Civilization elimination thread

[truenarnian]

"The Iroquois I dislike because .... how hideous your roads look stopping and starting everywhere."

I'm cheating a little on the quote, but it's funny because as much as I LOVE the Iroquois (and I do, having played many games with them - best when on an island with the Americans and reduced them to a rump state), I agree with you about the roads: I really dislike that I have to build one-ff road hexes to chain together the swathes of forest. It looks weird.

 

[DGDobrev]

@Phil Bowles

I get your argument, and I understand it. I'd say to each his own. I know I can win a normal Deity game and I tried it successfully with many civs already. So now I am playing OCC for increased challenge and I will do it with every civ to determine which one does best and vote accordingly. If you can do it with one city, you can do it with many, unless your UA/UU/UB requires you to take a different path (say, India few cities or Egypt ICS). For me, this is the way to find out which civ does best. Besides, everyone should have fun with this game in his own way, and I am not at all trying to state that whatever I post is the eternal truth

 

[Elgalad]

America 1
Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 6
Egypt 8
England 18
Ethiopia 18
France 16
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 8
Japan 18
Korea 23
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 14
Roman Empire 22 (+1)
Russia 21
Siam 18 (-2)
Songhai 6
Sweden 13

Rome is perfect for the builder/hoarder side of me that likes to have everything.. and anything I can't make on my own, my Legions will just bring me anyway.

Siam doesn't suit me at all. I realize you don't HAVE to play one city games, but not doing so with Siam kinda defeats their purpose, doesn't it? And I don't have a lot of respect for them as AIs either. Ramalamadingdong (whatever) reminds me of that one kid in elementary school who always wore heavy sweaters even when it was warm, and whose Mom would put little notes in his lunch bags. I know this because I used to read them while eating the rest of the stuff in the sack.


** on a side note, is there going to be a resource elimination thread too?


-Elgalad

 

[Furycrab]

America 0 (-2)
Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 6
Egypt 8
England 18
Ethiopia 18
France 16
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 8
Japan 18
Korea 24 +1
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 14
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 18
Songhai 6
Sweden 13


America, because it was so tempting to be the killing blow, on a more serious note... They don't play really well into any victory condition. I actually use them when I'm just looking for a civ that will have little impact on my strategy to see how it pans out.

Korea +1, while the UU are a bit situational, the UA is soooooo good and can play into practically any victory condition.

Edit to include Elgalad post

 

[Haphaz]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 6
Egypt 8
England 18 + 1 = 19
Ethiopia 18
France 16
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 8
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 18 - 2 = 16
Persia 14
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 18
Songhai 6
Sweden 13

Easy ones are going now...

Minus for Ottomans - 2 UU that I don't find uses for and a dubiously useful UA for non-arc maps.

Plus for England - Yes, great on arc maps, but also good on others. The range 3 UU (upgradable to range 2 gatling guns) and extra spy are very nice.

 

[Mesix]

An early small boost in science (with a scientist) is very situational. If you decide to focus on other things apart from science then it's an early advantage. But if you decide to focus on science from the beginning the great scientist will help you only when you discover writing, then you can forget about you UA.

Not really true. A free GS (settled as an Academy) at Writing is like double in the early game, and continues to generate its benefit for he entire game. Getting more GS faster throughout the game is a snowball effect which helps out any strategy you might use. I can understand if you say Babylon is overpowered or Babylon is boring to play because they always have a tech lead. Saying that their UA is only good in certain situations make me ask the obvious question. What situation do you want to have less ?

 

[Awsome Sause]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 6
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 18
France 16
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 14
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 18
Songhai 4
Sweden 13

Iroquois: they get great production bonus from longhouse, save money on roads, and a sword men replacement that does not require iron. Also forests slow down enemy attackers so they get a kind of great wall effect in there territory.

Songhai: This Civ in my opinion is just not as good as the other ones left.

 

[Tabarnak]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 4
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 18
France 16
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 15
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 18
Songhai 4
Sweden 13

Persia : Golden ages!!! One of the best civs around.

Denmark : Maybe his UA shines better in mp but against a dumb AI it doesn't make much difference.

