[R&F] Civ of the Week: Egypt

[Cedbird77]

I am surprised. I thought these discussions were supposed to be about how to play the civ better. If it is just going to be a bash the civ, why bother?

I am really enjoying this thread. People ade being constructive in their criticism. Even if they are just giving gripes I am learning from their points. The counter points as well.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I've came up with another strategy which gave me even better results. It probably does require a decent starting location though. The key is going for the classical golden age with strong faith output (I even got a religion). Egypt is literally build for early monumentality because they can generate the faith with desert folklore (desert bias) and the sphinx. Settlers, builders and traders are also cheaper to purchase with gold which is obviously amazing for commercial hub spam and Egypt's bonuses!!

Starting location (Settler on plains hill and two 2/2 tiles in 1st ring, pretty good!), save file is attached:

Spoiler :

View attachment 496092

With Monumentality, the 3rd settler only costs 390 gold instead of 440, I bought the 4th one for 205 faith! This way you have 4 cities relatively early but only have to produce 1 of them. The timing works best on Deity because the classical era starts earlier. On lower levels, it's easier to reach the golden age though.

Spoiler :

View attachment 496096View attachment 496098

My religion (I got the 2nd to last prophet on turn 54):

Spoiler :

View attachment 496093

Screenshot turn 100 with 9 cities, a religion (no 2nd prohept yet) and 200 gold per turn (including 90 gpt from a peace deal) and rising (2 unfinished markets and harbor)! :

Spoiler :

View attachment 496099

How did I get the +24 era score for the classical golden age?:
1. Destroy two barb camps: +6
2. Make contact with three civs: +3
3. Four goodie guts: +4
4. Holy site with +5 adjacency: +3
5. Sphinx: +4
6. Settle on a desert tile: +1
7. Build campus with +3 adjacency: +3

If you need more points, you can also:
1. Build a Mayannu: +4
2. Find a city state first and send Amani: +2

Build Order:
Capital: Scout Scout Slinger Settler, Builder, Holy Site, Shrine, Prayer project
2nd city: Rushbuy Monument, Builder -> Holy Site -> Shrine -> Slinger -> chop Campus (use Magnus and overflow if you want to get the best results)
After that: Military with Agoge, rushbuy trader and send it to the scientific CS preferably for the +2 science per turn.
Double Scout for getting early era score, Slinger (or Warrior) for clearing barb camps, 2 monuments are necessary for getting Amani/Magnus in time for either Mayannu/district chopping or CS era score.

Tech Order: Astrology (can abort if you don't find a natural wonder in time but don't wait too long) -> Mining -> Wheel (for Mayannus) -> Writing -> Currency (unless you really need Animal Husbandry/Irrigation/Archery)
Civic Order: Foreign Trade (switch to Craftsmanship if you don't find a 2nd continent) -> Craftsmanship -> Early Empire -> Mysticism if you need that envoy/Amani to get more era score

Next steps: Pick Monumentality golden age, rushbuy 3rd settler, faithbuy 4th settler, found the religion, build Commercial Hubs, build Mayannus with Agoge and use the overflow to chop markets with Magnus, either spam more Mayannus and attack your neighbour or expand with settlers and faith-/rushbuy builders/traders whenever possible. In my game I went for a hybrid. I used 3 Mayannus and took 2 cities from Korea and made a good peace deal. Meanwhile I built one settler in each of the 4 cities (with the +50% settler card).
After that try to get the medieval golden age (science from commercial hubs) by using Amani, settle one city on the coast for the +2 era score from a galley, found and expand the religion etc.
Ideally all your trade routes should go to a scientific CS or a civ like Korea to counter the lack of early campuses.

Religion:
1. With choral music and two early shrines, you get +4 culture. Pretty good. Culture progression doesn't slow down.
2. Defender of the faith: This is debatable of course but it's a very nice passive bonus, even for conquering. Mayannus are already strong but with +10 combat strength, you are 100% save from any possible AI attack.

Government: As government I chose Autocracy (nice early boost and you can switch to classical republic a little later) and Audience Chamber (I needed the housing to grow my core cities and Egypt can rushbuy builders anyway).
Governors: For chaining two early golden ages, I think Amani is more useful than lvl 2 Magnus. On this map I didn't really care about losing population because housing was an issue. So the order was Magnus -> Amani -> Liang



I also attached the save file if anyone wants to try the buildorder on this map. Standard speed, standard map size, continents, Deity.

I'm not having much luck with your improved strategy. I think I will try again, but settle a bit to the south.

Spoiler NotHavingMuchLuck :

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I'm not having much luck with your improved strategy. I think I will try again, but settle a bit to the south.

This one seems to be going considerably better. 3 goody huts so far granting me a recon unit, a free builder, & a boost for the wheel (which I'm hoping to leverage against the Koreans). And 3 free envoys for 1st contact in the VERY early game!

Spoiler BetterLuck :

 

[BarbarianHunter]

This one seems to be going considerably better. 3 goody huts so far granting me a recon unit, a free builder, & a boost for the wheel (which I'm hoping to leverage against the Koreans). And 3 free envoys for 1st contact in the VERY early game!

