Christian afterlife

What are your thoughts on my "interpretation"?

  • I've NOT heard of your explanation before, I think it's right

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    6
Do I or you have any reason to say that the Jehovas witnesses in this case are not just being clear about what's a more fundamental point in christianity?

I once asked here about if people got ascencion day off work. One person expressed he'd not heard of it before, and suspected it to be a fringe thing of smaller christian sects (like JW), but the ascencion is a central thing, and the date marked by every single denomination

I didn't think it was clear as a Christian and the Catholic Church clearly doesn't either. There is a theme of a spiritual reality distinct from the material world, which I suspect has origins in syncretic, classical metaphysics. I was never that curious about it personally, because I didn't a have a strong belief in the dead being able to observe life, which would make the time of the afterlife less significant. And if it's eternal, what difference does a few years, centuries, millenia, geological or astronomic ages make?

As for Ascension Day, I see that it is formally exalted, I don't see why it would be worth celebrating more than Easter, Good Friday, Pentecost, Christmas or whatever the holiday about Gabriel visiting Mary is called. Maybe if one focuses whatever Jesus started doing after ascending to Heaven, it's more significant, but I think he ascended because he had already accomplished the work of his incarnation. Although maybe this does demonstrate a difference between formal Christianity and popular Christianity. One of my teachers told us that Easter was the most important holiday in the Church's calendar. I don't know what to make of that information. Be slightly more Christian on that day? Similarly, the attributed importance of Ascension Day is easily forgetable without celebratory traditions.
 
I can make RD if you want. tbh I'm not sure what your question is or what you are looking for from posters. Help me out.
first question was is it only me who thought this

then there's the topic of whether it's one or the other. You can easily say "christianity is diverse". But like, for example catholosism I think is the biggest branch, and in general has very clear official positions on this kind of stuff one way or the other. Does anybody know anything about that?

What scenarios have people experienced the one interpretation or the other.

Maybe why you think one view is more dominating

to some extent I expected surprise, questions like "why would you think that"

but it boils down to whether you agree with me or not. of course not in that the thing itself is true, but that it's a more proper presentation of what christianity actually contains.

I guess if people think they have something to say. To some extent also a popularity barometer.

I mean you've only said that christianity is diverse and then like focused on details I think are unimportant. I can ask you, is this "interpretation" completely foreign to you? Have you heard of it somewhere, and in what contexts? Is it interesting?

I guess one peripheral thing to me in this is that, in popular imagination now, a soul is sort of a ghost operating a machine body, and that what you really are is your ghost. But my idea here, and probably some other things, like lead me to think that the actual christian idea is that there is no seperation of soul and body. A human is a thing of flesh and blood, and like to have eternal life is very literal in this sense, like walking around. I find this kinda interesting, especially because it clashes with modern notions. And I have for some years now been thinking about like, I guess religious or spiritual conceptions that don't have anythign ethereal to it. But I'm kinda stuck in my head on that. I guess it could be broader on that point, rather than this one specific point, but I tried something. I had some inspiration and I wanted to test it.

I have had another question about heads of government, which I really need a sort of expert to weigh in on, to know for certain. I guess this deviates but like on the question of what do I want the people I ask to say this feels connected in my mind. I guess I'm just doing something suboptimal in lieu of other options

I think I am right, in some way. I want to share this thought. I want people to think about it. In some stupid way I want to challenge cultural norms. But yea like how will people react, what will they say, what can they say.

I would I guess however prefer the thread to be abandoned and forgotten rather than people reiterating refutations of minute points. Several people now have challenged what I said about the rapture. Do that about the corporeal ressurection of the dead at end times instead
 
I didn't think it was clear as a Christian and the Catholic Church clearly doesn't either. There is a theme of a spiritual reality distinct from the material world, which I suspect has origins in syncretic, classical metaphysics. I was never that curious about it personally, because I didn't a have a strong belief in the dead being able to observe life, which would make the time of the afterlife less significant. And if it's eternal, what difference does a few years, centuries, millenia, geological or astronomic ages make?

