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Civilization elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bakspatel, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. ense7en

    ense7en n7

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 21
    Byzantium 20
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 19
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 22
    Inca 26 +1
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 22
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 17
    Songhai 1 -2
    Sweden 7

    Inca is very strong civ overall, and i love being able to do so well in normally tough terrain.
    Songhai is just meh...nothing really makes me ever want to play them as they need specific settings to shine (raging barbs)...
     
  2. shadowplay

    shadowplay (boss music)

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    5,510
    Location:
    Toronto
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 21
    Byzantium 20
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 19
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 22
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 17
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 7
     
  3. Leviat

    Leviat Addict

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    US
    Dude you always minus the Iroquois and have not once given a reason for any of your votes.
     
  4. Kurtbob

    Kurtbob Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    470
    Location:
    Arizona
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 21
    Byzantium 20
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 19
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 7
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 22
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 17
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 5

    Still propping up the Iroquois.

    I took from the Swedes this time. I'm just not a fan of the UA. I don't like giving other civs a bonus in order to receive my own bonus.
     
  5. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,171
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 21
    Byzantium 20
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 7
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 22
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 17
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 3

    - to Sweden. I appreciate their unique playstlye. Of the remaining Civs theirs is truly unique. At a later stage I can see toying around with them again. With that being said, they are one of the Civs that if I rolled them, I would restart. Add in that as an opponent they haven't done much (very recent exception where they are wonder spamming colossus) in my games and they get the down vote.

    Up vote to one I haven't played yet. Can't wait to get my hands on a 3 range unit early. I anticipate that at this stage in the game I'll focus purely on longbow production. SoL looks tremendous, and given my love for naval warfare in V its a great match. Getting an additional spy is another plus as I always want more spys. Two units I'd love to try, plus an additional spy. Can't pass that up.


    This is going to get interesting as soon as the next two cuts are made. Seen some great arguments for multiple sides. Those saying France is missing something have my ear, as well as those who are defending Iroquois.
     
  6. Dunduks

    Dunduks Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    45
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 21
    Byzantium 20
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8 (+1)
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 22
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 17
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 1 (-2)

    Iroquois - playing on prince/king they are most common runaway civ, also perfect synergy of UA, UU and UB.
    Sweden - it's more easy to be friends in G&K but anyway it's too much dependent of NPC action. Also I dislike civs with two UU.
     
  7. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    So Korea can get four cities up and build amphitheaters or markets in all four by the time they research writing? Maybe I should start playing Korea more often.
     
  8. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22 (+1)
    Byzantium 20
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 23
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25 (-2)
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 22
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 17
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 1

    The :c5science: bonus Babylon gets is adaptable to any strategy in the game. getting the bonus research early means that you can pull ahead of the pack and never look back. By the time other civs are just getting in stride (like Korea starting to run specialists or Arabia starting to get their UB), Babylon is already 3-4 techs ahead and continuing to pick up speed. Good for all victory conditions and play styles.

    Maya is weak because the extra great people are not free. At first glance, it looks cool to get great people to pop automatically from the long count, but you are forced to take great people you don't necessarily want and the cost of future great people increases with each "free" one generated by the long count. In the long run, it is more of a unique penalty.
     
  9. Bakspatel

    Bakspatel Prince

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    464
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    @shadowplay: No motivation no count. One post was skipped that downrated the Iroquois, so their current amount remains.

    Fixed scores at the moment:

    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 20
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 22
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 1
     
  10. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    Greece should be 23. It was voted up to 22 in post 417 and then to 23 in post 422.
     
  11. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Essen, Germany
    There were some gripes about the Babylon UU and UB and I would like to share my thoughts about it. I agree that they are only good for the classic era, but consider this - Babylon was founded around 3500 BC and was destroyed around 140 BC. Well, that does not give the developers much to go around does it? You can hardly expect a Mothership for a civ that was destroyed/assimilated by others before Christ was born... I think this fact should be taken into account.
     
  12. Bakspatel

    Bakspatel Prince

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I removed the point from the last post because he didn't give any motivation for his voting.
     
  13. Loucypher

    Loucypher King

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    797
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 18 (-2)
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 8
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 11
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23 (+1)
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 1

    +: Netherlands. The money you can swim in while playing as the Dutch allows for many different playstyles. They also have one of the strongest navies in the game once you get to the Sea Beggars (Trumped only by the British and Ottomans, early game sure Carthage and Byzantium are better but...) and the polder, on Desert-heavy maps, is just insane.

    -: Byzanthium. While they have one of the best leader screens, especially at higher difficulties its insanely hard to take proper use of that at first glance impressive UA. If they had a faith-producing UB or something early game (like Ethiopia's Stele), then sure, but as it is now they're just...meh. Their UU's aren't particulary great either. Sure Dromon is nice but it doesn't pack enough oomph for long enough, and Cataphract is just...meh.
     
  14. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    If you want more :c5gold:, it helps to get markets and banks up earlier. This is only possible if you research the necessary technology earlier.

    Are you using the GS at Writing to bulb a technology? This would not give you nearly the same benefit as planting the GS as an Academy outside your capital (or chosen science focused city...i.e. near a mountain and/or with a lot of :c5food: available). You get +8 :c5science: immediately which will compound every turn for the entire game. That bonus :c5science: will become up to +10 to +18 with future social policies and be modified by buildings such as the National College, Observatory, etc. The free GS is the gift that keeps on giving. Getting it as early as Writing means that you can effectively pull ahead in the tech race at a very early point in the game.

