Check Your Privilege

You mentioned the SDS and you well know that it was the father of the WU by way of its RYM wing.

SDS birthed a lot of organizations. Anyway, WU is excluded from my point by additional way of their refusal to cooperate with anyone.

As for the BPP never committing terrorism, that's a lie. Members of the BPP assassinated people

Their involvement in that crime was never proven. Anyway, I never said they didn't kill or hurt anyone.

Although what a bizarre article. He tries to compare the BPP to the perpetrators of the Katyn massacre because...reasons?


Former Panther. Also, so what?

Now this is terrorism: http://eserver.org/courses/spring97/76100o/readings/davis.html

I wonder if you're going to withdraw or stand by your racism and literal use of Nazi racial terminology in your denunciations of the Panthers above?
 
It seems a bit of a stretch to describe assassination as 'not terrorism'. What is assassination but a way to terrify those like the victim that they might be next?
 
It seems a bit of a stretch to describe assassination as 'not terrorism'. What is assassination but a way to terrify those like the victim that they might be next?

First, it's not clear that the Panthers were even behind it.

Second, even if they were, there's a huge difference between an assassination and a murder. A public official is assassinated for political gain; Dr. King was assassinated, Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated; a murder is absent of those things. A group of people, either some or all of whom belong to the same organization, killing someone doesn't automatically make it an assassination or terrorism.

The purpose of terrorism is to terrorize. That doesn't mean that every [belabored definition] remotely political act that inspires fear in someone is terrorism.
 
Their involvement in that crime was never proven. Anyway, I never said they didn't kill or hurt anyone.

Three members of the BPP murdered Alex Rackley on orders from Bobby Seale because they believed Rackley was a turncoat. BPP members also attempted to kill Crystal Gray and Nelson Malloy to save Newton from prosecution. The involvement of BPP members in those crimes is undisputed. Rackley's death and the attempted murders of Gray and Malloy were both done in the interests of the BPP and its leadership.

That's assassination. I'm not sure what else you call it.
 
I can't help but feel you're applying dramatically different standards than you'd normally use when agents of the state are acquitted of killing (black) people, or when governments order people killed.
 
I can't help but feel you're applying dramatically different standards than you'd normally use when agents of the state are acquitted of killing (black) people, or when governments order people killed.

That may be true. But then I am against capitalist state terror and support proletarian violence against it, so... :dunno:

Kimbro, Sams, and McLuscas all admitted to killing Rackley and Forbes admitted to attempting to assassinate Gray.

Neither of those things appear in that article. :confused:

I noticed you're still sidestepping your having called a group of Black people "degenerate thugs."
 
Neither of those things appear in that article. :confused:

The interview with Forbes in the link discusses his attempted killing of Gray. Do a find command for "assassination attempt charge." Note that he took that task upon himself specifically because of his role as a leader in the BPP.


I noticed you're still sidestepping your having called a group of Black people "degenerate thugs."

I call murderers degenerate thugs because they are.
 
Your victim-blaming is disgusting.
I'm not blaming the victim, I'm blaming people like you for patronizing "insert-non-white-male-straight-category-of-people-here" for your own sense of self-righteousness while doing nothing to help them or anyone else & simply contributing to divisiveness in our society. Want to help people? Start treating them as individuals & listening to their individual problems rather than lumping them into little boxes to feed your bloated ego. The black/gay/whathaveyou community doesn't want or need you to be all hypersenstive on their behalf.
 
I think he's protesting the inclusion of "degenerate" in that description moreso than the thug part, since it suggests a genetic influence on behavior.

Humph.

If it salves the reader, please feel free to append "moral" in front of the objectionable word.
 
That may be true. But then I am against capitalist state terror and support proletarian violence against it, so... :dunno:

I understand that, but does that require lazy thinking? Can you not say something like 'terrorism can be justified in a good cause', or even 'well-intentioned people have done evil in the past, but that shouldn't blacken the name of their ideals', rather than flip-flopping between ideas on things like how reliable you consider the justice system, or how far groups and institutions should be held accountable for the actions of their members?
 
