Ryansinbela
Emperor
Why are Venice and Enrico listed as new
Civ VII civs
- Thread starter Vahnstad
- Start date
Terminacarnival
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2019
- Messages
- 29
I am going to challenge myself and try to apply the approach of one third existing, one third altered and one third new to create a varied (But admittedly unconventional roster).
So out of 24 civs, 8 will be civs than have to be included, 8 will be civs that either are somewhat-regular or returning civs with distinct "flavors" or both, and 8 will considered new. And with a few exceptions I have tried to avoid leaders seen before. My big lesson from the exercise? It would make people mad until DLC corrects the issue.
Returning
1.America (John F. Kennedy) I could also go with Eisenhower, Jefferson or even a curveball non-president like Ben Franklin, but a space race focused America seems worth a shot.
2.Babylon (Hammurabi) Sumer is not the same; that opinion is a hill I will die on. And if Babylon does lose out on a perfect attendance streak due to VI, then bringing Hammurabi back would feel like a triumphant return.
3.China (Yongle Emperor) Ming was one of the stronger dynasties.
4.Egypt (Thutmose) Has multiple millennia worth of potential so I'm flexible.
5.England (Henry VIII) Personally I loathe him, but think he would be fun.
6.Greece (Alchibiades) Subs in Alexander's role as the punch-ably smug Hellenic face.
7. Rome (Lucius Junius Brutus) Representing the values of the Republic once is not too much to ask.
8. Zulu (Shaka) While there are other rulers, Shaka is one of the only mainstays I am fine with.
Reworked
1. Austria (Maria Theresa) A cultural Germanic civ would be a lovely change of pace, and Maria works well enough with that I will reuse her.
2. Al-Andalus (Almazor) I am getting burnt out on the Castille focus of Spain in civ.
3. Axum (Ezana) Ethiopia with a more ancient focus.
4. Hittites (Puduhepa) A one off civ that would basically be new.
5. Maya (Siyaj K'ak/Fire is Born) Gives the Aztecs a break from being the war focused Mesoamerican civ.
6. Rus (Olga of Kiev) They are close enough to Russia I could see them folded but distinct enough I could see them separate, Either way, the contrast of saintliness and ruthlessness with Olga is too good to pass up.
7. Sassanids (Khosrow I) Please give the Achaemenids a break.
8. Songhai (Sunni Ali) The Animist-Islamic fusion is an important Sahel characteristic and is pretty conducive to a unique ability.
New
1. Argentina (Eva Peron) So the people that are not fond of women leaders and post-colonial civs can take the hard to swallow pill in one dose.
2. Burma/Myannmar (Bayinnaung) After NFP it will be the last major SE Asian entity that has yet to appear.
3. Cherokee (Sequoyah) I understand that some people would like a leader that was a ruler, but a force of cultural unification can be just as impactful.
4. The Gauls (Vercingetorix) A popular Celt substitute and Vercingetorix is an important icon to the French people.
5. Italy (Giuseppe Garibaldi) The civ can have Renaissance themed abilities, but the leader should be from when the peninsula was unified.
6. Judea (Hezekiah) It is one of the less controversial ways to have Hebrews represented as it is not a unified Israel and lacks a sacred figure as a leader.
7. Timurids (Timur) What's Sid Meier's Civilization without a central Asian warmongering powerhouse or cult of personality disguised as a nation?
8. Tonga (Tu'i ta tui) I am less informed about Oceania than I would like to be but I feel confident saying the Tonga are a good pick.
Pre-Order Bonus: India (Gandhi) As much as people hate it, let's be real. The nuke meme will never die.
DLC-So there are a lot of desired civs missing from this approach so in all scenarios this would be the ultimate damage control of a DLC wave.
Arabia pack (Al-Mansur)
-"House of Wisdom" scenario focused on generating science and culture.
Legacy of Charlemagne Pack: France (Louis XIV) and Germany (Frederick the Great).
-Includes a "Three Domains" scenario that is a free for all between East, Middle, and West Francia.
Denmark Pack (Margaret I)
-Flexible scenario
Mongol (Manduhkhai) and Japan (Meiji) pack.
-No I have not played the game that made this conflict popular, but I say just give the invasion a scenario since both Hojo and Kublai are probably in civ 6. Mandukhai is a little shaky in terms of depictions, but if Six Sky worked then I have no qualms. However I will advocate more strongly for Meiji. Rapid industrialization has been played with in the civ abilities before, but never as the biggest focus.
Inca pack (Huayna Capaq)
-Flexible scenario
So out of 24 civs, 8 will be civs than have to be included, 8 will be civs that either are somewhat-regular or returning civs with distinct "flavors" or both, and 8 will considered new. And with a few exceptions I have tried to avoid leaders seen before. My big lesson from the exercise? It would make people mad until DLC corrects the issue.
