Civ-specific ranks collection thread
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Chances of implementation go up significantly if someone compiles a list for every civilization ready for me to include. It's even fine to skip some more difficult civs like Harappa and Polynesia.
But I would prefer if one person does this with a bit more of an editorial perspective that looks toward a consistent standard of what kind of leaders are included.
I don't think actually implementing it will be a big deal - there is just little impetus to when there is little point in doing it because the massive paperwork of finding everyone's list is a requirement.
But I would prefer if one person does this with a bit more of an editorial perspective that looks toward a consistent standard of what kind of leaders are included.
I don't think actually implementing it will be a big deal - there is just little impetus to when there is little point in doing it because the massive paperwork of finding everyone's list is a requirement.
FishFishFish
Warlord
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Here is my attempt at Ethiopia. (Excluding leaders from after Haile Selassie...)
1. Zara Yaqob
2. Ezana
3. Kaleb
4. Menelik II
5. Amda Seyon I
6. Iyasu I
7. Gelawdewos
8. Lalibela
9. Yekuno Amlak
10. Haile Selassie
11. Tewodros II
12. Sarsa Dengel
13. Dawit II
14. Yohannes IV
15. Tekle Giyorgis I
16. 'Ayzur
1. Zara Yaqob
2. Ezana
3. Kaleb
4. Menelik II
5. Amda Seyon I
6. Iyasu I
7. Gelawdewos
8. Lalibela
9. Yekuno Amlak
10. Haile Selassie
11. Tewodros II
12. Sarsa Dengel
13. Dawit II
14. Yohannes IV
15. Tekle Giyorgis I
16. 'Ayzur
Last edited:
This is the sort of thing I'd be happy to coordinate. I'll make a spreadsheet!
Cacaso
Warlord
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1- Dom Pedro II
2- Princesa Isabel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel,_Princess_Imperial_of_Brazil
3- Dom Pedro I
4- José Bonifácio de Andrada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Bonifácio_de_Andrada_e_Silva
5- José Maria da Silva Paranhos Júnior (Baron of the Rio Branco) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Paranhos,_Baron_of_Rio_Branco
6- Getúlio Vargas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getúlio_Vargas
7 - Juscelino Kubitschek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juscelino_Kubitschek
8- Joaquim Nabuco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaquim_Nabuco
9- Oswaldo Aranha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswaldo_Aranha
10- Ulysses Guimarães https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_Guimarães
11- Prudente de Morais https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudente_de_Morais
12- Campos Sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Ferraz_de_Campos_Sales
13- Deodoro da Fonseca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodoro_da_Fonseca
14 - Luís Carlos Prestes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luís_Carlos_Prestes
15 - Arthur Bernardes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Bernardes
16- Collor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Collor_de_Mello
17- Jânio Quadros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jânio_Quadros
18- Adhemar de Barros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhemar_de_Barros
19- Tiririca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca
20- Odorico Paraguaçu https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odorico_Paraguaçu
@Krieger-FS Take a look at this initial list that I did here, maybe you can get it as a base and make one also for us to use at Brazilciv case.
I think about the first 4 there is not much discussion is just seeing the order between them. To the end of the list I took Odorico Paraguaçu which is a literary character who is a caricature of a corrupt politician, and of small thinking, I think it can be perfect to put as last place. In 19th I put the Tiririca for being a clown, and a politician of little representativeness. Then I put Adhemar de Barros (from the motto steals but do), Jânio Quadros (he wanted to give a self -herd and ended up generating political instability and then the military dictatorship) and also the Collor (because of corruption and monetary confiscation) I think these worst, and I think they would be good at the end of the list, but if you have other suggestions feel free to discuss this initial suggestion.
I did not put very current political characters like Lula, Bolsonaro, Dilma, Temer to avoid politicial confusion.
2- Princesa Isabel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel,_Princess_Imperial_of_Brazil
3- Dom Pedro I
4- José Bonifácio de Andrada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Bonifácio_de_Andrada_e_Silva
5- José Maria da Silva Paranhos Júnior (Baron of the Rio Branco) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Paranhos,_Baron_of_Rio_Branco
6- Getúlio Vargas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getúlio_Vargas
7 - Juscelino Kubitschek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juscelino_Kubitschek
8- Joaquim Nabuco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaquim_Nabuco
9- Oswaldo Aranha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswaldo_Aranha
10- Ulysses Guimarães https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_Guimarães
11- Prudente de Morais https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudente_de_Morais
12- Campos Sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Ferraz_de_Campos_Sales
13- Deodoro da Fonseca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodoro_da_Fonseca
14 - Luís Carlos Prestes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luís_Carlos_Prestes
15 - Arthur Bernardes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Bernardes
16- Collor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Collor_de_Mello
17- Jânio Quadros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jânio_Quadros
18- Adhemar de Barros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhemar_de_Barros
19- Tiririca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca
20- Odorico Paraguaçu https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odorico_Paraguaçu
@Krieger-FS Take a look at this initial list that I did here, maybe you can get it as a base and make one also for us to use at Brazilciv case.
