Civilization 7 Soundtrack/Music discussion

I do hear a tiny bit of Swan Lake in Russia’s theme but that could be a coincidence.
 
I still prefer the Russian themes in Civ5 and Civ6. I like those intimidating Russian vocals.....keep the legacy of the Volga Boatmen alive!
 
I do hear a tiny bit of Swan Lake in Russia’s theme but that could be a coincidence.
As Russian, I really want to hear Swan Lake everywhere!

(Clarification: it's a bit of a meme. During 1991 coup attempt, all TV channels in USSR were showing Swan Lake because they didn't know how to react. So, for Russians "want to see/hear Swan Lake" means wanting the current Russian regime to fall)
 
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Well, eyebrow-raising inspiration aside, I overall like the theme. I feel that the mixture of the cold, melancholic opening, the grand bombastic parts with bold brass and the soft woodwind part in the middle together create a theme with a distinctively Russian flair (I really like that they're managing to give the modern themes much greater variety than the industrial themes of VI had!). My only bigger criticism is that the pause between the first bombastic part and the flute feels a bit too long.

I also like that the theme sounds somewhat less dark and ominous than Civ V's peace theme and VI's industrial and atomic themes. Not that I hate melancholic music (Civ V's Mongolia and VI's Scythia are my favourites from the respective games), but the attempt to go in a different direction rather than repeat the same formula is what I appreciate here. The Saint Petersburg illustration is spot-on, the city's opulent tsarist architecture is precisely what I imagine when hearing the bombastic parts.
 
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Disclaimer: I searched a bit but could only find that the Hymn from Hunt for Red October is an original piece for the movie.

So the theme for Russia is a copy of a Soviet melody from an American movie by an American composer.

Man, the disrespect towards Russia these days...
 
I’m also hoping that Buganda’s theme is a banger as Sub-Saharan African civs are allergic to having bad themes in the series
 
Sub-Saharan African civs are allergic to having bad themes in the series
Civ6 Kongo is the only civ I permabanned because their music is insufferable (Brazil's is pretty close to permaban levels), and I know I'm in the minority but I loathed Civ6's Zulu theme. (I liked it at first, but it grows grating after you've heard it a few times.)
 
Kongo and Brazil's themes were what I'd describe as "cute." Very tightly orchestrated explorations of a repeated theme that make for a pleasant listen every once in a while.

The problem arises when you remember you're playing Civ, it's only turn 150, and you have at least another hour to put into this game. I hope you weren't ready for Banaha and Brejeiro to leave just yet :p

Civ VII seems to be taking a slightly more atmospheric approach to its compositions with less "intentional" melodies. It's less of music from a game and instead just game music. I hope that makes it feel less repetitive.
 
Civ6 Kongo is the only civ I permabanned because their music is insufferable (Brazil's is pretty close to permaban levels), and I know I'm in the minority but I loathed Civ6's Zulu theme. (I liked it at first, but it grows grating after you've heard it a few times.)
Kongo was the first civ I played in 6. I think I would hate their theme if not for the nostalgia. Brazil is on my ban list for their music too... Though for me the worst offenders are Khmer and Indonesia. Their themes in 7 are fortunately nowhere near as irritating...
 
Though for me the worst offenders are Khmer and Indonesia.
Neither of them were particular favorites, but I didn't hate them, either.
 
I’m also hoping that Buganda’s theme is a banger as Sub-Saharan African civs are allergic to having bad themes in the series
I think Buganda‘s theme might have been leaked already. It‘s very orchestral but features segments with typical Subsaharan African instruments (Kalimba, most prominently), while the melody and rhythm aren't Western. The rhythm is African (or African-inspired), while the melody could plausibly be from a lot of places. So, if it is any civ‘s theme, it is Buganda. Alternatively, it could be music that‘s played in the hall of fame, when you‘ve won, etc. It seems to pompous for being ambient music.

 
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Disclaimer: I searched a bit but could only find that the Hymn from Hunt for Red October is an original piece for the movie.
I don't mind it that much myself, audially at least because the melody is rather nice to the ear, but I'd worry about something else: I wonder if appropriation of a motif this extensive, one written by an author who died less than 70 years ago, may constitute plagiarism. The melodic line is almost identical for a significant amount of time, the rhythm and tempo is similar, and I've heard about successful lawsuits about things as nitpicky as chord progressions. I'd say that the musical idea has been "borrowed" and a lot of people have recognised it.

So, what I think happened is that the Civ composer has seen a 12 year old video the piece from Hunt for Red October falsely labeled as a performance from the Red Army Choir, I assumed that it was an older piece and therefore didn't tell anybody about the inspiration. It's common practice to base civ themes on older compositions after all. I don't believe that he realised that the theme came from a Hollywood movie, otherwise I'd expect him to pick something else because picking soundtrack from a relatively new film for Civ is a ridiculous concept. And if anybody from legal team knew about this, they'd rather not bother and suggest the composer to search for a different theme, right?