Returning
1.America (John F. Kennedy) I could also go with Eisenhower, Jefferson or even a curveball non-president like Ben Franklin, but a space race focused America seems worth a shot.
2.Babylon (Hammurabi) Sumer is not the same; that opinion is a hill I will die on. And if Babylon does lose out on a perfect attendance streak due to VI, then bringing Hammurabi back would feel like a triumphant return.
3.China (Yongle Emperor) Ming was one of the stronger dynasties.
4.Egypt (Thutmose) Has multiple millennia worth of potential so I'm flexible.
5.England (Henry VIII) Personally I loathe him, but think he would be fun.
6.Greece (Alchibiades) Subs in Alexander's role as the punch-ably smug Hellenic face.
7. Rome (Lucius Junius Brutus) Representing the values of the Republic once is not too much to ask.
8. Zulu (Shaka) While there are other rulers, Shaka is one of the only mainstays I am fine with.
Reworked
1. Austria (Maria Theresa) A cultural Germanic civ would be a lovely change of pace, and Maria works well enough with that I will reuse her.
2. Al-Andalus (Almazor) I am getting burnt out on the Castille focus of Spain in civ.
3. Axum (Ezana) Ethiopia with a more ancient focus.
4. Hittites (Puduhepa) A one off civ that would basically be new.
5. Maya (Siyaj K'ak/Fire is Born) Gives the Aztecs a break from being the war focused Mesoamerican civ.
6. Rus (Olga of Kiev) They are close enough to Russia I could see them folded but distinct enough I could see them separate, Either way, the contrast of saintliness and ruthlessness with Olga is too good to pass up.
7. Sassanids (Khosrow I) Please give the Achaemenids a break.
8. Songhai (Sunni Ali) The Animist-Islamic fusion is an important Sahel characteristic and is pretty conducive to a unique ability.
New
1. Argentina (Eva Peron) So the people that are not fond of women leaders and post-colonial civs can take the hard to swallow pill in one dose.
2. Burma/Myannmar (Bayinnaung) After NFP it will be the last major SE Asian entity that has yet to appear.
3. Cherokee (Sequoyah) I understand that some people would like a leader that was a ruler, but a force of cultural unification can be just as impactful.
4. The Gauls (Vercingetorix) A popular Celt substitute and Vercingetorix is an important icon to the French people.
5. Italy (Giuseppe Garibaldi) The civ can have Renaissance themed abilities, but the leader should be from when the peninsula was unified.
6. Judea (Hezekiah) It is one of the less controversial ways to have Hebrews represented as it is not a unified Israel and lacks a sacred figure as a leader.
7. Timurids (Timur) What's Sid Meier's Civilization without a central Asian warmongering powerhouse or cult of personality disguised as a nation?
8. Tonga (Tu'i ta tui) I am less informed about Oceania than I would like to be but I feel confident saying the Tonga are a good pick.
Pre-Order Bonus: India (Gandhi) As much as people hate it, let's be real. The nuke meme will never die.
DLC-So there are a lot of desired civs missing from this approach so in all scenarios this would be the ultimate damage control of a DLC wave.
Arabia pack (Al-Mansur)
-"House of Wisdom" scenario focused on generating science and culture.
Legacy of Charlemagne Pack: France (Louis XIV) and Germany (Frederick the Great).
-Includes a "Three Domains" scenario that is a free for all between East, Middle, and West Francia.
Denmark Pack (Margaret I)
-Flexible scenario
Mongol (Manduhkhai) and Japan (Meiji) pack.
-No I have not played the game that made this conflict popular, but I say just give the invasion a scenario since both Hojo and Kublai are probably in civ 6. Mandukhai is a little shaky in terms of depictions, but if Six Sky worked then I have no qualms. However I will advocate more strongly for Meiji. Rapid industrialization has been played with in the civ abilities before, but never as the biggest focus.
Inca pack (Huayna Capaq)
-Flexible scenario
Thenewwwguy
Deity
Took me two seconds to look it up. Search Engines exist for these very simple questions: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siyaj_Kʼakʼ
Terminacarnival
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2019
- Messages
- 29
Smoking Frog makes me think of a Gulf coast barbecue above all else. That said the one thing about the Maya I always hate is just how fragmentary our knowledge of their leaders are to the point where the 2-3 paragraphs worth of info on Siyaj K'ak' is a noteworthy amount (or how Six Sky did not even have a wikipedia page until a few months before release).