    The only thing to consider is when to stop planting Academies and when to start using the extra GS to bulb techs. This is generally sometime in the late Renaissance to early Industrial era. The timing depends on game conditions and strategy/goals of the game. At some point, you will receive more benefit from the instant bulb than you will from having an additional Academy over time. Sometimes, the instant benefit is better to have as well (i.e. to unlock a key wonder or a new military unit).
     
  15. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,289
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    UK
    Arabia 28
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 18
    Carthage 22
    China 24
    Egypt 6 (-2)
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 12 (+1)
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 1

    France are a good, solid all-rounder Civ who are my go-to when upping difficulty level. They might not be the best or the most fun Civ in the game to play, but they are one of the most balanced.

    Egypt... what can I say? I didn't really want to downvote them as the wonder production bonus is utterly awesome, but even that doesn't make up for Burial Tombs and War Chariots. Also, the personality of AI Ramesses is one of the most infuriating.

    I'm shocked that Sweden are on the verge of going out this early, but I'm not going to upvote them as I've never played as them.
     
  16. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    Arabia 26 (-2)
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 18
    Carthage 23 (+1)
    China 24
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 12
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 1

    Carthage, same as everything I've said before, too much going for them, with my favorite being the free harbors for early production and trade routes.

    Arabia gets my down vote today just because they are easy mode. It's a nice security blanket when moving up, but using them almost feels like cheating and playing with them is playing with an endless lux and gold mine from which to harvest, as they tend to play nice.
     
  17. loki75

    loki75 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    83
    Arabia 26
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16 (-2)
    Carthage 23
    China 24
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13 (+1)
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 1

    Byzanthium: sure, the chick's good looking, but what is a bonus enhancer worth when you can't reliably produce faith?
    France: upvoting them again, I feel there are far weaker civs still on-board. 20% attack bonus in foreign land! This comes usually right at the time to puppet my closest neighbour and it's steamrolling against rifleman or great war infantry.
    Sure if you are mostly turtling at higher difficulties with a Tall bias, the UA is kind of underwhelming but it will make you expand and grab policies much quicker in the first 60 turns.
     
  18. maurcus

    maurcus Warlord

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    245
    Arabia 24 (-2) they just don't fit my play style.
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16
    Carthage 23
    China 24
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 2 (+1) they are a good civ that are pretty versatile in the renaissance to industrial age
     
  19. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    What I find off is that both UUs are gunpowder units, and for most of its period of military supremacy, France relied most heavily on superior cavalry, not gunpowder infantry. The Musketeer's fair enough for all that it owes more to Dumas than to history, but the Foreign Legion is a bizarre choice of UU.

    Of course with a civ like France or China the developers are always going to have to make some arbitrary choices - these are countries with a very long continuous history (France is the oldest country in Europe), and without a single discrete 'golden age' that can be identified (unlike other long-lasting countries like Persia, or historically important countries that have only been resurrected in the modern era - such as Greece).

    Great People you generate normally - or from Pisa or Porcelain Tower, come to that - aren't free either. Does the Babylonian GS now increase future GP points? There's no penalty to the Maya UA - you get exactly the same increase in GP cost you would from generating 5 GPs (Admirals and Generals don't increase the GP point count) normally, you just do so more quickly. And there's nothing weak about a civ that gets an Academy a couple of turns after Theology - look how favoured Babylon is for getting the same deal a couple of techs earlier, and without following that up with well-timed GEs or Great Prophets, or the science boost from Pyramids. The only limitation is that you have to select GPs that may not be optimal for your strategy in place of later GPs that might be better, but that's not a restriction that makes the Maya weak - it's one that stops them from being too powerful.

    Bear in mind that a 10% bonus on GP production is meaningless to an AI opponent - AIs never use specialists and don't know how to efficiently generate GPs, so they only tend to gain GPs through Wonders or through gradual accumulation of GP points from Wonders. Also, in a multiplayer game with allies, or single-player with reliable friends, you may well want to give the other civ a bonus that will give them an edge over your rivals without giving them an edge over you (since they only ever get 10%, while the bonus is cumulative for you).

    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 21
    Babylon 22
    Byzantium 16
    Carthage 23
    China 24
    Egypt 6
    England 20
    Ethiopia 16
    France 13
    Greece 22
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 16
    Korea 24
    Maya 25
    Mongolia 12
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 17
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 22
    Russia 22
    Siam 18
    Songhai 1
    Sweden 3

    Sweden: As others have noted, this civ doesn't deserve to go this early. Nor does Songhai, but although they're a long-time favourite of mine, I have to admit that Sweden has a more interesting play style. I like diplo civs, and Sweden is, as others have noted, truly unique in the way it approaches this type of game.

    Arabia: I'm a little wary of downvoting a civ I haven't played, but I do object in principle to ranking a civ highly based on a UB that only works because of bad AI programming. If the game is patched so that AIs either have less free gold or are less willing to spend it, Arabia's fortunes will go right down because, despite a good UU, its UA is not that impressive. A civ that's so dependent on programming quirks - and that is essentially useless in multiplayer - certainly doesn't deserve a place close to the top.
     
  20. maurcus

    maurcus Warlord

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    245
    the foreign legion isn't that bizarre as that is one of the things there most known for these days you here more about the French Foreign Legion then say the Spanish Foreign Legion its just gotten more media hype than almost anything else about the country with the possible exception of the musketeer.
     

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