This bit doesn't seem to be going all that well either.

Spoiler ChalkAnotherOneUp :

 

[KayAU]

This is the status of my own Egypt game:

Spoiler :

I feel it is going okay. A brief summary:

• I built the Temple of Artemis near my capital, which I want to make very tall. It's in a nice spot, currently touching one camp and three pastures, with another Ivory resource within range to the east.
• I got a Pantheon early, and went for God of the Open Sky to gather that important early culture from my pastures.
• My first district was a Campus, which has prevented me from falling behind in science.
• I founded my second city, Thebes, on top of a Fur resource very near the Khmer capital. This was a bit of a gamble, and loyalty dropped quite low before I got my first governor in place. It is perfectly secure now, though.
• The Classical Era is a Monumentality Golden Age for me, and I cashed in the faith accumulated by my relic to get a settler and an extra builder in Thebes.
• I used Magnus to chop myself some Pyramids in Thebes.
• I founded my third city near the river to the north. It may look like an odd spot to you, but my intention is to secure the surrounding terrain and prevent Tomyris from expanding east. It will grow quickly once I move Magnus there to chop the two wheat resources by the river, and the adjacent forest for some Aqueducts. It is within reach of a Marble resource, which I will buy my way towards.
• I will soon have Magnus established in my capital, and districts will then be coming up quickly. I already have the Campus and Government Plaza in nice spots, and the new Commercial Hub will have great adjacency bonuses.
• My cities are positioned in a way that secures the land to the east, north and south, and I don't believe either Tomyris or Jay will be able to take any territory there without their cities flipping very quickly.
• I am currently first in score, but not by a large margin.

As for how Egypt's abilities have or haven't played a part:

• The 15% construction bonus has not played a large part. My Campus was built in 7 turns instead of 8, which is not a big deal, and I'll save a couple of turns on my Commercial Hubs as well. The Government Plaza construction was not impacted enough to shave any turns off, and neither of the wonders are on rivers.
• I sent my first trade route to the Khmer, to make me a little bit of extra gold, which has been nice. I have done a fair bit of gold purchasing.
• I have not received any incoming trade routes. This is the problem with abilities which I have no direct control over.
• I built a Sphinx for some era points and potentially a slightly higher culture output in Thebes, to help me grab land before the Khmer. It may have been a slight misplay, though, as I suspect I might not need it to get a new Golden Age. I would probably have built more Sphinxes earlier if I didn't have the culture from my Pantheon.
• I am about to unlock the Maryannu, but I don't see it becoming a major part of my military strategy. I'm doing fine with Archers.

 

[RealHuhn]

This bit doesn't seem to be going all that well either.

It looks like you don't follow the build order at all?! Only one scout, no holy sites/campus/commercial hubs, no religion, no slinger, no improved tiles. Also, your city locations aren't optimal. In early game you should always settle near 2food/2production tiles in 1st ring or a combination of high food and 1 food/3production tiles. Settling on a plains hill is also great. If 1st ring isn't possible you should buy a good production tile in 2nd ring. You need the production or the timings are all off. With Egypt, you should also place your 2nd city near a mining resource (like the amber in the south) because you need it for the Wheel eureka. I settled two tiles south of the amber on the desert hill next to the mountains and the river. It's those little things that make you struggle.

I settled on this spot. It's particularly good because the Amber tile is high production with +1 culture. The holy site has +5 adjacency, a possible campus with +3 adjacency and a river for the commercial hub. The gems are a 2nd luxury as well which can be sold. High production, great adjacency bonuses, more culture and stuff to sell. This is what a second city should look like to really get things going. It won't be the best city long term because food is too low but that doesn't matter. At least it can be boosted twice by harvesting those marsh tiles!

Spoiler :

I've got a turn 74 screenshot which is close to your turn 69. I have 5 cities, 2 holy sites with shrines, 1 campus, 1 government plaza, 2 commercial hubs with markets, 3 trade routes, a religion, 3 Maryannus, 2 archers, 2 warriors and I've scouted the whole continent. That's a big difference compared to your slow start. You need better city locations and improve your land faster! And get that golden age of course

Spoiler :

A little later on turn 122 with 10 cities, 333 gold per turn and 122 science mainly because of trade routes and science from commercial hubs (medieval golden age bonus), Forbidden City is almost done already because I could simply rushbuy universities for the Printing eureka. Trajan sends all of his trade routes to me because I bribed him into my short war with Korea. We also have a research alliance. The incoming trade routes to Ra-Kedet give 4 gold per turn each because of a Great Merchant:

Spoiler :

Finally, over 1000 gold per turn on turn 199 . On my way to a cultural victory! I used Reyna to rushbuy theatre squares in slow cities and the absurd gold per turn to rushbuy Archeologists. By the way, after the two early golden ages I got a dark age in Renaissance followed by a heroic age which was actually fantastic. During the dark age my internal trade routes had 6 food/6 production.