Michaelf7777777
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 32
Here is a possible Civ VII Base Game line up with 10 civs that were in Civ VI, 10 civs that were in earlier Civ Games but not in Civ VI, and 10 civs that have never been in Civ before:
Returning Civs from Civ VI
America - Richard Nixon
China - Yongle
Egypt - Ahmose-Nefertari
England - Henry V
France - Philip IV
Maya - Lady K'abel
Mongols - Mandukhai
Ottomans - Hurrem Sultan
Persia - Atossa
Russia - Catherine the Great
Returning Civs from Earlier Civ Games
Assyria - Shammuramat
Babylon - Hammurabi
Byzantines - Pulcheria
Carthage - Hannibal
Denmark - Margaret I
Hittites - Suppiluliuma I
Holy Roman Empire - Otto I
Iroquois - Jigonhsasee
Portugal - John II
Sioux - Sitting Bull
New Civs
Al-Andalus - Abd al-Rahman III
Argentina - Eva Peron
Bohemia - Libuse
Chola's - Rajaraja I
Matamba - Nzinga
Mughals - Akbar
Normans - Robert Guiscard
Tuscany - Matilda
Vietnam - Trung Trac and Trung Nhi
Yemen - Arwa al-Sulayhi
Returning Civs from Civ VI
America - Richard Nixon
China - Yongle
Egypt - Ahmose-Nefertari
England - Henry V
France - Philip IV
Maya - Lady K'abel
Mongols - Mandukhai
Ottomans - Hurrem Sultan
Persia - Atossa
Russia - Catherine the Great
Returning Civs from Earlier Civ Games
Assyria - Shammuramat
Babylon - Hammurabi
Byzantines - Pulcheria
Carthage - Hannibal
Denmark - Margaret I
Hittites - Suppiluliuma I
Holy Roman Empire - Otto I
Iroquois - Jigonhsasee
Portugal - John II
Sioux - Sitting Bull
New Civs
Al-Andalus - Abd al-Rahman III
Argentina - Eva Peron
Bohemia - Libuse
Chola's - Rajaraja I
Matamba - Nzinga
Mughals - Akbar
Normans - Robert Guiscard
Tuscany - Matilda
Vietnam - Trung Trac and Trung Nhi
Yemen - Arwa al-Sulayhi
My ultimate 100 civs.
I'll update my list, this time separating it into two groups: Civilizations that I think should appear in all future editions of the game; and civilizations that I would like to have in the game, but eventually appearing or alternating with another civ.
This time, I'll also include traits that determine the focus that each civilization will follow. Civilizations have their traits defined according to their historical or current characteristics. Each Civ will have three traits out of ten available, they are:
The list doesn't include civs that may be prevented by political issues (such as Tibet, Armenia and Israel) and civs that we know little about them (such as Olmec).
Civilizations that should appear in all editions:
1. America (scientific, expansionist and diplomatic)
2. Arabia (scientific, religious and commercial)
3. Argentina (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
4. Ashanti (commercial, diplomatic and defensive)
5. Assyria (scientific, militaristic and commercial)
6. Australia (expansionist, commercial and agrarian)
7. Austria (cultural, militaristic and diplomatic)
8. Aztec (militaristic, builder and agrarian)
9. Babylon (scientific, agrarian and defensive)
10. Brazil (cultural, expansionist and agrarian)
11. Bulgaria (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
12. Burma (religious, builder and defensive)
13. Byzantine (religious, commercial and defensive)
14. Canada (cultural, expansionist and diplomatic)
15. Cherokee (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
16. China (cultural, scientific and builder)
17. Cree (expansionist, commercial and diplomatic)
18. England (expansionist, commercial and builder)
19. Egypt (cultural, religious and builder)
20. Ethiopia (religious, commercial and defensive)
21. Florence (cultural, commercial and builder)
22. France (cultural, militaristic and builder)
23. Gauls (religious, militaristic and expansionist)
24. Georgia (cultural, religious and defensive)
25. Germany (scientific, militaristic and builder)
26. Goths (cultural, militaristic and expansionist)
27. Gran Colombia (militaristic, agrarian and defensive)
28. Greece (cultural, scientific and diplomatic)
29. Hitites (scientific, militaristic and diplomatic)
30. Hungary (militaristic, agrarian and diplomatic)
31. Inca (militaristic, expansionist and agrarian)
32. India (religious, agrarian and defensive)
33. Indonesia (religious, commercial and agrarian)
34. Iroquois (commercial, agrarian and diplomatic)
35. Japan (cultural, militaristic and builder)
36. Khmer (religious, builder and agrarian)
37. Kongo (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
38. Korea (cultural, scientific and religious)
39. Macedon (scientific, militaristic and expansionist)
40. Madagascar (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