As for Ascension Day, I see that it is formally exalted, I don't see why it would be worth celebrating more than Easter, Good Friday, Pentecost, Christmas or whatever the holiday about Gabriel visiting Mary is called. Maybe if one focuses whatever Jesus started doing after ascending to Heaven, it's more significant, but I think he ascended because he had already accomplished the work of his incarnation. Although maybe this does demonstrate a difference between formal Christianity and popular Christianity. One of my teachers told us that Easter was the most important holiday in the Church's calendar. I don't know what to make of that information. Be slightly more Christian on that day? Similarly, the attributed importance of Ascension Day is easily forgetable without celebratory traditions.
you're doing the thing I complained about. You post so much about ascencion day, which doesn't really matter for the discussion.
I shouldn't clarify but okay, maybe I used the word "central" too losely. I'm not saying it's more important than easter. but it is a holyday, it's marked on the calendar, it's observed by all denominations.
I didnt' fully read that paragraph because I don't care more about it in this context

what you say in the beginning is more interesting, and ties somewhat into something I said in my previous huge post. Spiritual reality distinct from material world. That I think is neoplatonism, which was incorporated into christianity.

I guess my interpretation of the afterlife here is a christianity without neoplatonism. Is this something I'm creating in my mind now, or was there actually before this time a more material christianity, that could have something like a physical kingdom of god on a physically altered earth?

I'm just spitballing. I guess I should read books instead but I'm a dumbass
 
Authoritative is bad ! I was not send by the "Papa" , I was not send by anyone, what I've said is my own, and not back up by some moldy ancient scroll., Look for the answers within Yourself ;) They are already there.
 
Whoa there is a lot to consider here and I will need some time to fully understand what you're asking. I can however say that in response to your statement of the rapture not being in the bible, it truly is.

The prophet Elijah was raptured in a fiery chariot and taken straight up into heaven. He never experienced death.

Noah's ark was a kind of rapture type. The ark represents the Lord Jesus and those who went on the ark did not experience the flood but were rescued from it.

In the New Testament we have a few examples as well.
See 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Edit: What does RD and DE mean when you create a thread?
okay so like elijahs rapture (and Jesus' at the afformentioned ascencion day) is like a seperate event from the end times thing. same with the flood. anyway again that's not important
I started to think about elijah's thing in connection with the afterlife but now we're sort of in judaism

Anyway so

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I don't know what shew means
but I feel especially with 52 there: suddenly (after all these years) the dead shall rise, changed. Can this not be that the dead rise from the grave? in a very literal sense?

RD means "real discussion", which is basically meant to be moderated more strictly to discuss a topic, unlike regular threads that can be more floating conversations

DE means the thread should be in german lol, that's pretty abandoned now

sorry if I'm mean, I am honestly happy you said you'd think about it
 
Authoritative is bad ! I was not send by the "Papa" , I was not send by anyone, what I've said is my own, and not back up by some moldy ancient scroll., Look for the answers within Yourself ;) They are already there.
okay fine but will the dead rise from their graves or not
 
two (three?) things for a bad post:

I was reminded of neoplatonism. I read about it in high school, but I only remember the gist of it, and haven't looked into it since. Among all the things I feel bad about not knowing, here's another.
Which reminded me of me hearing somewhere someone (a professor or something) that in the middle ages or so the "intelligensia" of europe basically worked to merge the greek philosophy with christianity, and that this was a succesful project. And I'm kinda bitter about that, I wish things were different and to me more interesting. These are masturbatory thoughts of me, really

another thing about what I want from posters, it suddenly dawned on me right now that I'm essentially doing the steven crowder "change my mind" thing
 
Not as far as I know. They never died, they live in your memory , in ours memory and if You doubt that ask them something only You will know, if You believe it;s true it will happen - to hell with science ;) Enlightened science only tells us what we cannot do, but rejects the possibility that of which we might do.
 
If you are really interested in what what that hippie Jesus is alleged to have said on the subject of the afterlife, read the Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the first four books of the New Testament. Most of the rest of the NT is based on Paul's teachings and letters to various groups of Christians in Greece.

Basically, Jesus was fairly vague about it except that it would happen, and those who did not accept God would be forever separated from God the Fathers, and that those who accepted God would join Jesus in Heaven. One could interpret this as meaning Heaven is effing awesome! and God is totally into spoiling his new Heavenly children. But the point of religious tomes is to be just vague enough that believers can interpret them in enough ways to allow the adherent to justify any action.

There are literally dozens of Protestant denominations in the US alone, not to mention different denominations on other continents, with quite different interpretations of what really happens after death. Trying to pin down one totally agreed upon version is impossible, and the template is empty enough to fill in any BS one wants.
 
"Cannot do" my ass ! At some point someone probably said to Wright Brothers they cannot fly and guess what ? Someone said we cannot have radio or electricity or wheel !!! Are we gonna listen to them or move forward ?!
 