Spoiler :

 

[BarbarianHunter]

It looks like you don't follow the build order at all?! Only one scout, no holy sites/campus/commercial hubs, no religion, no slinger, no improved tiles. Also, your city locations aren't optimal. In early game you should always settle near 2food/2production tiles in 1st ring or a combination of high food and 1 food/3production tiles. Settling on a plains hill is also great. If 1st ring isn't possible you should buy a good production tile in 2nd ring. You need the production or the timings are all off. With Egypt, you should also place your 2nd city near a mining resource (like the amber in the south) because you need it for the Wheel eureka. I settled two tiles south of the amber on the desert hill next to the mountains and the river. It's those little things that make you struggle so much.

Let me start by saying, thanks for the tips. I'm usually pretty good about allot of that stuff, but not quite as rigid about settling. I prefer my cities close to one another post R&F. I had logistical problems with the optimal settler position due to the first war with the Koreans, then the surprise war by the Romans (who were Suzerain of the blue city state to the south) . If I recall correctly, this caused logistical problems with settling Shedet. Then, I had so many units after finally repulsing the Romans (killed like 8 or 9 untis), I figured use 'em or lose 'em (the Maryannu's optimal power was ticking away and Korean crossbows were imminent). So I redeclared on the Koreans. 3 or 4 of the chariots had already been destroyed before I called it and submitted the screenshot you saw above.

I settled on this spot. It's particularly good because the Amber tile is high production with +1 culture. The holy site has +5 adjacency, a possible campus with +3 adjacency and a river for the commercial hub. The gems are a 2nd luxury as well which can be sold. High production, great adjacency bonuses, more culture and stuff to sell. This is what a second city should look like to really get things going. It won't be the best city long term because food is too low but that doesn't matter. At least it can be boosted twice by harvesting those marsh tiles!

Spoiler :

View attachment 496189

True enough! I think after using your save the 1st time, settling North on the tobacco, then getting schlacked by the Korean warriors on turn 15, subconsciously, I wanted some payback . I settled the city closer to Ra-Kadet (and the Koreans) in hopes of garnering some loyalty. This was the wrong decision. If for no other reason than it breaks my personal cardinal rule A#1 ---> NEVER attack in the early game into a raiforest region. I should have just defended, and expanded to the south. In the end, I tried to make the terrain conform to my game when I should have adjusted my game to the terrain.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I just realized the game I played in this thread allowed me to unlock the Bromance achievement.

Well, good for something!

 

[KayAU]

Just a final update on my Egypt game, a little bit further in:

Spoiler :

It is now the start of the Medieval period (in 410 BC), and I'm in a Monumentality Golden Age again. I did consider going for Free Inquiry to rush ahead in science, but I'm not really in a hurry. I'm currently in second place in science, and will probably end the era comfortably in the lead. My focus is on building my cities.

I have been focusing on building up my cities and economy, and it has gone well enough. I have started the work of settling the lands to the east and south. Tomyris did try to settle to the north, and as expected, her city flipped, and will be mine in about 5 turns. It is not ideally placed, but that's okay. I chose the location of 4 cities along the coast to the east and south, and started filling them in. The first settler went to the north east, and founded Shedet. Shedet has plenty of wheat resources for both rapid growth through chopping and sustained growth. It has some nice mountains to the west for districts, and two Turtle luxuries within reach.

Another settler is moving south, where it will secure the lands to the south of my capital, near Kabul. This city has some interesting potential as well, with a great Industrial Zone location (by the river, adjacent to four mountains, and potentially two districts on the other side of the river). It also has some options for building the Great Zimbabwe.

I am pondering settling a city in the desert just south of just south of Tomyris' capital. There are some forests I can chop to get Petra, and some pretty nice desert hill tiles, including two with sheep, to work afterwards.

My capital now has the Oracle wonder, and is just a few turns away from getting another district slot. I might actually go for an Encampment rather than an Industrial Zone, as I am approaching my housing limit, and Urbanization is still some way off. This will be that city's fifth district, as there is already a Campus, Commercial Hub, Government Plaza and Theatre Square. Combined with the Oracle, I am generating a fair amount of Great Person Points.

I am doing well in gold, Egypt's extra 4 gold for international trade routes has been the most useful of their abilities for me.

I will not be posting any more updates on this playthrough, as I do consider this game already won. I will be snowballing quickly from here on out.

 

[RealHuhn]

Yep, just to wrap it up as well!

Won peaceful culture VC on turn 229, standard speed. I could have won earlier by rushbuying an army and delete Rome from the map. He had double the culture defense than the rest of the civs and he even beat me to Christo Redentor by 2 turns for crying out loud. I even forgot to rushbuy a builder and boost it with Magnus!! I was mad but I still decided to push Egypt to the max and used the 1000 gold per turn to rushbuy theatre squares, museums, archeologists and even broadcast towers (for 1700 each ), no sweat. Such a fun game. Amazing civ ^^. By the way, I had 3 level 3 alliances at the end. First time I saw those ^^

Spoiler :