41. Mali (militaristic, commercial and builder)
42. Maori (cultural, religious and expansionist)
43. Mapuche (cultural, expansionist and defensive)
44. Maya (scientific, religious and builder)
45. Mongols (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
46. Muisca (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
47. Netherlands (scientific, commercial and agrarian)
48. Nubia (religious, builder and defensive)
49. Ottomans (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
50. Persia (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
51. Phoenicia (scientific, expansionist and commercial)
52. Poland (militaristic, commercial and diplomatic)
53. Portugal (expansionist, commercial and builder)
54. Rome (militaristic, expansionist and builder)
55. Russia (cultural, expansionist and defensive)
56. Siam (militaristic, commercial and diplomatic)
57. Sioux (religious, expansionist and defensive)
58. Spain (religious, militaristic and expansionist)
59. Sumer (scientific, builder and agrarian)
60. Sweden (cultural, scientific and diplomatic)
61. Taino (cultural, religious and defensive)
62. Tuʻi Tonga (cultural, expansionist and commercial)
63. Vietnam (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
64. Venice (cultural, commercial and diplomatic)
65. Zulus (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
Civilizations that may eventually appear or alternate with another Civ:
Alternating space of Viking nation:
66. Denmark (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
67. Norway (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of Maghreb:
68. Almohad Caliphate (cultural, religious and militaristic)
69. Berbers (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
70. Morocco (militaristic, commercial and defensive)
Alternating space of Ancient Iranian civ:
71. Parthian (cultural, militaristic and expansionist)
72. Scythia (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of ancient Mesopotamia:
73. Akkadian (scientific, militaristic and agrarian)
74. Elam (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of East African coast:
75. Oman (expansionist, commercial and defensive)
76. Swahili (cultural, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of Mesoamerica:
77. Tarascan (scientific, builder and defensive)
78. Zapotec (scientific, builder and agrarian)
Alternating space of Sub-Saharan Africa:
79. Benin (cultural, religious and defensive)
80. Dahomey (cultural, religious and militaristic)
Alternating space of Western Europe:
81. Switzerland (scientific, commercial and diplomatic)
82. Genoa (expansionist, commercial and diplomatic)
Alternating space of Eastern European:
83. Bohemia (cultural, religious and diplomatic)
84. Kievan Rus' (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
85. Romania (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
Alternating space of North America:
86. Comanche (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
87. Navajo (cultural, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of South America:
88. Guarani (religious, agrarian and defensive)
89. Tupi (expansionist, diplomatic and defensive)
Alternating space of Oceania:
90. Hawaii (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
91. Rapa Nui (cultural, religious and builder)
Alternating space of Celtic nation:
92. Ireland (scientific, religious and builder)
93. Scotland (scientific, builder and defensive)
Other civs that may eventually appear:
94. Khazaria (expansionist, commercial and diplomatic)
95. Mexico (cultural, commercial and builder)
96. Nabataean (expansionist, commercial and builder)
97. Nepal (cultural, religious and agrarian)
98. Philippines (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
99. South Africa (cultural, agrarian and diplomatic)
100. Timurids (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
I'll update my list, this time separating it into two groups: Civilizations that I think should appear in all future editions of the game; and civilizations that I would like to have in the game, but eventually appearing or alternating with another civ.
This time, I'll also include traits that determine the focus that each civilization will follow. Civilizations have their traits defined according to their historical or current characteristics. Each Civ will have three traits out of ten available, they are:
Spoiler :
The list doesn't include civs that may be prevented by political issues (such as Tibet, Armenia and Israel) and civs that we know little about them (such as Olmec).