 

[aarman4]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 4
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 18
France 17
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 15
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 16
Songhai 4
Sweden 13




FRANCE: I've never had a poor game as france. I play on Emporor and sometimes Immortal, and I love to take choke or value territory with my second city, and France allows that to happen much smoother... Combined with Liberty I only need to focus on happiness and defense to truly expand.


SIAM: I took a long time deliberating between the Swedes, Songhai, Siam, and Japan, but the Siamese take the cake here. The UA is only consequential as you have to have a well built civilization before it takes effect, and by then the effect is minimized at higher difficulty levels. I win with them occasionally, but never with a smile on my face.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 4
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 17
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 16
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 16
Songhai 4
Sweden 13

Persia: Well they're just plain awesome aren't they
Ethiopia: A great UB for sure, but at the complete expense of both the UA and UU? It's good, but no UB is quite that good. Well, It's that or turtle up with no advantages for victory, just help in slightly stretching out your inevitable demise.....

 

[Peng Qi]

I am sorry I am keeping that incessant Deity and OCC talk going around, but this is how I judge a civ. If they can't beat the highest level, then it's missing something.

OCC is not "the highest level." It's a completely different game, with dramatically different priorities and goals. It may be harder than playing normally, but judging civs by their efficiency in OCC is ridiculous when the normal game isn't a OCC. That's like judging StarCraft units by their usefulness in 1v7s.

 

[Bakspatel]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 24
Denmark 4
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 17
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 21
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 16
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 16
Songhai 4
Sweden 11

The Netherlands aren't the best, but still they rock.. Their UA is great, Polders are totally awesome and I just love to terrorize the oceans and coastal cities with the Sea Beggars. They actually made me being more focused on naval combat than terrestrial combat. And at least William is carrying some pants, can't say the same about Montezuma and others

I like Sweden but not that much in the game. Giving away GP and I didn't find their units that tough. Such a shame.

 

[CivDecimation]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 25
Denmark 2
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 17
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 21
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 16
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 16
Songhai 4
Sweden 11

China's GG bonus is great plus their paper maker provides gold as well as science.

Denmark's UUs are on the same path but long swords are not around every long and pikes come earlier.

 

[meteo63]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 25
Denmark 2
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 17 - 2 = 15
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 21
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 16
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 16
Songhai 4
Sweden 12 + 1 =13

France: I have nothing wrong with France's ability from a gameplay or strategic standpoint but I find that the ability and the two unique units do not really fit from a flavor perspective. France's height in terms of power is the medieval, rennaissance, and the industrial eras; why should its ability be strongest in the ancient era? Furthermore, two unique units focuses France on conquest, which fits Napoleon's era certainly, but these UUs have nothing to do with France's culture, which I feel should be much more important. France should have a UA having to do with culture in the eras in which its culture flourished (rennaissance and industrial) in terms of art: maybe having to do with great artists? Free great artist at a certain tech or +50% artist production like Babylon's? And maybe a UB like a pastry bakery would be cool instead of two military units.

Sweden: Why is Sweden dropping so fast? I love that the ability encourages clever diplomacy with your friends and warmongering against the enemies of your friends. Go tall and produce a ton of great people with the UA bonus and then go to war against a common foe to create great generals or admirals to gift to City-States. It's a unique playstyle, so my vote goes to Sweden.

 

[GreekIrish]

I'm really surprised as to why the Iroquois is voted so low. I think they're a great civ, and things like "they don't interest me" and "their roads look weird" shouldn't be valid criticism as why you chose them to downvote. Being situational I could see, but even then, unless you're playing on a special map like Ice Age, they almost always start with a good bit forest.

I know, especially since Korea's count has been off since back at post 244.

That's probably my fault, I shouldn't have changed my vote.

 

[cman2010]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 25
Denmark 2
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 15
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 12
Netherlands 21
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 17
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 16
Songhai 2
Sweden 13

songhai I just dont really care to play as them or against them.

persia Im supprised to see persia go so low they are always a runaway in my games, and I love to play as them great UA

 

[Babri]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 25
Denmark 0
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 15
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 13
Netherlands 21
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 17
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 16
Songhai 2
Sweden 13

Mongolia has the best UU in the game. Also u only need few keshliks & a horseman to start conquering. Khans make sure that ur army don't need to stop for healing so u can continue your unstoppable invasion.

Denmark in its vanilla state doesn't interest me much. Berserks are quite meh. Ski infantry is fine. UA is also average. I prefer the VEM/GEM version of Denmark.

