Civ7 now includes Denuvo

[VGT]

There is no ”installed denuvo” with windows version either.

To follow on that specifically, but also in general. As I understand, anti-tamper variant is not additional software installed on client's PC, it's additional step during preparing of game release, a compilation step that is making executable hard to reverse engineer. In that case I don't understand, why games including it are forced (voluntary?) to show this information on steam store page at all if it's a build tool? As a game publisher on steam you don't have to (I assume, not released any game yet) explain, how executable was made. Or maybe it is something more than executable shuffler if you are obliged to expose this information as a game seller?

 

[Zoeff]

To follow on that specifically, but also in general. As I understand, anti-tamper variant is not additional software installed on client's PC, it's additional step during preparing of game release, a compilation step that is making executable hard to reverse engineer. In that case I don't understand, why games including it are forced (voluntary?) to show this information on steam store page at all if it's a build tool? As a game publisher on steam you don't have to (I assume, not released any game yet) explain, how executable was made. Or maybe it is something more than executable shuffler if you are obliged to expose this information as a game seller?

Some people I've spoken to want to avoid anything with Denuvo just because the company is very shady. Steam/Valve probably just wants to avoid refunds.

 

[Solver]

To follow on that specifically, but also in general. As I understand, anti-tamper variant is not additional software installed on client's PC, it's additional step during preparing of game release, a compilation step that is making executable hard to reverse engineer. In that case I don't understand, why games including it are forced (voluntary?) to show this information on steam store page at all if it's a build tool? As a game publisher on steam you don't have to (I assume, not released any game yet) explain, how executable was made. Or maybe it is something more than executable shuffler if you are obliged to expose this information as a game seller?

It's not a build tool, it's a piece of third-party software, a library, that game developers buy and integrate with. It's not just a code obfuscation method, it has its own code that it runs. That is nothing unusual in itself, any game will have a bunch of third party libraries integrated - for things like using Steam, audio codecs, and more.

It has to be disclosed on Steam because it's additional DRM. Valve has a very reasonable policy on this. If the game imposes additional restrictions that aren't implicit by using Steam, such as needing to accept additional EULAs, or having some kind of activation limit (which Denuvo adds) then Valve requires that to be disclosed.

 

[Kwami]

It has to be disclosed on Steam because it's additional DRM.

More specifically, it's a form of DRM that requires sending unknown information to third-party servers. Those servers might be offline or stop existing in the future, which will prevent you from playing the game. It also has installation limits.

 

[pheace]

More specifically, it's a form of DRM that requires sending unknown information to third-party servers. Those servers might be offline or stop existing in the future, which will prevent you from playing the game. It also has installation limits.

Firaxis can simply replace the EXE with a Denuvo-less version at that point though, should the need ever arise. Unless we're talking a future where both Firaxis and Denuvo are gone. Probably more likely Denuvo will simply get removed within a few years before it ever becomes an issue, like most games these days.

 

[Verrucosus]

Did Firaxis ever react when a Windows Update stopped the original Civilization III from working because of Securom?

(I was lucky enough to have the unaffected Chronicles version at that point, but I remember some level of panic on the forums when the original version suddenly stopped working.)

 

[Kwami]

Firaxis can simply replace the EXE with a Denuvo-less version at that point though, should the need ever arise. Unless we're talking a future where both Firaxis and Denuvo are gone. Probably more likely Denuvo will simply get removed within a few years before it ever becomes an issue, like most games these days.

They can, but they probably won't. They still haven't removed Denuvo from Midnight Suns and that game has been out for more than two years already.

 

[ColPaladin]

The steam Denuvo thread has 284 comments (as per right now). I would guess only half of those are actually people saying they'd boycott it. Even if every single post was a separate person saying they won't buy it, that's a completely irrelevant almost lost in accounting rounding amount.

The region pricing thread has twice as many comments BTW.

Even this thread has twice as many comments as the steam Denuvo thread.

First, I purchased Civ7 on Steam, but when I posted a negative post on Steam forums about Denuvo, I was banned, permanently (???). In the forums I was in, I see messages I was reading about Denuvo and other negative opinions on the game were deleted left and right. Almost makes me want to refund if they have that "Putin'ish" of a censorship of a forum.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Steam Forum is bad, avoid it at all cost. No way to have a civil conversation there

 

[StargazingDog]

First, I purchased Civ7 on Steam, but when I posted a negative post on Steam forums about Denuvo, I was banned, permanently (???). In the forums I was in, I see messages I was reading about Denuvo and other negative opinions on the game were deleted left and right. Almost makes me want to refund if they have that "Putin'ish" of a censorship of a forum.

There is a pinned Denuvo topic there, where people are freely discussing it.

Denuvo discussion :: Sid Meier's Civilization VII General

To make it easier to post your opinion and not have the entire forum cluttered with the same discussion, we have created this central thread. All others will be locked.

steamcommunity.com

Obviously, any posts outside this particular topic will be deleted. The entire point of he pinned topic is to avoid people spamming the forum with separate posts.

 

[StargazingDog]

Steam Forum is bad, avoid it at all cost. No way to have a civil conversation there

I'd love it if they limited discussion forum to owners of the game, or at least had an owner's area.

 

[Dale]

There is a pinned Denuvo topic there, where people are freely discussing it.

Denuvo discussion :: Sid Meier's Civilization VII General

To make it easier to post your opinion and not have the entire forum cluttered with the same discussion, we have created this central thread. All others will be locked.

steamcommunity.com

Obviously, any posts outside this particular topic will be deleted. The entire point of he pinned topic is to avoid people spamming the forum with separate posts.

The point of pinning a thread and limiting a topic discussion to it, is to hide the discussion. It minimises the size of the issue to a minor dot point, which from a selling POV, is a good thing. For customers to get a true feel of the magnitude of an issue, pinned threads are really bad.
Publisher - "Let's hide the fact this is an issue by rolling all those 100 threads into one."
Cash Cow - "Oh look, 24 positive titled threads to one negative titled thread, take my money!"

 

[Heathcliff]

Are you safe if you install Civ 7 on your gaming computer and not on your work computer?

 

[Albertan Civfanatic]

Will Civ 7 be limited to just a few downloads per Steam account onto different computers?

 

[wesplaysciv]

No, it says the restriction is 5 activations per 24 hours …

 

[Albertan Civfanatic]

No, it says the restriction is 5 activations per 24 hours …

So if I download the game from my Steam account onto 2 separate computers I won't have any problems?

 

[wesplaysciv]

I can’t imagine it would. Of course Steam will limit you to one device playing at a time.

 

[Albertan Civfanatic]

But apparently Denuvo slows the game down big time through excessive CPU usage

 

[CaesarCS]

No, it won't matter. You have the game on more than one machine. I'm not sure if there is a limit. You just can't be playing them at the same time.

 

[Lord Shadow]

But apparently Denuvo slows the game down big time through excessive CPU usage

Has this been verified, though?