What I think may happen is actually rather little, and that is assuming two moderately unlikely things: that Basil Poledouris' rightholders come to know of this, and that I'm not blowing this out of proportion. The maximal consequences of this I expect is that the Russia theme will get a co-author credit, which I see as reasonable in this case. Therefore, the 'disrespect to Russia' will stand in-game and woefully we will all have to work out how to live on with this.

Unless it's meant as a homage and in that case I wouldn't know what to say about this?????????
 
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I don't mind it that much myself, audially at least because the melody is rather nice to the ear, but I'd worry about something else: I wonder if appropriation of a motif this extensive, one written by an author who died less than 70 years ago, may constitute plagiarism. The melodic line is almost identical for a significant amount of time, the rhythm and tempo is similar, and I've heard about successful lawsuits about things as nitpicky as chord progressions. I'd say that the musical idea has been "borrowed" and a lot of people have recognised it.

So, what I think happened is that the Civ composer has seen a 12 year old video the piece from Hunt for Red October falsely labeled as a performance from the Red Army Choir, I assumed that it was an older piece and therefore didn't tell anybody about the inspiration. It's common practice to base civ themes on older compositions after all. I don't believe that he realised that the theme came from a Hollywood movie, otherwise I'd expect him to pick something else because picking soundtrack from a relatively new film for Civ is a ridiculous concept. And if anybody from legal team knew about this, they'd rather not bother and suggest the composer to search for a different theme, right?

What I think may happen is actually rather little, and that is assuming two moderately unlikely things: that Basil Poledouris' rightholders come to know of this, and that I'm not blowing this out of proportion. The maximal consequences of this I expect is that the Russia theme will get a co-author credit, which I see as reasonable in this case. Therefore, the 'disrespect to Russia' will stand in-game and woefully we will all have to work out how to live on with this.

Unless it's meant as a homage and in that case I wouldn't know what to say about this?????????
Even with all that considered a Red Army song would still be a weird choice for the Russian civ as it’s largely based on the Russian Empire which the Bolsheviks not only strongly opposed but also later killed the Romanovs.

Russia has more than enough clsssical music from when they were an empire that could’ve worked as the theme. Russian music is more than just Soviet music!
 
I don't mind it that much myself, audially at least because the melody is rather nice to the ear, but I'd worry about something else: I wonder if appropriation of a motif this extensive, one written by an author who died less than 70 years ago, may constitute plagiarism. The melodic line is almost identical for a significant amount of time, the rhythm and tempo is similar, and I've heard about successful lawsuits about things as nitpicky as chord progressions. I'd say that the musical idea has been "borrowed" and a lot of people have recognised it.

So, what I think happened is that the Civ composer has seen a 12 year old video the piece from Hunt for Red October falsely labeled as a performance from the Red Army Choir, I assumed that it was an older piece and therefore didn't tell anybody about the inspiration. It's common practice to base civ themes on older compositions after all. I don't believe that he realised that the theme came from a Hollywood movie, otherwise I'd expect him to pick something else because picking soundtrack from a relatively new film for Civ is a ridiculous concept. And if anybody from legal team knew about this, they'd rather not bother and suggest the composer to search for a different theme, right?

What I think may happen is actually rather little, and that is assuming two moderately unlikely things: that Basil Poledouris' rightholders come to know of this, and that I'm not blowing this out of proportion. The maximal consequences of this I expect is that the Russia theme will get a co-author credit, which I see as reasonable in this case. Therefore, the 'disrespect to Russia' will stand in-game and woefully we will all have to work out how to live on with this.

Unless it's meant as a homage and in that case I wouldn't know what to say about this?????????
a) chord progressions themselves can't be copyrighted. In combination with, e.g., a non-generic bass line or top note movement that is perceived as melody, they can. However, it's very difficult to make a case for this.
b) Hollywood studios are very rigorous with use of their work, but so - I assume - is FXS and they checked that it is ok.
c) iirc some other videos showed a co-composer or similar, indicating that the rights to make an adaption were obtained. There is nothing of that sort here so far. It is possible that they got full permission without stating the original composer, nor paying any royalties. This exists surprisingly often in practice - but I wouldn't expect it from any commercial American composer tbh.
d) Homages in commercial use aren't covered in any way by exceptions. You would still need the permission to make an adaption of a work.

Even with all that considered a Red Army song would still be a weird choice for the Russian civ as it’s largely based on the Russian Empire which the Bolsheviks not only strongly opposed but also later killed the Romanovs.

Russia has more than enough clsssical music from when they were an empire that could’ve worked as the theme. Russian music is more than just Soviet music!
That's the surprising part, yes. A lot of civ VII's (and VI's) music sounds inspired by Tchaikovsky. So, it's somewhat surprising that Russia of a all cases doesn't have that spirit.
 
a) chord progressions themselves can't be copyrighted. In combination with, e.g., a non-generic bass line or top note movement that is perceived as melody, they can. However, it's very difficult to make a case for this.
You're right, I was going off of the case of "Creep" by Radiohead, in which the co-author credit was granted. I didn't remember that the melody was also the matter though.

I agree with both of you on using Hunt for Red October at all. It's a weird choice. But potential additional legal effort to acquire a movie soundtrack for a theme that's pretty much meant to be history adjacent only adds to the weirdness.
 
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