Child Abuse "On The Verge Of Torture" In The Name Of Christ

[Lone Wolf]

Not once has it been made clear to me how pointing out the sins of Christians (*actual Christians, not Hitler, who was, as demonstrated, not) is somehow proof that Christianity is immoral or false.

It doesn't.
But, given certain other conditions, it can prove that a particular brand of Christianity is immoral. Like the brand described in the OP.

 

[WindFish]

Leaving aside what's probably a really stupid understanding of what "Catholic" and "heresy" mean: "It is a nonsense to state that Hitler (or any of the Nazis) adhered to Christianity of this form." Not definitive enough?

Okay, what does Catholic and heresy mean then because I was sure it meant not following the one true Christian faith to which Catholics don't so therefore they are heretics.

But there isn't proof that Hilter was an irreligious person or an atheist

He actually frequently said he wasn't a Christian, too. I wonder what that means? Surely it can't mean that the most infamous demagogue and backstabber in history wasn't 100% honest and truthful every moment of his life?

Prove it

 

[Phrossack]

Milord doth permit me to harvest mine turnips pon his land, doth pay to maintain the holy Church among us, and doth shield me from the maraudings of yonder vikings; thusly I cannot think to imagine a world lacking in our most esteemed hereditary aristocrats.

And hwæt, pray tell, doſt ðou propoſe in its place? Hoƿ elſe mighten ƿe defend our lands from yonder cyningrikes, fund places of learning, create and enforce laƿs, and ſo forÞ? I took ðee for a communiſt, not no ſilly anarchiſt!

Spoiler :

And what, pray tell, do you propose in its [the state's] place? How else could we defend our lands from other countries, fund schools, create and enforce laws, and so forth? I thought you were a communist, not a silly anarchist!

 

[Borachio]

But certainly Hitler was a product of an essentially Christian culture, wasn't he?

 

[LightSpectra]

It doesn't.
But, given certain other conditions, it can prove that a particular brand of Christianity is immoral. Like the brand described in the OP.

No argument there.

Okay, what does Catholic and heresy mean then because I was sure it meant not following the one true Christian faith to which Catholics don't so therefore they are heretics.

The word 'heresy' doesn't even have much meaning outside of a episcopal hierarchy. It means you're publicly teaching a falsehood while claiming to have the apostolic authority of the Church.

Proof that Catholicism is not the one true Christian faith?

Prove it

how Kafkaesque my life has become if I have to prove that Hitler ever told a lie in his life.

 

[LightSpectra]

But certainly Hitler was a product of an essentially Christian culture, wasn't he?

Only in the loosest possible sense of that wording, since everything Hitler lived for was contra Christianity and in favor of his own egomania. Might as well say that Charles Manson was the product of an essentially secular culture, even though he rebelled against it every way he could.

Edit: Actually, no, I change my mind. I wouldn't ever describe Austria and Germany in the early 1900s to be "essentially Christian".

 

[kochman]

a) The person in question is a confirmed liar.

Not to mention insane maniac.

Okay, what does Catholic and heresy mean then because I was sure it meant not following the one true Christian faith to which Catholics don't so therefore they are heretics.

There were tons of things he said against Christianity that didn't focus on the RCC.
See this post as well:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11954717&postcount=79

But there isn't proof that Hilter was an irreligious person or an atheist

No, he was more of a pagan revivalist.

But certainly Hitler was a product of an essentially Christian culture, wasn't he?

Sure, so were some amazingly great people, and there have been good and bad people from all religious backgrounds pretty much.
You could just as easily blame it on being from a germanic background, or whatever... if this was just due to Christianity, it would only occur in Christian cultures.

 

[Borachio]

^^Fair enough. Though I expect Manson might also have been product of a Christian culture, or some other nominal culture. I don't know enough about him. (Actually, I feel I do know enough, thank you. Sometimes I don't need to know things about certain people.)

 

[WindFish]

Proof that Catholicism is not the one true Christian faith?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglicanism

how Kafkaesque my life has become if I have to prove that Hitler ever told a lie in his life.

Well, you have been saying that Hitler wasn't a Christian despite the evidence in Mein Kampf

 

[LightSpectra]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglicanism

Every one of your posts makes me laugh harder and harder. Thank you for your trolling, it's considerably lightened up this otherwise dark thread.

Well, you have been saying that Hitler wasn't a Christian despite the evidence in Mein Kampf

That continues to be a good point, because assuredly a political manifesto by the most infamous demagogue and backstabber in history would contain nothing but truth and enlightenment in it.

 

[Borachio]

^^ Hey. There is no evidence in Mein Kampf. Of anything. None. Except an awful lot of rambling nonsense. Plenty evidence of that.

This is turning into a surrealist thread.

 

[LightSpectra]

I don't know what you're talking about, if the most infamous demagogue and backstabber in history says he's a Christian, then he must be. Because the most infamous demagogue and backstabber in history would never lie to his faithful populace, would he?

Also

Well, you have been saying that Hitler wasn't a Christian despite the evidence in Mein Kampf

You're officially never allowed to criticize a fundamentalist Bible Christian, ever.

 

[Borachio]

I do believe he would lie to his faithful populace. For their own good, naturally.

 

[WindFish]

You're officially never allowed to criticize a fundamentalist Bible Christian, ever.

Why not?


Wait I know, its because you're desperate to paint Hitler as a godless irrelgious person but can't prove it.

Its okay hunnie, your secret is safe with me.

 

[carmen510]

I went from page 1 to page 3 (I have 40 posts per page).

Nice to know that Godwin's Law is still in full effect here in The Tavern.

 

[LightSpectra]

Why not?

Because you take everything written in a certain book at face value and use circular nonsense arguments to resist any protestations that there's room for nonliteral meaning or that its context should be considered with other documents and contemporary events.

Actually, come to think of it, you're a better fundamentalist than most fundamentalists I've known.

 

[WindFish]

Because you take everything written in a certain book at face value and use circular nonsense arguments to resist any protestations that there's room for nonliteral meaning or that its context should be considered with other documents and contemporary events.

Considering that faith is a personal thing, its fair to ask no?

Actually, come to think of it, you're a better fundamentalist than most fundamentalists I've known.

Not really because I'm not subject to blind faith

 

[LightSpectra]

Considering that faith is a personal thing, its fair to ask no?

I'm not sure if dein Führer would agree that faith is a personal thing.

Not really because I'm not subject to blind faith

You're quite set on the notion that Hitler was a Christian on absolutely nothing but that he said he was, even though he also said he wasn't. That's surprisingly even blinder than actual fideism.

 

[WindFish]

I'm not sure if dein Führer would agree that faith is a personal thing.

No but hes an evil man so no-one cares what he would agree about

You're quite set on the notion that Hitler was a Christian on absolutely nothing but that he said he was. That's about as close to fideism as it gets.

He was raised one and his book says so, you have to prove it wrong

 

[Borachio]

It is really hard to tell isn't it? But "by their fruits ye shall know them".