Civiliopedia gone horribly wrong..

Rohili

King
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
727
You don’t need the civilopedia to understand the bonus for gunship vs. tank. The icon for the bonus is very self explanatory – a yellow triangle. You know, the same icon for almost every other promotion in the game. Duh? How hard is it to figure out? ;)
Yeah, it's like they ran out of budget to design more icons so they just kept using the yellow and red triangles. :lol:

Seriously, the Civilopedia is the strongest evidence that Civ V was rushed out. It is clear that many of the game details were not yet firmed up when the Civilopedia was written, which is why the writing staff had to make do with putting down vague and unhelpful information.
 

MoonFlare

Prince
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Luna
Even the Civilopedia is streamlined.Good job,Firaxis.
 

AlpsStranger

Jump jump on the tiger!
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Even the Civilopedia is streamlined.Good job,Firaxis.

Sorry, no. The Civlopedia is not 'streamlined', it's empty. Streamlining is actually a good thing and legitimate streamlining is part of what made Civ4 so good.

If 'streamlining' becomes a dirty word we are lost.
 

Morningcalm

Keeper of Records
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May 7, 2007
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Abroad
Yet another reason to play Civ 4 instead of Civ 5.

I somehow doubt they'll ever fix the Civilopedia in Civ 5. For one thing, it would involve adding on new Main menu options (Where is the option to see Civilopedia from main menu in 5? Answer: NOWHERE). They've also been loathe to add a scenario screen for the Genghis Khan scenario, whereas virtually all, if not all, Civ 3 or 4 scenarios had unique music + background for a scenario title screen).

The whole game of Civ 5 smells of a rushed production and/or laziness--relying on graphics rather than gameplay to sell copies. Ugh.
 

JudgeDeath

Warlord
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
191
Hardly ever look at the 'pedia. But this one is bad. Skimped on the writing, flawed design.
 

PieceOfMind

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Sorry, no. The Civlopedia is not 'streamlined', it's empty. Streamlining is actually a good thing and legitimate streamlining is part of what made Civ4 so good.

If 'streamlining' becomes a dirty word we are lost.

Yes, it would be like removing mouse support for windows and saying it was streamlining. Streamlining would usually refer to removing unnecessary (or also in the case of video games 'unfun') features. Removing features that actually have functionality (like distinguishable promotion icons or hyperlinks in text) are not examples of streamlining.
 

Lone Wolf

Deity
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
9,908
Well, I guess a specific "+25% vs. Tanks" is a description that is overcomplicated and unfriendly. WTF with all these difficult numbers and that mystifying "%" symbol :confused:? Compare it to a user-friendly description like "Bonus vs. Tanks" - easy and non-confusing :goodjob:
 

Mutineer

Deity
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
Messages
3,715
That remind me about tags in Eve online (I love this game BTW, but do not play it any more, take too mach time).

They were illegal wares, so police would stop you and call you criminal, but there was no penalties.
all other illegal goods carry penalty , like confiscation, fine 500% of good cost , lost of standing with empire. Tags did not had confiscation, fine or lost standing. So police was like hey you carry illegal good, bad boy, carry on.. :)
 

DaveGold

Emperor
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
1,058
Hey guys, i don't see your problems, at least using the civilopedia does not lead to a game crash like for numerous other users here

But does anyone use it?
 

zorven

12,000 Suns
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
1,964
But does anyone use it?

I doubt it. As described above, the civiliopedia is a worthless accumulation of generalities that is useless if you want to understand the mechanics of the game (if you can find the subject matter in the first place).
 

Cordycep

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
65
Location
Australia
This is all part of Firaxis's green philosophy. By not printing the manual, trees are saved, by making the civlopedia useless, you're wasting less time (thus consuming less electricity) reading it. It's all to improve the efficient use of current resources.
 

Zyxpsilon

Running Spider
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Oct 29, 2009
Messages
3,250
Location
On Earth
To be honest, i enjoyed it at first sight... but, when i clicked on the "Game-Concepts" orb - i went ballistic over the huge list of complex_self-referencing_link_driven_bible_sized sections which lead me nowhere near the exact answer to my silly questions. KISS is a myth when documentation design is handled the wrong way(s).
FIraXis it, somehow. Make it available from the startup menu or externally, at least.
 

AlpsStranger

Jump jump on the tiger!
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Messages
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Yes, it would be like removing mouse support for windows and saying it was streamlining. Streamlining would usually refer to removing unnecessary (or also in the case of video games 'unfun') features. Removing features that actually have functionality (like distinguishable promotion icons or hyperlinks in text) are not examples of streamlining.

Thank you PieceOfMind, you've clearly spelled out exactly what I mean. Real streamlining is part of what made Civ4 so great. (Health system instead of pollution, distance upkeep instead of corruption, etc)
 

Mad Hab

Warlord
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
297
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
It is very clear that the Civilopedia was a rush job(...)

I dare to say that the developers knew the game would be unbalanced by release time. They couldn't give specific information on the pedia so they could change it later, with more testing.

"Bonus vs. Tanks" is used because they weren't sure if it would be 100%, 50% or 75%. Maybe they will fill the pedia appropriately the day they fanally balance this game as it should be in the first place...

Cheers!

Mad Hab
 

MouseyPounds

Prince
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
417
Location
Maryland, USA
The civilopedia is generated on the fly through lua and the DLL; if it is designed properly the actual value of a bonus doesn't matter since it gets pulled from the database and displayed properly regardless. Having a generic phrase instead of reading the actual value from the DB is just sloppy.
 

lschnarch

Emperor
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
1,296
The civilopedia is generated on the fly through lua and the DLL; if it is designed properly the actual value of a bonus doesn't matter since it gets pulled from the database and displayed properly regardless. Having a generic phrase instead of reading the actual value from the DB is just sloppy.

The problem is, even that they did not manage to do right.

Civ4's 'pedia retrieved values from the .xml files.
Civ5's 'pedia even doesn't get the English Longbowman right.

In other words: even if they (Firaxis) has done things right in the past, for unknown reasons they (Firaxis) have decided to skip this feature and replace it with something less valuable.
 

PieceOfMind

Drill IV Defender
Retired Moderator
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The problem is, even that they did not manage to do right.
I believe that was his point (note his last sentence). His post was a reply to Mad Hab who appeared to believe the civilopedia would need updating when balance changes were made.
 

Camikaze

Administrator
Administrator
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Dec 27, 2008
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Sydney
It would seem not much effort was put into the civilopedia. A lack of useful information, no hyperlinking and no main menu access. It might seem fine if you're not actually using it (and "who needs it anyway?" is hardly a good solution), but if they are going to have it in the game at all, they may as well make it useful or at least usable. I'm not sure whether it's cause for optimism or not that it really shouldn't be all that difficult to fix.
 

spammikone

Warlord
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
139
Some problems people have... How is civilopedia accessible from the main menu solving anything? Are you going to read it then? It's still crap after that. Just uh, load or quick start game and then use civilopedia, what does it matter where you do it from? I'm 99% positive if this hadn't been implemented in Civ 4 no one here would've ever thought about it.
 
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