Civilizations that should appear in all editions:
1. America (scientific, expansionist and diplomatic)
2. Arabia (scientific, religious and commercial)
3. Argentina (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
4. Ashanti (commercial, diplomatic and defensive)
5. Assyria (scientific, militaristic and commercial)
6. Australia (expansionist, commercial and agrarian)
7. Austria (cultural, militaristic and diplomatic)
8. Aztec (militaristic, builder and agrarian)
9. Babylon (scientific, agrarian and defensive)
10. Brazil (cultural, expansionist and agrarian)
11. Bulgaria (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
12. Burma (religious, builder and defensive)
13. Byzantine (religious, commercial and defensive)
14. Canada (cultural, expansionist and diplomatic)
15. Cherokee (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
16. China (cultural, scientific and builder)
17. Cree (expansionist, commercial and diplomatic)
18. England (expansionist, commercial and builder)
19. Egypt (cultural, religious and builder)
20. Ethiopia (religious, commercial and defensive)
21. Florence (cultural, commercial and builder)
22. France (cultural, militaristic and builder)
23. Gauls (religious, militaristic and expansionist)
24. Georgia (cultural, religious and defensive)
25. Germany (scientific, militaristic and builder)
26. Goths (cultural, militaristic and expansionist)
27. Gran Colombia (militaristic, agrarian and defensive)
28. Greece (cultural, scientific and diplomatic)
29. Hitites (scientific, militaristic and diplomatic)
30. Hungary (militaristic, agrarian and diplomatic)
31. Inca (militaristic, expansionist and agrarian)
32. India (religious, agrarian and defensive)
33. Indonesia (religious, commercial and agrarian)
34. Iroquois (commercial, agrarian and diplomatic)
35. Japan (cultural, militaristic and builder)
36. Khmer (religious, builder and agrarian)
37. Kongo (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
38. Korea (cultural, scientific and religious)
39. Macedon (scientific, militaristic and expansionist)
40. Madagascar (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
41. Mali (militaristic, commercial and builder)
42. Maori (cultural, religious and expansionist)
43. Mapuche (cultural, expansionist and defensive)
44. Maya (scientific, religious and builder)
45. Mongols (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
46. Muisca (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
47. Netherlands (scientific, commercial and agrarian)
48. Nubia (religious, builder and defensive)
49. Ottomans (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
50. Persia (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
51. Phoenicia (scientific, expansionist and commercial)
52. Poland (militaristic, commercial and diplomatic)
53. Portugal (expansionist, commercial and builder)
54. Rome (militaristic, expansionist and builder)
55. Russia (cultural, expansionist and defensive)
56. Siam (militaristic, commercial and diplomatic)
57. Sioux (religious, expansionist and defensive)
58. Spain (religious, militaristic and expansionist)
59. Sumer (scientific, builder and agrarian)
60. Sweden (cultural, scientific and diplomatic)
61. Taino (cultural, religious and defensive)
62. Tuʻi Tonga (cultural, expansionist and commercial)
63. Vietnam (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
64. Venice (cultural, commercial and diplomatic)
65. Zulus (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
Civilizations that may eventually appear or alternate with another Civ:
Alternating space of Viking nation:
66. Denmark (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
67. Norway (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of Maghreb:
68. Almohad Caliphate (cultural, religious and militaristic)
69. Berbers (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
70. Morocco (militaristic, commercial and defensive)
Alternating space of Ancient Iranian civ:
71. Parthian (cultural, militaristic and expansionist)
72. Scythia (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of ancient Mesopotamia:
73. Akkadian (scientific, militaristic and agrarian)
74. Elam (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of East African coast:
75. Oman (expansionist, commercial and defensive)
76. Swahili (cultural, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of Mesoamerica:
77. Tarascan (scientific, builder and defensive)
78. Zapotec (scientific, builder and agrarian)
Alternating space of Sub-Saharan Africa:
79. Benin (cultural, religious and defensive)
80. Dahomey (cultural, religious and militaristic)
Alternating space of Western Europe:
81. Switzerland (scientific, commercial and diplomatic)
82. Genoa (expansionist, commercial and diplomatic)
Alternating space of Eastern European:
83. Bohemia (cultural, religious and diplomatic)
84. Kievan Rus' (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
85. Romania (cultural, militaristic and defensive)
Alternating space of North America:
86. Comanche (militaristic, expansionist and commercial)
87. Navajo (cultural, expansionist and commercial)
Alternating space of South America:
88. Guarani (religious, agrarian and defensive)
89. Tupi (expansionist, diplomatic and defensive)
Alternating space of Oceania:
90. Hawaii (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
91. Rapa Nui (cultural, religious and builder)
Alternating space of Celtic nation:
92. Ireland (scientific, religious and builder)
93. Scotland (scientific, builder and defensive)
Other civs that may eventually appear:
94. Khazaria (expansionist, commercial and diplomatic)
95. Mexico (cultural, commercial and builder)
96. Nabataean (expansionist, commercial and builder)
97. Nepal (cultural, religious and agrarian)
98. Philippines (cultural, commercial and agrarian)
99. South Africa (cultural, agrarian and diplomatic)
100. Timurids (cultural, militaristic and commercial)
Last edited:
Thenewwwguy
Deity
please please please no
only gripe is that india is not split up and timurids aren’t commercial
Xandinho,
The only changes I would make would be for North America wild card as the Navajo and Apache look the same as far as their traits. I would add:
Comanche (Militaristic, Expansionist, Commercial)
Powhatan (Diplomatic, Expansionist, Militaristic)
Salish (Commercial, Agrarian, Cultural)
Haida (Militaristic, Cultural, Agrarian)
The only changes I would make would be for North America wild card as the Navajo and Apache look the same as far as their traits. I would add:
Comanche (Militaristic, Expansionist, Commercial)
Powhatan (Diplomatic, Expansionist, Militaristic)
Salish (Commercial, Agrarian, Cultural)
Haida (Militaristic, Cultural, Agrarian)
Thenewwwguy
Deity
I’ll pass on the Comanche and Powhatan, but you should specify which Salish—coast or inland.