I think about the first 4 there is not much discussion is just seeing the order between them. To the end of the list I took Odorico Paraguaçu which is a literary character who is a caricature of a corrupt politician, and of small thinking, I think it can be perfect to put as last place. In 19th I put the Tiririca for being a clown, and a politician of little representativeness. Then I put Adhemar de Barros (from the motto steals but do), Jânio Quadros (he wanted to give a self -herd and ended up generating political instability and then the military dictatorship) and also the Collor (because of corruption and monetary confiscation) I think these worst, and I think they would be good at the end of the list, but if you have other suggestions feel free to discuss this initial suggestion.
I did not put very current political characters like Lula, Bolsonaro, Dilma, Temer to avoid politicial confusion.
We’ll go with 16 leaders per civ, do you think you can take out four of them?
Krieger-FS
Warlord
It is a good list, though I disagree with some names/positions. Considering Leoreth guidelines (so less modern leaders and focus mostly on rulers and heads of governments), I’d suggest the following:
1. Getúlio Vargas
2. Dom Pedro II
3. Juscelino Kubitschek
4. José Bonifácio Andrada
5. Joaquim Nabuco
6. Campos Sales
7. Visconde do Rio Branco
8. Marquês do Paraná
9. Deodoro da Fonseca
10. Epitácio Pessoa
11. Floriano Peixoto
12. Dom Pedro I
13. Artur Bernardes
14. Jânio Quadros
15. Delfim Moreira
16. Policarpo Quaresma or Odorico Paraguaçu
I tried to add some few prime-ministers from the Empire and probably the most obvious difference in our lists is Pedro I position: I put him low because his rule was tumultous after the Independence giving his absolutist impulses, the disastrous war against Argentina and how he was unable to cope political problems in Brazil, leading him to abidicate in favour of his infant son before sailing back to Portugal.
About the last terrible/joke ones: Delfim Moreira was clinically insane and his presidency was short and awful. The last two names are literary characters; Paraguaçu was already explained, but I'd also suggest Policarpo Quaresma, giving his comical and disastrous story trying to make nationalistic reforms.
I don't think most of us are in a position to choose, so which one should it be?
trexeric
(or backwards 'cirexert')
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My go at a Vikings list:
1) Ragnar loðbrók / Ragnar Lodbrok / Ragnar Shaggy-breeches (quintessential semi-legendary Viking king)
2) Knútr inn ríki / Cnut the Great (united the crowns of England, Denmark, and Norway into a "North Sea Empire")
3) Haraldr hárfagri / Harald Fairhair (united Norway, gained a reputation for harshness that drove people to settle Iceland)
4) Sveinn tjúguskegg / Sweyn/Sven Forkbeard (ambitious King of Denmark, ruled Norway by proxy and England briefly before his death)
5) Haraldr harðráði / Harald Hardrada / Harald Hard-ruler (last great Viking king; good King of Norway, less good at claiming other kingdoms)
6) Hrøríkr / Rurik (supposedly invited by Slavs to rule over them in Novgorod; founder of the long-lasting Rurikid Dynasty)
7) Haraldr blátönn / Harald Bluetooth (King of Denmark, converted the country to Christianity, ousted by his son)
8) Óláfr skautkonungr / Olof Skötkonung / Olaf the Swede (king of both Svealand and Götaland in Sweden; first Christian Swedish king)
9) Óláfr Tryggvason / Olaf Tryggvason (short-lived reign spent violently converting Norway to Christianity)
10) Auðr djúpúðga / Aud the Deep-Minded (Norse-Gaelic settler of Iceland; most respected chieftess in Iceland's history)
11) Þorgeirr Ljósvetningagoði / Thorgeir Ljosvetningagodi (Lawspeaker of Iceland who made the controversial decision to convert to Christianity)
12) Eiríkr rauði / Erik the Red (outlawed from Iceland for murder, founds/leads the Greenland colony; tricks people into joining him with the name)
13) Þorfinnr karlsefni / Thorfinn Karlsefni (tried to establish a colony in Vinland... this didn't work out very well)
14) Eiríkr blóðøx / Erik Bloodaxe (only briefly King of Norway, quickly fell out of favor for his despotic tendencies; later career in Britain also fraught)
15) Blót-Sveinn / Blot-Sweyn/Sven / Sven the Sacrificer (propped up as King of Sweden in an unsuccessful pagan revolt against Inge the Elder)
16) Fjölnir / Fjolne (though apparently a decent ruler, this legendary king is most famous for drowning in a vat of mead)
Obviously I stuck to the Viking Age, since the civilization is the Vikings and there's quite enough material in medieval Norse written sources to fully occupy the list. The UU, UB, UP, and UHV are all pretty specific to the Viking Age, so I figured that would be the preference.