If the timescale is Godly, rather than manmade, who is to say the earth rising into the air is not the evaporation of the planet from the sun's expansion? Or something else entirely. Maybe the universe reforms differently. Who knows? Later is specific enough.
 
There are things that unite denominations. Like you can't object to jesus having died and ressurected and be a christian. And also some denominations are older, and that's also a thing that you can look at, what the others say

anyway so

Basically, Jesus was fairly vague about it except that it would happen, and those who did not accept God would be forever separated from God the Fathers, and that those who accepted God would join Jesus in Heaven.
so what's heaven? I, and I think most others living today, think in some way the sky. But like, I've also heard about "the heavenly kingdom". So I've been thinking things like heaven is basically an adjective, and that the actual afterlife is here

guess that can be wrong

I appreciate what you say though. But I guess I care less about what is more attributed to jesus than what "the church" has been teaching

There is a theme of a spiritual reality distinct from the material world, which I suspect has origins in syncretic, classical metaphysics.
Without much more to add, at least right now, I feel this is the most important thing that has been said, and that the problem I've presented in some way is just windowdressing to this problem. I talked about it earlier, and I've gotten myself into trying to think about it very physically, I guess because that' interesting to me (in a similar way about wine and bread being jesus' body), but like, maybe the neoplatonic stuff is more central than I think

I recently heard from a buddhist saying there's some notions about the myths and culture and all that to that religion is in some way windowdressing to something else, a philosophy or whatever. And I'm wondering now if christianity is that too, in a way. I feel like most believers don't think of it as such, but I'm suspecting there's something in the theology about that
 
"Cannot do" my ass ! At some point someone probably said to Wright Brothers they cannot fly and guess what ? Someone said we cannot have radio or electricity or wheel !!! Are we gonna listen to them or move forward ?!
If the timescale is Godly, rather than manmade, who is to say the earth rising into the air is not the evaporation of the planet from the sun's expansion? Or something else entirely. Maybe the universe reforms differently. Who knows? Later is specific enough.

I don't know what you two mean. I don't even understand what or who you're answering
 
If we're of the matter of the earth - dust as it's been put, right? We were dust, we live, we die, then our physical bodies are again, dust. From which our children rise. Right? One cycle of reusing the dust, alive, dead, alive again - same dust, different bodies, different lives.

So we're talking about what will happen to this physical stuff, right? If you think of the timescale in a Godly sense, a universal sense, rather than what makes sense to use in the span of human lives or how many times the ball has spun around... then sure. The dust will all wind up again somewhere somewhen making something cool. I just don't know how or when. I can see far enough to know that we rot and become grass, but all the ages of the universe?
 
How much of this is what you think rather than like "christian party line"?

I guess I'd always assumed the eternal life as being the individual lives forever. This is the thing in both the views I posted at the start. Now I see you're expressing another form of eternal life. And it is interesting, I think, but is this really what christianity is about, rather than individuals getting to live forever?

was going to say something that just reiterates that. Like what I think christianity is about is clear, but I am actually confused now, and wondering
 
You've unintentionally inspired me. As Farm Boy said we are literally children of the stars because every atom in our body belongs to a long lost dead star - that is true. Are we ? or we are not ? Why do we think ? - that is the question :O
 
How much of this is what you think rather than like "christian party line"?

I guess I'd always assumed the eternal life as being the individual lives forever. This is the thing in both the views I posted at the start. Now I see you're expressing another form of eternal life. And it is interesting, I think, but is this really what christianity is about, rather than individuals getting to live forever?

was going to say something that just reiterates that. Like what I think christianity is about is clear, but I am actually confused now, and wondering

It's exactly the party line. Exactly the way you are asking. Death cannot stop true love. All it can do is delay it for a while.
 
I feel you're skirting away from my question about individual existence

I walk on the earth now, and could potentially like worship god or whatever. My great great grandfather not so. I live in a way he does not, I think this is clear. Can he live again in a way I live now, or can he only live in the sense he lives through me now?
 
First one, then the other.

I don't know why it would be the same, though. Living things change. If they didn't, I don't think we'd understand them to be alive.
 
I feel you're skirting away from my question about individual existence

I walk on the earth now, and could potentially like worship god or whatever. My great great grandfather not so. I live in a way he does not, I think this is clear. Can he live again in a way I live now, or can he only live in the sense he lives through me now?

Reincarnation o as a ghost ?
 
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