I’d also give the Haida commercial over agrarian.
Coast Salish had the larger trading networks and area but you can fold in the Inland into them if you need more meat for the civ.
Thenewwwguy
Deity
the reason why i say it should likely be just coast salish is bcs the inland salish ethnically and culturally were very much different even if they shared a language group. The coast salish have a great leader (Chief Seattle) as well as name recognition throughout the pacific northwest due to them arguably being the most nameworthy PNW tribe bcs of all the geographical features named after them. The Haida and Tlingit undoubtedly were more historical influential but have generally more difficult leader options to implement, so the Salish probably have a step up in that regard
They combined the Shoshone and Comanche in CiV5 and the two only shared a language. The Shoshone were relatively peaceful while the Comanche were the terror of the plains from Kansas to Northern Mexico.
Thenewwwguy
Deity
true, and that’s a suspect decision, but sharing a language and sharing a language group are also on different degrees of difference
I thought about breaking India, but that would mean less civs from other regions
. Also, I'd be fine with an Indian civ having several leaders to represent its various historical periods and empires.I'll change the expansionist trait of the Timurids to commercial.
Thanks for the suggestions. To be honest, I don't know much about North American native tribes, I put on my list what I thought was the biggest and most important ones.
I'll put Comanche in the place of Apache.
Haida would definitely be nice, they were compared to Vikings. I thought about putting them on my list, but I think I saw somewhere that they have a problem with media representation and it could be a deterrent to representing them in electronic games.
PhoenicianGold
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2018
- Messages
- 1,828
Things I would note:
* Taino and Khazaria don't have well-attested languages so they simply can't happen in a series with voiced leaders.
* Rapa Nui was a failed culture shouldn't be a civ. I'd argue it barely even succeeds as a city-state and currently robbed us of far more influential empires/kingdoms that could be represented by Mu'a and Honolulu.
* While I would be okay with Venice returning to represent Italy generally, I don't think Florence remotely qualifies as an empire. If we have to go that route, I would rather we skip both and have a full Italian state with a strong Tuscan/Florentine center rather than try to stretch out individual Italian city-states into civs. The same applies to Genoa.
* I still don't think Ireland really works as an empire the same way Scotland does, even if it would have been flavorfully far more fun to play. Same kind of stretching applies to Nepal and the Philippines.
Many others I think double up on regions when they don't need to:
* The Muisca are quite completely swallowed up by Gran Colombia and would likely substitute in for each other rather than co-occupy the same roster. A very similar thing with Argentina and the Mapuche.
* Parthia is effectively duplicating Persia.
* It's already difficult to justify Babylon and Sumeria, let alone Akkadia on top of that. And I don't see Elam edging its way into a civ anytime soon.
* Tui Tonga and the Maori achieve roughly the same design goals and again would likely swap; if anything I would expect just Tui Tonga representing central Polynesia, or the Maori paired with Hawaii on the other side of the Polynesian triangle.
* Mexico, Tarasca, and Zapotec all still feel solidly subordinated to the Aztecs and Maya. Same with Bohemia, Romania, and Austria being subordinated to Germany, Hungary, and Bulgaria.
* I wouldn't expect the Cree to be included in the same game as the Sioux or the Iroquois. Or that the Iroquois would be included with Canada.
* Nabataens kind of double up on Arabia and the Hittites share a lot of core territory as any civ occupying Anatolia like the Ottomans, but these are not as weird.
As it stands, you have 65 civs, plus 13 swappable slots, plus an additional 7 maybes. If I ignore the maybes, that indicates a pretty ambitious hope for 78 civs, 28 more than we will have at the end of NFP, i.e. at least 50 percent more than VI if we end with NFP.
If, however, we consolidated things a bit based on what I observed, consolidate Venice/Florence/Genoa, Muisca/GC, Austria/Hungary, Argentina/Mapuche, Tui Tonga/Maori/Hawaii/Rapa Nui (pick 1), Tarasca/Aztec/Zapotec, Cree/Canada/Iroquois/Sioux (pick 2), Babylon/Sumeria; cut out the Taino, Switzerland, Kievan Rus'/Romania/Bohemia, Elam/Akkadia...
Then you reduce your overall roster by 14 and bring your proposed roster down to a pretty achievable...64.
In fact, cut a few more and you're in the realm of what we could achieve with merely a second season of DLC. You wouldn't have to put your hopes in a VII that might never grow to that size lol.