My goal was to represent as many corners of the Viking world as possible - Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Vinland, British Isles, Rus', etc. If/when Sweden is introduced in the future, that list should probably restrict itself to Swedish rulers after the Swedish start date.
Bolded are the versions of the names I would probably go with, but that's just personal preference.
I'd be interested to hear any critiques! A lot on here is definitely debatable, particularly given the (sometimes conflicting) sources that we have.
1) Ragnar loðbrók / Ragnar Lodbrok / Ragnar Shaggy-breeches (quintessential semi-legendary Viking king)
2) Knútr inn ríki / Cnut the Great (united the crowns of England, Denmark, and Norway into a "North Sea Empire")
3) Haraldr hárfagri / Harald Fairhair (united Norway, gained a reputation for harshness that drove people to settle Iceland)
4) Sveinn tjúguskegg / Sweyn/Sven Forkbeard (ambitious King of Denmark, ruled Norway by proxy and England briefly before his death)
5) Haraldr harðráði / Harald Hardrada / Harald Hard-ruler (last great Viking king; good King of Norway, less good at claiming other kingdoms)
6) Hrøríkr / Rurik (supposedly invited by Slavs to rule over them in Novgorod; founder of the long-lasting Rurikid Dynasty)
7) Haraldr blátönn / Harald Bluetooth (King of Denmark, converted the country to Christianity, ousted by his son)
8) Óláfr skautkonungr / Olof Skötkonung / Olaf the Swede (king of both Svealand and Götaland in Sweden; first Christian Swedish king)
9) Óláfr Tryggvason / Olaf Tryggvason (short-lived reign spent violently converting Norway to Christianity)
10) Auðr djúpúðga / Aud the Deep-Minded (Norse-Gaelic settler of Iceland; most respected chieftess in Iceland's history)
11) Þorgeirr Ljósvetningagoði / Thorgeir Ljosvetningagodi (Lawspeaker of Iceland who made the controversial decision to convert to Christianity)
12) Eiríkr rauði / Erik the Red (outlawed from Iceland for murder, founds/leads the Greenland colony; tricks people into joining him with the name)
13) Þorfinnr karlsefni / Thorfinn Karlsefni (tried to establish a colony in Vinland... this didn't work out very well)
14) Eiríkr blóðøx / Erik Bloodaxe (only briefly King of Norway, quickly fell out of favor for his despotic tendencies; later career in Britain also fraught)
15) Blót-Sveinn / Blot-Sweyn/Sven / Sven the Sacrificer (propped up as King of Sweden in an unsuccessful pagan revolt against Inge the Elder)
16) Fjölnir / Fjolne (though apparently a decent ruler, this legendary king is most famous for drowning in a vat of mead)
Obviously I stuck to the Viking Age, since the civilization is the Vikings and there's quite enough material in medieval Norse written sources to fully occupy the list. The UU, UB, UP, and UHV are all pretty specific to the Viking Age, so I figured that would be the preference.
My goal was to represent as many corners of the Viking world as possible - Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Vinland, British Isles, Rus', etc. If/when Sweden is introduced in the future, that list should probably restrict itself to Swedish rulers after the Swedish start date.
Bolded are the versions of the names I would probably go with, but that's just personal preference.
I'd be interested to hear any critiques! A lot on here is definitely debatable, particularly given the (sometimes conflicting) sources that we have.
Good list! I guess it makes sense to use only Viking-age figures, even though the leaderheads include e.g. a modern Norwegian prime minister. There are many other civs in a similar situation (e.g. should the Mughal list have modern Pakistani figures? Should the Arabs have modern Saudi/etc. figures?) Probably best to default to the main period the civ is meant to be played in, if there's enough material.
By the way, here's the spreadsheet. It's editable to everyone (for now), so feel free to add leaders and notes, but please don't overwrite anything that's already there. You can add comments or use the space below if you want to suggest changes.
trexeric
(or backwards 'cirexert')
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This was my thought. While the leaderheads have a modern Norwegian, it's only really by default that they represent Norway if they survive long enough. The civ, as it is designed to be played, is representative of Viking Age Scandinavians.
Anyone know if there's any official decision yet on when Sweden will start? Presumably either c. 1250 for the founding of Stockholm and consolidation of Sweden under the House of Bjälbo or 1523, when Sweden becomes independent from the Kalmar Union.