I call murderers degenerate thugs because they are.

No, you're calling Black murderers degenerate thugs.

Betcha don't call police officers that when they kill people on behalf of the white supremacist state.

I think he's protesting the inclusion of "degenerate" in that description moreso than the thug part, since it suggests a genetic influence on behavior (a favored excuse among racist thought).

Thug is still racist, but it's not literally-Nazi-racial-theory racist like "degenerate" is. Degenerate is an outright declaration of the sub-humanity of the other person.

I'm not blaming the victim, I'm blaming people like you for patronizing "insert-non-white-male-straight-category-of-people-here" for your own sense of self-righteousness while doing nothing to help them or anyone else & simply contributing to divisiveness in our society. Want to help people? Start treating them as individuals & listening to their individual problems rather than lumping them into little boxes to feed your bloated ego. The black/gay/whathaveyou community doesn't want or need you to be all hypersenstive on their behalf.

I'd take the time to refute this, but since it's so divorced from reality as to be meaningless, I'll suffice to say that you're willful ignorance does far more to hurt us than any imaginable damage that might come from your non-existent praxis you're attributed to us.

I understand that, but does that require lazy thinking? Can you not say something like 'terrorism can be justified in a good cause', or even 'well-intentioned people have done evil in the past, but that shouldn't blacken the name of their ideals', rather than flip-flopping between ideas on things like how reliable you consider the justice system, or how far groups and institutions should be held accountable for the actions of their members?

There's no flip-flopping. Justice is never impartial; the law is a superstructural expression of actually-existing material relations. It is always biased in favor of the class that rules the state. I'm against capitalist justice because I'm against the capitalist state. If their conception of justice can, at times, be twisted to help oppressed peoples, then that's great and we'll do it. But I'm not going to play to a false sense of impartiality.

The police, being instruments of state oppression, are necessarily the enemy of the oppressed. In the context of the United States, where oppressed nationalities are formed into internal colonies, the police appear not merely as enforcers of the law, but as an occupying army. They behave as such; the BPP were among the first to respond in kind (and to inspire many others to do the same), which is why such opprobrium is heaped upon them [see the racist comments above in this thread] and the state went to such lengths to destroy them.
 
Thug is still racist, but it's not literally-Nazi-racial-theory racist like "degenerate" is. Degenerate is an outright declaration of the sub-humanity of the other person.

Thug is only racist in context. Elsewhere thugs are muscle-for-hire or muscle-for-opportunity aka bandits, and in the Mises crowd.. statists.
 
Thug is only racist in context. Elsewhere thugs are muscle-for-hire or muscle-for-opportunity aka bandits, and in the Mises crowd.. statists.

Right. Thug in Britain does not mean what it means in the US (although that is changing and it is becoming increasingly racialized there too). But in the US it has essentially become the new N-word. And we [he] is American and we are talking about Afro-Americans.
 
No, you're calling Black murderers degenerate thugs.

Any offense you feel should be directed at those who hide behind moral principles while secretly raping, stabbing, shooting, and killing people. Not at my off the cuff choice of words.
 
Right. Thug in Britain does not mean what it means in the US (although that is changing and it is becoming increasingly racialized there too). But in the US it has essentially become the new N-word. And we [he] is American and we are talking about Afro-Americans.

It's not exactly new that people have a dislike for pejoratives (mis?)applied to them. Racial conflation can be an attempt to deflect the blow.
 
You've thrown up a smoke screen of indignation to occlude the fact that the BPP became a cadre of murders.

It is not worthy of your admiration. Whatever virtue the BPP had at one point was destroyed by its subsequent actions. If you are looking for organizations to hold up as exemplars of cross-interest cooperation, you could do far better than the BPP.
 
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