Things I would note:
* Taino and Khazaria don't have well-attested languages so they simply can't happen in a series with voiced leaders.
* Rapa Nui was a failed culture shouldn't be a civ. I'd argue it barely even succeeds as a city-state and currently robbed us of far more influential empires/kingdoms that could be represented by Mu'a and Honolulu.
* While I would be okay with Venice returning to represent Italy generally, I don't think Florence remotely qualifies as an empire. If we have to go that route, I would rather we skip both and have a full Italian state with a strong Tuscan/Florentine center rather than try to stretch out individual Italian city-states into civs. The same applies to Genoa.
* I still don't think Ireland really works as an empire the same way Scotland does, even if it would have been flavorfully far more fun to play. Same kind of stretching applies to Nepal and the Philippines.
Many others I think double up on regions when they don't need to:
* The Muisca are quite completely swallowed up by Gran Colombia and would likely substitute in for each other rather than co-occupy the same roster. A very similar thing with Argentina and the Mapuche.
* Parthia is effectively duplicating Persia.
* It's already difficult to justify Babylon and Sumeria, let alone Akkadia on top of that. And I don't see Elam edging its way into a civ anytime soon.
* Tui Tonga and the Maori achieve roughly the same design goals and again would likely swap; if anything I would expect just Tui Tonga representing central Polynesia, or the Maori paired with Hawaii on the other side of the Polynesian triangle.
* Mexico, Tarasca, and Zapotec all still feel solidly subordinated to the Aztecs and Maya. Same with Bohemia, Romania, and Austria being subordinated to Germany, Hungary, and Bulgaria.
* I wouldn't expect the Cree to be included in the same game as the Sioux or the Iroquois. Or that the Iroquois would be included with Canada.
* Nabataens kind of double up on Arabia and the Hittites share a lot of core territory as any civ occupying Anatolia like the Ottomans, but these are not as weird.
As it stands, you have 65 civs, plus 13 swappable slots, plus an additional 7 maybes. If I ignore the maybes, that indicates a pretty ambitious hope for 78 civs, 28 more than we will have at the end of NFP, i.e. at least 50 percent more than VI if we end with NFP.
If, however, we consolidated things a bit based on what I observed, consolidate Venice/Florence/Genoa, Muisca/GC, Austria/Hungary, Argentina/Mapuche, Tui Tonga/Maori/Hawaii/Rapa Nui (pick 1), Tarasca/Aztec/Zapotec, Cree/Canada/Iroquois/Sioux (pick 2), Babylon/Sumeria; cut out the Taino, Switzerland, Kievan Rus'/Romania/Bohemia, Elam/Akkadia...
Then you reduce your overall roster by 14 and bring your proposed roster down to a pretty achievable...64.
In fact, cut a few more and you're in the realm of what we could achieve with merely a second season of DLC. You wouldn't have to put your hopes in a VII that might never grow to that size lol.
Well, it's a list of 100 civs, so there will obviously be overlap
, note that I tried to represent as many regions and cultures as possible.Also, I think that any state can function as an empire if Firaxis wants it, they included Georgia which is a very small state, if they want to include Ireland, Nepal, Florence... I don't think there is anything to stop them.
I don't think Tarasca or Zapotec are subordinates to the Aztecs, the Aztecs may have been more important (importance often exaggerated by the media, I consider the Mayans far more important than the Aztecs), but they work perfectly as a wildcard space from Mesoamerica, the even for Bohemia/Romania in relation to Eastern Europe.
I don't think Iroquois and Canada are self-excluding, Cree is more similar and overlaps Canada, and even so Canada was included in the game, I don't see why Iroquois would be more overlapping Canada than Cree.
Nor do I see why GC and Muisca cannot be added in the same game (in a list of 65 civs), given that they are very different civilizations and that they only occupy a common geographical space. The same I say about Argentina and Mapuche, which doesn't even overlap so much geographically, most of the Mapuche people are in Chile. If the occupation of the same geographic space is an impediment to adding civs, then we shouldn't have nations native to North America because the USA already covers them geographically.
The poor attestation of the Taíno language can be an impediment to their inclusion, but if they really wanted to add Taino, they could use the Arawakan language anyway, since Taino is an Arawakan language.