Yeah. I don't want to say that the historical victory is everything that matters in DoC, but it's sort of the expected way to reach the highscore screen. So the leaders chosen here should be reflective of the same time period of the civilization that the UHV is reflective of. The fact that the Vikings have a modern Norwegian leader doesn't change the fact that the civ is centered around the Viking Age. The fact that Egypt gets some sort of afterlife as a Muslim civilization doesn't change that its core is about the ancient Egyptian civilization etc.
Vero Juventini
Chieftain
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That list contradicts several points of the guidelines, mainly about no post-WW2 leaders. Besides, shouldn't we make an exemption about it here? Two Russian UHVs are directly referred to their Soviet period, so including a few of their leaders such as Khruschev or Lenin (and Brezhnev/Gorbachev into 10-16th places) would be nice if we look at it that way. I definitely wouldn't put Stalin here because despite his popularity he's too controversial. Jokey 16th place leaves some room for imagination. I also wouldn't include Rurik as he is a semi-fictional figure with no clear evidence of his existence.
Overall, taking guidelines into consideration, I propose something like this:
1. Peter the Great
2. Ivan III
3. Alexander Nevsky
4. Alexander Suvorov - perhaps the most famous Russian general of the Napoleonic wars, should be included IMO
5. Yaroslav the Wise
6. Alexander II - nice reforms, good diplomacy, the very beginning of industrialization
7. Yermak (Timoveyevich) - conqueror of Siberia widely known in Russian folklore
8. Boris Godunov
9. Elizabeth (Petrovna)
10. Mikhail Romanov
11. Anna Ioannovna / Anne
12. Alexander Kerensky - leader of the Russian Provisional Government of 1917
13. Nicholas II - lost the Russo-Japanese, couldn't stop the revolutions
14. Ivan IV / Ivan the Terrible - lost the Livonian War, left Russia with the "Time of Troubles"
15. False Dmitry I - a Polish who claimed to be a successor of the previous Russian tzar and was legitimate for a short period of time
16. Boris Yeltsin / Alexander Kolchak
Would look a bit differently if you agree on including Soviet leaders here though.
Cacaso
Warlord
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- Apr 9, 2020
- Messages
- 226
Ok, sorry. I forgot it was a list of only 16, my mistake. I will fix it now.
I really liked your list too. I missed putting Princess Isabel on the list, because her decision to sign the Golden Law that ended slavery cost her, what would be her third reign, as this is a measure of extreme relevance in the history of Brazil, and still that at great cost she made a decision that was good for her people (particularly black Brazilians), and that is the definition of statesmanship. I believe that due to the greatness/courage of making this decision, she deserves to be on the list and in a prominent position. So I think he could come in as 3rd and put Juscelino Kubtischek in 5th.
As for Vargas and Dom Pedro II there are no discussions, they are too important for the history of Brazil. 1st and 2nd places are agreed.
As for the end of the list, I agree. I think names like Tiririca and Collor can leave, to join Policarpo Quaresma and Delfim Moreira. So I think we can leave Odorico Paraguaçu as last, and then Policarpo as 15th
As for Dom Pedro I, I agree with you he had merit for independence, but after that it was just disasters.
So @Krieger-FS I think we could reach the final list that way, do you agree?
1. Getulio Vargas
2. Dom Pedro II
3. Princesa Isabel
4. José Bonifácio de Andrada
5. Juscelino Kubitschek
6- Joaquim Nabuco
7. Visconde do Rio Branco
8. Marquês do Paraná (preferably) or Campos Sales.
9. Deodoro da Fonseca
10. Floriano Peixoto
11. Dom Pedro I
12. Arthur Bernardes
13. Jânio Quadros
14. Delfim Moreira
15. Policarpo Quaresma
16. Odorico Paraguaçu
Oh there should absolutely be Soviet-era leaders. I think an ideal list samples from all over the time period over which the civ is meant to be played, which for Russia (after the upcoming split from the Rus') is probably something like 1250-2000. I think living persons, current political figures, and 20th century figures should be handled with care, but I think it's fine to have them.
Not sure what to do with Stalin and effective dictators in general. Hitler is a no, but Stalin... I think I'd be okay with not having him in the list.
I think it's better to have at most one pure joke character (so I'd prefer just one fictional character to be selected), but otherwise I like this list too! I agree with the inclusion of Princess Isabel.
ozqar
King
What's the cutoff date after which modern leaders should not be included?
Yeah, I put them in the spreadsheet already. Though there's one mild complication in that I don't think the new civs' spawn dates and expected "game end" date are decided yet, are they?
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