ones you've "won," and editing them to enhance your victory, it no longer deserves the label debate, imho.
Also, I repeat my core observation about his schtick: what a hollow victory to triumph over people at the age where they are just beginning to put their political philosophy together. Are you also the hardest one to tackle on your kid's little-league football team? You must be so proud!
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
Who needs actual debates when you can quote mine college kids?
Gori the Grey
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Sorry, but just let me say one other thing.
I would even want to deny him credit for pioneering anything. It's basically Leno's old "Man on the Street" bit (that I think Fallon carried forward): ask people easy questions about history or contemporary events and just show the ones where the people were clueless.
Sorry (not sorry) one more thing:
The two things in post 1311 compound one another: seek out less skilled opponents and even then you have to edit to only the parts that show you to advantage.
I would even want to deny him credit for pioneering anything. It's basically Leno's old "Man on the Street" bit (that I think Fallon carried forward): ask people easy questions about history or contemporary events and just show the ones where the people were clueless.
Sorry (not sorry) one more thing:
The two things in post 1311 compound one another: seek out less skilled opponents and even then you have to edit to only the parts that show you to advantage.
Last edited:
All this points to Kirk just being a charismatic evangelical Christian Nationalist with political ambitions as a way to accumulate wealth. Nothing new here.
Thanks for this, an outline of his schtick and why it was effective.The Debate Style That Propelled Charlie Kirk’s Movement
By Ken Bensinger and Charlie Smart
Sept. 26, 2025
Charlie Kirk may be best remembered for arguing in public.
A cornerstone of Mr. Kirk’s devoted conservative following was his twice-yearly tours of universities around the country. For hours, he would cheerfully perch on a folding chair and challenge students and the public to, as he called it, “Prove Me Wrong.”
By tackling hot-button issues like abortion and trans rights, Mr. Kirk created content that became perfect fodder for brand-building on social media. Curated clips highlighting his wins, promoted with captions describing him as “destroying” liberals, have racked up tens of millions of views on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram.
Since his assassination, Mr. Kirk has been lionized, mostly by those on the right but also by some who did not share his views, as a champion of free speech and an interrogator of viewpoints that spanned the political spectrum.
The New York Times reviewed more than four dozen of Mr. Kirk’s debates, stretching back to 2017, and discussed them with four debate coaches and university professors. The Times review — which examined content, tone, techniques and other hallmarks of each confrontation — reveals how Mr. Kirk used the debate format to deliver a consistent hard-line message while orchestrating highly shareable moments.
This genre of debate, which Mr. Kirk helped pioneer, is now a template that other social media personalities across the political spectrum have increasingly adopted. Here’s a look at how Mr. Kirk constructed his viral confrontations.
The rest of the article has lots of short video clips of his debating style and examples.
The Debate Style That Propelled Charlie Kirk’s Movement
A close read of some of Mr. Kirk’s most viral exchanges shows an approach that was polished and skillful — if not always fair.www.nytimes.com
Hollow indeed, substantively, but music to the ears of his target audience...
Almost everything about his schtick is copied/repackaged from someone else... like the Carlin bit I referenced earlier/
Gori, you might enjoy this article:
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
for the college setting and connecting with the youth specifically, i think the first real "pioneer" of this behavior was ben shapiro. he's kind of irrelevant at this point, but the intersection between combativeness, politics, speaking with/to the youth, specifically targeting the left, and being largely online, was a lucrative combo that shapiro was out with first. kirk basically worked like he did because he was much calmer in his disposition (meaning that he appeared less insane to people without media literacy) and used more than a peppering of smugness rather than the overt yelling (which owns the libs, makes for great clips, again).
shapiro basically mainstreamed and codified this behavior, and made way for the very lucrative right wing talking head thing going on online right now. kirk was the most prominent among them atm. i'm not sure how that was pioneering anything save his more calm demeanour about it, which indeed softened him to people that were (rightfully) wary about such behavior.
Bill O'Reilly used similar tactics on his shows with guests he wanted to dominate. He started on FoxNews in 1996.
amadeus
rad thibodeaux-xs
It’s a time-tested strategy that works where it delivers the ratings. There is a reason why they are called the on-air talent. Mike Wallace and Morton Downey Jr. aren’t that far apart in the cosmic sense. (Meta comment: probably need some new references here.)
I watched the Jimmy Kimmel return as I was in the U.S. at the time it aired, but wasn’t posting as I was so my belated comment is that I don’t think he’s going to be on the air much longer, not because of political pressure but because he didn’t really shift course, and for someone who has been in a ratings decline for the last decade, if he’s not going to work to expand his audience then I think ABC is going to find a way to quietly put him out to pasture. It’s a business, and if his show is costing the network more than what he’s worth, he’ll be out.
I watched the Jimmy Kimmel return as I was in the U.S. at the time it aired, but wasn’t posting as I was so my belated comment is that I don’t think he’s going to be on the air much longer, not because of political pressure but because he didn’t really shift course, and for someone who has been in a ratings decline for the last decade, if he’s not going to work to expand his audience then I think ABC is going to find a way to quietly put him out to pasture. It’s a business, and if his show is costing the network more than what he’s worth, he’ll be out.
I heard an NPR report on teh radio the other day that said all the late night guys generate tens of millions of dollars of profit to their networks. Live, late night viewership may be low, but when you add in prerecorded viewing and streaming and clips, there is plenty of money slowing in.