Obviously civ will never have so many civs in the same edition of the game, it's just a utopic list of civilizations that I would like to see in a perfect world
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XX36789
Chieftain
- Joined
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- Messages
- 74
revised version of my earlier list:
usa: jfk and abe lincoln
arabia: harun al-rashid and saladin
persia: xerxes i and shapur ii
inca: huyana capac and pachacuti
ottomans: mehmed ii and suleiman
india: indira gandhi and chandragupta
china: wu zetian and cao cao
japan: nobunaga and meiji
mongolia: genghis khan and kublai khan
egypt: tutankhamun and hapshetsut
carthage: dido and hannibal
kongo: ana nzinga and mvemba nzinga
greece: leonidas and odysseus
rome: nero and constantine
england: winston churchill and queen elizabeth i
france: king louis xiv and joan of arc
germany: frederick ii and charlemagne
spain: isabella and el cid
russia: catherine and vladmir lenin
lakota: sitting bull and crazy horse
akkad: sargon and enhedduana
philippines: lapu lapu and corazon aquino
benin: euware i and idia
mexico: benito juarez and guadalupe victoria
ireland: grace omalley and brian boru
usa: jfk and abe lincoln
arabia: harun al-rashid and saladin
persia: xerxes i and shapur ii
inca: huyana capac and pachacuti
ottomans: mehmed ii and suleiman
india: indira gandhi and chandragupta
china: wu zetian and cao cao
japan: nobunaga and meiji
mongolia: genghis khan and kublai khan
egypt: tutankhamun and hapshetsut
carthage: dido and hannibal
kongo: ana nzinga and mvemba nzinga
greece: leonidas and odysseus
rome: nero and constantine
england: winston churchill and queen elizabeth i
france: king louis xiv and joan of arc
germany: frederick ii and charlemagne
spain: isabella and el cid
russia: catherine and vladmir lenin
lakota: sitting bull and crazy horse
akkad: sargon and enhedduana
philippines: lapu lapu and corazon aquino
benin: euware i and idia
mexico: benito juarez and guadalupe victoria
ireland: grace omalley and brian boru
Last edited:
PhoenicianGold
Emperor
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- Jan 30, 2018
- Messages
- 1,828
Modern Georgia is a small state, but medieval Georgia controlled the entire caucasus for centuries. The difference is that Ireland and Nepal didn't really have any history of controlling or influencing regions outside of their own territory, and for the most part neither did Florence other than the short-lived Italic League. Florence could possibly stretch, but at that point I don't see why the devs wouldn't just slide down the slippery slope from Florence to Tuscany to Italy.
I would imagine seeing a Caribbean civ or even a stab at the Olmec before we got the Tarascans or Zapotecs.
Sure, perhaps a Canada/Sioux/Iroquois split might work. Still cramming all four up in there is asking a lot, and I feel like the Cree should be on some sort of rotation with the Iroquois and Sioux.
Colombia is a heterogenous culture that still traces a lot of heritage to the Chibcha and Arawakan peoples native to the region, and compared to other grand tour civs like India, Ethiopia, or Russia, the Muisca could have been incorporated in a broader Colombian design and it would have worked. That's generally my rule of thumb for whether civs could coincide together in a game or if they would likely swap ala Khmer/Siam or Mali/Songhai. Arguing for both the Muisca and GC is roughly equivalent to arguing for Aztec and Mexico, and throw Argentina into the mix and you start replicating a lot of very similar Spanish colonial design. I could see, for variety's sake, Mexico and the Muisca, or GC and the Aztec, but not any three or four of those.
Similarly, I would expect the Mapuche and Argentina to swap because they're both Pampas civs, and Argentina even further would struggle to distinguish itself as a vaquero ranching civ from Colombia's llanero plantation civ. Spanish colonial civs, like English colonial civs, simply don't have a lot of history to draw upon outside of hacienda culture, and unlike Canada/America/Australia don't have vastly different landscapes and economies to better differentiate themselves at first glance (and even then Canada and Australia pretty much scraped together what little they had going for them...Australia could very easily be "Western America").
Obviously civ will never have so many civs in the same edition of the game, it's just a utopic list of civilizations that I would like to see in a perfect world
For the most part, I don't think your choices are bad, although as a general observation if we were to insist on granularity that included three Polynesian civs, three Mesoamerican civs, two Italian civs, three+ Mesopotamian civs, etc. etc., then I would probably advocate for more granular representation of civs that underwent milennia of paradigm shifts like Arabia, India, China, Russia, Persia, France/Germany, Egypt. I.e. Which some of them somewhat are (Egypt/Nubia, Persia/Macedon), but for a roster going that wide I would expect a lot more subdivisions. Umayyad, Ayyubid, Mamluk/Abbasid; Mughals, Maurya, Chola; Qin, Tang, Yuan, Qing; Kievan Rus', Novgorod/Muscovy, Russia; Achaemenid, Parthia, Sasanian; Gauls, Franks, France, Teutons, Germany; Old Kingdom, Nubia, New Kingdom, Ptolemaic.
Basically, I'm of the opinion that a roster should give every region the same amount of design space. Which...we are already a bit too late for that given that we have Scotland, Macedon, Canada/Cree.
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