 

[PhilBowles]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 23
China 25
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 13
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 13
Netherlands 21
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 17
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 17
Songhai 2
Sweden 13

Strange that my favourite civs are mostly the ones dropping fast. I'd try to save Songhai, but given how much dislike there is for them here that would be a wasted vote - real shame since they're a very characterful addition to the game despite the mischaracterised Askia backdrop, and it's good to see a Malian civ represented as something other than an anonymous set of leader traits you'd struggle to remember belongs to that civ rather than another. Plus they do get something closely equivalent to the French UA (free culture per city) although it does take hammers. I do have to confess, though, that while I have a lot of success with Songhai, I deliberately play to maximise their gold gain - it's quite possibly true, as others have suggested, that going the same Honor/barbarian hunt/warmonger strategy with other civs would be almost as effective, and possibly moreso for civs with good UUs (although I'm a little leery of two-UU civs generally because a UU only provides its effect for a small part of the game, making UBs generally more valuable).

Upvote again for Siam. I'm not sure what the basis for the claim made in one post that the UA favours playing on one city is, since culture and faith bonuses work for all your cities when friendly (rather than necessarily allied), and maritime for all cities when allied, and plainly the more cities you have the greater your overall xpt bonus. As I noted before, getting actively rewarded for playing the civ well is both a much stronger bonus and more interesting to play than a passive effect like, say, the Greek or French UA. And the G&K resting influence is a massive buff for Siam - since the Siamese bonus triggers with friendship, and you can readily retain resting influence of 30 with any city-state you desire once you have the second Patronage policy, you can bring benefits in early and keep them flowing.

Downvote for France, mostly because I don't find them interesting (another passive bonus civ, and while the UUs are serviceable, they're rather characterless), and I agree with the poor fit between the UA/UUs and France as a real-world civilization.

 

[bbobb23]

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 24 (+1)
China 25
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 13
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 13
Netherlands 21
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 17
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 17
Songhai 2
Sweden 11 (-2)

Carthage: I have had by best games with them, Archipelago and an above average amount of seas resources and you're good to go

Sweden: The only civ that I have yet to finish a game as (although I'm in the midst of one), their UA and UUs are just too unappealing to me

 

[DGDobrev]

OCC is not "the highest level." It's a completely different game, with dramatically different priorities and goals. It may be harder than playing normally, but judging civs by their efficiency in OCC is ridiculous when the normal game isn't a OCC. That's like judging StarCraft units by their usefulness in 1v7s.

As I said I played normal games too. When you beat Deity in a standard game you seek for new challenges. As for the Starcraft reference... You may say that a pack of archers and a good location is comparative to the chokepoint supply depot/bunker/siege tank Terran tactic, but this is a completely different game.

And honestly... Every single player like different things. Some play low levels and have fun, others like challenges, a different player would go all out warmongering... It is a game Let's have some fun with it our own ways, shall we?

This is why I apologized for going about this OCC Deity stuff, as I could feel it was getting on the people's nerves. This is why I decided to explain my actions in order to get some understanding from the rest.

Arabia 28
Aztecs 20
Babylon 21
Byzantium 20
Carthage 24
China 25
Egypt 8
England 19
Ethiopia 16
France 13
Greece 21
Inca 25
Iroquois 9
Japan 18
Korea 24
Maya 27
Mongolia 13
Netherlands 22
Ottoman Empire 16
Persia 17
Roman Empire 22
Russia 21
Siam 17
Songhai 2
Sweden 9

and the Dutch have won my vote for the day. I had heaps of fun with the dutch over the last few days - I never ever thought they can ever win a science victory under T260, but I did it. That UA is freaking awesome both for OCC and normal play, and the Polders is one thing that lets you forget all your worries regardless where you spawn. I may have just found my new favorite

I can destroy the Songhai, but I also had success with them in my games. They can get a lot of gold even on Deity if you go hunt out barbs and play on the offensive. I think there is more to them than meets the eye.

Sweden goes down. The UA is weird - if you have useless GP's you can gift them and gain some alliances with City States. However, you can easily get couped on the next turn, and boom goes the alliance... I'd love to see Sweden play a huge map with max civs, but that happens so rarely, and lasts so freaking long